960 réponses à ce sujet

[Domiel Angelus]

So you think if Bioware made TW3, it would have been the same level of quality that it is? I think not! Not in a million years.

The Witcher is also based on am extremely large amount of pre - existing lore. They may have made it interesting but no matter how you look at it, it's not an original IP. Even If the author disown them about what they did, which is sort of what happened. I would like to see CDPR do a game that's entirely their own lore and see where it fits in the scheme of things. Having a large portion of your background filled out for you would certainly allow anyone to tweak the little bits to their hearts' content.

TW3 would be a heck of a lot different if Team Dragon Age or Team Jade Empire did it because they would probably put more original content in. Better, maybe or maybe not but certainly different.

[Rawgrim]

The Witcher is also based on am extremely large amount of pre - existing lore. They may have made it interesting but no matter how you look at it, it's not an original IP. Even If the author disown them about what they did, which is sort of what happened. I would like to see CDPR do a game that's entirely their own lore and see where it fits in the scheme of things. Having a large portion of your background filled out for you would certainly allow anyone to tweak the little bits to their hearts' content.

TW3 would be a heck of a lot different if Team Dragon Age or Team Jade Empire did it because they would probably put more original content in. Better, maybe or maybe not but certainly different.

 

So was DA. The first game was basically a hack job based on GRRM's books.

[FKA_Servo]

So was DA. The first game was basically a hack job based on GRRM's books.

 

This is a stretch and a half.

[Rawgrim]

This is a stretch and a half.

 

Look at the Warden oath and the Night's Watch oath, and get back to me.

 

Plus they even said they were heavily influenced by A song of Ice and Fire, when they wrote DA:O.

[FKA_Servo]

I'm aware of them. Still a stretch and a half.

 

Plus they even said they were heavily influenced by A song of Ice and Fire, when they wrote DA:O.

 

In tone, sure. Neither the Night Watch nor the wardens are staggeringly original. DA is also a giant inversion of Tolkien's various fantasy tropes.

 

It's not in any way based in "pre-existing" lore though, or a hack job based on GRRM for that matter, which is what you suggested.

[Rawgrim]

I'm aware of them. Still a stretch and a half.

 

Blood magic.

Dragons returning.

Ostagar\the Wall gets attacked by an enemy nobody has seem for thousands of years.

The royal family has dragon blood.

Alistair\Jon Snow is really a bastard with royal blood.

Wilder Folk\Wildlings on the other side of The Wall\Ostagar.

King dies early one. Leaving a power struggle for the throne.

Darkspawn taint\being touched by the White Walkers

[midnight tea]

The Witcher is also based on am extremely large amount of pre - existing lore. They may have made it interesting but no matter how you look at it, it's not an original IP. Even If the author disown them about what they did, which is sort of what happened. I would like to see CDPR do a game that's entirely their own lore and see where it fits in the scheme of things. Having a large portion of your background filled out for you would certainly allow anyone to tweak the little bits to their hearts' content.

TW3 would be a heck of a lot different if Team Dragon Age or Team Jade Empire did it because they would probably put more original content in. Better, maybe or maybe not but certainly different.

 

Let's not forget as well that - aside from the fact that this is a story with fixed-protagonist (not a bad thing, but certainly different) TW3 has more in common with ME3 in that it is a conclusion to the story (both the trilogy of the games as well as CDPRs attempt at writing conclusion to Sapkowski's books), rather than yet another open-ended part we're yet to see conclusion to, which has significant influence on how story is constructed and how many choices we can either make or see fully realized (in the game itself or any future installment).

 

 

So was DA. The first game was basically a hack job based on GRRM's books.

 

It's still an original "hack job" - it's not a story directly based on GRRM's books.

 

 

Look at the Warden oath and the Night's Watch oath, and get back to me.

 

Both Night Watch and Gray Wardens are based on the same fantasy trope - that doesn't yet make them a direct rip-off.

[midnight tea]

Blood magic.

Dragons returning.

Ostagar\the Wall gets attacked by an enemy nobody has seem for thousands of years.

The royal family has dragon blood.

Alistair\Jon Snow is really a bastard with royal blood.

Wilder Folk\Wildlings on the other side of The Wall\Ostagar.

King dies early one. Leaving a power struggle for the throne.

Darkspawn taint\being touched by the White Walkers

 

Lol, those are popular fantasy tropes, not a list of things only GRRM has in his books.

[Ariella]

I'm aware of them. Still a stretch and a half.

 

 

In tone, sure. Neither the Night Watch nor the wardens are staggeringly original. DA is also a giant inversion of Tolkien's various fantasy tropes.

 

It's not in any way based in "pre-existing" lore though, or a hack job based on GRRM for that matter, which is what you suggested.

 

I thought the consensus was it was a hackjob based on Wheel of Time... Not Song of Ice and Fire.

[Ariella]

 

Alistair\Jon Snow is really a bastard with royal blood.

.

King dies early one. Leaving a power struggle for the throne.

 

 

Wait... I know this one... King Arthur...

[FKA_Servo]

I thought the consensus was it was a hackjob based on Wheel of Time... Not Song of Ice and Fire.

 

I've never read Wheel of Time, so I can't comment on that. I can see the tone in DAO taking some cues from ASoIF, but it's pretty standard high fantasy stuff otherwise. I like their spin on it overall (I much prefer the setting and lore in DA to GRRM's books, for that matter).

 

 

Snip

 

Ostagar\the Wall gets attacked by an enemy nobody has seem for thousands of years - a few hundred maybe, but not the legendary scaries that the walkers are. Everyone knows what dark spawn are.

 

Alistair\Jon Snow is really a bastard with royal blood - still conjecture, I'd say. Unless you know something everyone else doesn't.

 

Wilder Folk\Wildlings on the other side of The Wall\Ostagar - not sure the Wall and Ostagar are at all equivalent, but ok. Same as the wildfolk in Tolkien, at any rate.

Meh on everything else.

[Rawgrim]

Lol, those are popular fantasy tropes, not a list of things only GRRM has in his books.

 

GRRM put them all together in ONE story, though. and Bioware did say HIS books were a huge inspiration. They never mentioned other writers. Plus you also have how these tropes fit together, in the same way they fit together in GRRM's books.

[Rawgrim]

I've never read Wheel of Time, so I can't comment on that. I can see the tone in DAO taking some cues from ASoIF, but it's pretty standard high fantasy stuff otherwise. I like their spin on it overall (I much prefer the setting and lore in DA to GRRM's books, for that matter).

 

 

 

Ostagar\the Wall gets attacked by an enemy nobody has seem for thousands of years - a few hundred maybe, but not the legendary scaries that the walkers are. Everyone knows what dark spawn are.

 

Alistair\Jon Snow is really a bastard with royal blood - still conjecture, I'd say. Unless you know something everyone else doesn't.

 

Wilder Folk\Wildlings on the other side of The Wall\Ostagar - not sure the Wall and Ostagar are at all equivalent, but ok. Same as the wildfolk in Tolkien, at any rate.

Meh on everything else.

 

Everyone knows what White Walkers are too. They just don't believe they excisted.

 

Everybody knows Jon is the son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen.

 

The wilders\wildlings are also fleeing from the darkspawn\white walkers.

[midnight tea]

 

Wait... I know this one... King Arthur...

 

Everything is  a rip-off of Arthurian legends and old myths! Oh, the tragedy! The disgrace! Fantasy authors (and other creators, really) shamelessly ripping off of one another since the dawn of time! Those hack-job with not an ounce of original ideas!!

 

*cries eyes out*

[FKA_Servo]

Everybody knows Jon is the son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen.

 

 

I don't know that for sure. I'm aware that it's a popular fan theory.

 

Although to be fair, books four and five are like homework, so if it was in there, it might have gone past me.

[Rawgrim]

 

 

 

Everything is  a rip-off of Arthurian legends and old myths! Oh, the tragedy! The disgrace! Fantasy authors (and other creators, really) shamelessly ripping off of one another since the dawn of time! Those hack-job with not an ounce of original ideas!!

 

*cries eyes out*

 

 

Myths fall under public domain. You can use it freely for all your future books. The same way you can also use cars in your books, or horses. Educate yourself.

 

Original work falls under intellectual property. So you can't put Rivendell in one of your books, or Winterfell.

[Rawgrim]

I don't know that for sure. I'm aware that it's a popular fan theory.

 

Although to be fair, books four and five are like homework, so if it was in there, it might have gone past me.

 

Jon can Warg. A Stark trait.

[midnight tea]

Myths fall under public domain. You can use it freely for all your future books. The same way you can also use cars in your books, or horses. Educate yourself.

 

So do fantasy tropes, genius.

[FKA_Servo]

Jon can Warg. A Stark trait.

 

...which still fits what we know about him (or think we know, at any rate) from the beginning?

[Ariella]

I've never read Wheel of Time, so I can't comment on that. I can see the tone in DAO taking some cues from ASoIF, but it's pretty standard high fantasy stuff otherwise. I like their spin on it overall (I much prefer the setting and lore in DA to GRRM's books, for that matter).

That was the standard "DA isn't original" line a few years back. I'd tried to read GRRM's books, and I can see, in a technical sense he's a very good writer. I just don't like his style. And I've tried... really...
 
 

Ostagar\the Wall gets attacked by an enemy nobody has seem for thousands of years - a few hundred maybe, but not the legendary scaries that the walkers are. Everyone knows what dark spawn are.

Jim Butcher uses something similar in his Codex Alera books. The Wall keeps out the Ice Men. Of course both walls are inspired by either Hadrian's Wall or the Great Wall of China, so not exactly new idea.

As for Ostagar being like the Wall... I'm not sure where Rawgrim gets that. I guess Ostagar was built to keep an eye on the Chasind but it was abandoned, unlike The Wall, and the darkspawn showing up there was a coincidence.

[Rawgrim]

So do fantasy tropes, genius.

 

Yes but each author has their own twist on it. Their own fingerprint. So if you copy a story word for word, and just rename the character names etc, it is plaguerism. The story itself isn't a trope. Tropes are bits you use to make a story, or to spice it up. Like the classic dragon sleeping on a pile of gold. Or a wise old wizard\mentor.

[Rawgrim]

...which still fits what we know about him (or think we know, at any rate) from the beginning?

 

Yes but he isn't Ned's kid. That leave Lyanna.

 

You might also want to have a look at Meera Reed. Looks exactly like Jon Snow (same hair etc). Behaves like Lyanna did when she was younger. Born the same year as Jon (also the same year Lyanna died). And Howland Reed and Ned Stark were the only survivors that left The Tower of Joy, where Lyanna died (in a bloody bed. Messy childbirth).

[FKA_Servo]

That was the standard "DA isn't original" line a few years back. I'd tried to read GRRM's books, and I can see, in a technical sense he's a very good writer. I just don't like his style. And I've tried... really...

 

I went into them grumpy, thinking I wasn't really going to like them (this was several years ago, and I was in a real China Mieville scene. Kinda done with most high fantasy).

 

I enjoyed the first three books very much. I still prefer China Mieville though, and I'm still sorta done with most high fantasy, otherwise. They're worth soldiering through, for the most part.

 

(China Mieville scene meaning that I generally agree with his POV on the stuff. The guy hates Tolkien - I think I just aged past Tolkien).

[Rawgrim]

That was the standard "DA isn't original" line a few years back. I'd tried to read GRRM's books, and I can see, in a technical sense he's a very good writer. I just don't like his style. And I've tried... really...
 
 

Jim Butcher uses something similar in his Codex Alera books. The Wall keeps out the Ice Men. Of course both walls are inspired by either Hadrian's Wall or the Great Wall of China, so not exactly new idea.

As for Ostagar being like the Wall... I'm not sure where Rawgrim gets that. I guess Ostagar was built to keep an eye on the Chasind but it was abandoned, unlike The Wall, and the darkspawn showing up there was a coincidence.

 

 

Bioware said DA:O was HEAVILY INFLUENCED by GRRM's book. That was their own words. That is what I am getting at. Just pointing out where you can see similarities. Blatant similarities.

[midnight tea]

Yes but each author has their own twist on it. Their own fingerprint. So if you copy a story word for word, and just rename the character names etc, it is plaguerism. The story itself isn't a trope. Tropes are bits you use to make a story, or to spice it up. Like the classic dragon sleeping on a pile of gold. Or a wise old wizard\mentor.

 

Or dragons returning. Or an ancient/forgotten threat attacking. Or walls or other huge/impressive constructs meant to protect from either this ancient threat or something else. O kings dying early and leaving bastards. Et caetera, et caetera...