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[Br3admax]

Wouldn't discourage anyone, though. The overwhelming majority of the unwashed masses who play these games don't clamor for changes of any sort on teh 4umz, either. We here are a minority.

 

I can't fathom how adding more choice or more customization is a bad thing in any sort of game that professes to be a RPG. And being able to choose your gender or appearance doesn't preclude having a strong personality or well-developed backstory.

Well, and this may come as a shock to you, but production works on a curve. You cannot work on everything at maximum capacity, so yes adding in MORE(Because isn't that a fun word to italicize) options in will definitely hurt somewhere else. As my economics teacher used to say: It's all about Guns and Butter. You can produce more of one, but it means less of another. Adding in options that have no economic benefit, especially for a small studio like CPR does nothing. BioWare doesn't need to worry about that problem because they already exist on the part of the curve that they are comfortable with. 

[Zazzerka]

Story-wise, I find The Witcher's story convoluted and hard to follow.  My boyfriend actually stopped and restarted for that reason.  He has numerous complaints about the gameplay, as well, with XP being hard to come by and sudden jumps in the static levels of the enemy. 

 

Your boyfriend is a scrub.

[Steelcan]

 

 

A male power fantasy could exist fine with Geralt leaving diseased pregnant women all over... whatever it's called (Temeria?). That he is a relatively risk free option is probably the closest Witcher gets to interesting gender discussion.

Are we gonna ignore when he gets used for sex by other people?

[Rifneno]

Are we gonna ignore when he gets used for sex by other people?

Sure, we're also going to ignore that Dragon Age ripped the hell off of Witcher to begin with.

Faction of monster-killers with a secretive initation. They have to drink something vile that's immensely painful and it outright kills most of the candidates and leaves the rest sterile. But it's necessary to hunt these powerful but mindless abominations that plague the world. They're forbidden from getting involved in politics because it's important they be able to go where they're needed.

Now is this pretty damn specific speech about Witchers.. or Gray Wardens?

[Milan92]

Are we gonna ignore when he gets used for sex by other people?

 

Nah, the fact that females use him for sex is fine. Its only rape when a male uses a woman.

[Hydwn]

so what I'm seeing is not only have you not actually played the game, you are ignoring vast amounts of it, and throwing in things like "deconstruction" as if they are objective goods (ignoring that just because there are dwarves with Scottish accents that doesn't mean anything in terms of deconstruction)

 

Objective?  None of this is objective.  All these things mentioned are matters of personal preference.

 

The Scottish accents thing was flippant, but it is a cosmetic signal that there's little self-consciousness about the genre among their dev team.  So much of what DA does is consciously engage with the tropes of "elf" and "dwarf" and "mage" in fantasy.  They try to play the story differently, and explore what these things would mean in a psychological and politically realistic environment.  I just see my old D&D games and the cliched novels that went along with them whenever I hear the Witcher's world.  I don't see anything fresh here.

 

Personal preference, of course, but I've sene dozens of hours of this game.  Origins hooked me instantly.

[RINNZ]

Nah, the fact that females use him for sex is fine. Its only rape when a male uses a woman.

That's a joke, right?

Not trying to be a ****, I really can't tell.

[Steelcan]

Objective?  None of this is objective.  All these things mentioned are matters of personal preference.

 

The Scottish accents thing was flippant, but it is a cosmetic signal that there's little self-consciousness about the genre among their dev team.  So much of what DA does is consciously engage with the tropes of "elf" and "dwarf" and "mage" in fantasy.  They try to play the story differently, and explore what these things would mean in a psychological and politically realistic environment.  I just see my old D&D games and the cliched novels that went along with them whenever I hear the Witcher's world.  I don't see anything fresh here.

 

Personal preference, of course, but I've sene dozens of hours of this game.  Origins hooked me instantly.

Good to know that you've either never played a DA game and seen them do the same rote material with dwarves. elves, and mages or you have no idea about the lore in the Witcher universe

[Milan92]

That's a joke, right?

Not trying to be a ****, I really can't tell.

 

Yes that was sarcasm.

[FKA_Servo]

I love being able to make my own character but the problem with that is there are characters I simply won't make. I like playing defined characters as well because I get to experience other characters.

 

Again though... just for example, take Hawke. Hawke is pre-defined to the point that it's a dealbreaker for a lot of people around here who hate that. Additionally, in my lurking, I've seen lots of people here who say straight up that they'd be more interested in TW games if they could redesign their protagonist. If you're concerned about playing characters you simply "won't make" - that's on you I guess. My impression is that there are no shortage of fixed protagonist games that force you to play characters like Geralt, to be honest.

 

From my experience with TW games (admittedly limited to the first two), there's nothing about that approach that would contradict the gameplay, story, or setting. It would throw a wrench into things if they dropped it in the third game, but again... coulda woulda shoulda.

 

(Though Saints Row did this with the PC there, dropping a character creator in the second game... but then I wouldn't hold up Saints Row as an example of coherence, either.)

[BioWareM0d13]

 

But for me, the clincher is Geralt himself.  I don't like him.  He's a thirteen-year-old boy's power fantasy.  With boys-only clubhouse of powers that include perfect birth control and immunity to STIs - he's a mutant for consequence-free sex! - and that breathy voice that bad action-movie voice that sounds like he's having breathing problems.  There's even a section in the strat guide about all the women he can have sex with!  

 

 

I can't comment on the strategy guide, but I have to disagree with the bolded. Geralt was not created by CD Projekt Red but was an existing character from a popular fantasy book series. The purpose of his sterility was not not for some sort of teenaged male power fantasy (after all, he isn't being controlled by a player in the books) but as a part of a common bond between him and Yennefer, who is his love interest in the books. The effects of magic have also rendered her infertile, and its a major issue for her psychologically. 

 

Having said that I do find even book Geralt to be a bit of a Mary Sue at times in the romance department. Too many female characters immediately swoon over him, with barely effort on his part. I could accept that if he was the Northern Kingdoms version of Rhaeger Targaryen or Jaime Lannister, but he's not. He's described as someone who looks like a mutant and a freak and has diminished emotions and a brusque and standoffish demeanor, not the realm's most handsome or charming man. There is a bit of male wish fulfillment in that he can practically bed any woman he choses despite flaws that should get in the way of that.

 

Having said that, I still found TW2 to be a superior game to DA2 and TW3 to be superior game to DA:I. The last two Witcher games aren't without their flaws, but I thought they had less of them than the DA game that released around the same time. DA:O however was a much better game than the first Witcher. 

[FKA_Servo]

Sure, we're also going to ignore that Dragon Age ripped the hell off of Witcher to begin with.

Faction of monster-killers with a secretive initation. They have to drink something vile that's immensely painful and it outright kills most of the candidates and leaves the rest sterile. But it's necessary to hunt these powerful but mindless abominations that plague the world. They're forbidden from getting involved in politics because it's important they be able to go where they're needed.

Now is this pretty damn specific speech about Witchers.. or Gray Wardens?

 

Or the Night's Watch.

 

It's not like it's a staggeringly original idea in the first place. Plus, I have my doubts that an obscure Polish fantasy series loomed large in their inspiration in 2003 when they were brainstorming this stuff. Of course, I could be wrong.

[goofyomnivore]

But for me, the clincher is Geralt himself.  I don't like him.  He's a thirteen-year-old boy's power fantasy.  With boys-only clubhouse of powers that include perfect birth control and immunity to STIs - he's a mutant for consequence-free sex! - and that breathy voice that bad action-movie voice that sounds like he's having breathing problems.  There's even a section in the strat guide about all the women he can have sex with!  

 

It feels one giant leap below DAI's relationships in terms of maturity.

 

 

To be fair tho many of the women in the Witcher story are infertile due to magic, and I assume STDs aren't a problem either with how powerful magic is. Also many of the women engage the sex or bring it up. i haven't done all the romances in TW3, but with Yennefer I'd argue it is mutual interest. But Keira outright says she wants to be friends with benefits, and proposes the date, etc.

 

It sounds like you are talking about TW1 because yeah Geralt is some horny teenager in it. I didn't feel that way in TW3, and in TW2 only on Ioverth's path is Geralt kind of looking for sex. Excluding the Triss bath scene in Act 1 anyways. Although Triss has been manipulating Geralt 1 and a third games by then.

 

I thought the Yennefer romance was stronger than any of the DA:I romances. Her romance was on par with Morrigan which imo is the best BioWare romance to date.

[AresKeith]

Sure, we're also going to ignore that Dragon Age ripped the hell off of Witcher to begin with.

Faction of monster-killers with a secretive initation. They have to drink something vile that's immensely painful and it outright kills most of the candidates and leaves the rest sterile. But it's necessary to hunt these powerful but mindless abominations that plague the world. They're forbidden from getting involved in politics because it's important they be able to go where they're needed.

Now is this pretty damn specific speech about Witchers.. or Gray Wardens?

 

And the Witchers weren't the first to do it either so it's not like "DA is ripping off the Witcher"

 

Grey Wardens are closer to the Night's Watch than they are Witchers 

[Br3admax]

 i haven't done all the romances in TW3, but with Yennefer I'd argue it is mutual interest.

Lulz. They've been together for 20 years. I don't think you need to argue there's mutual interest.

 

Or the Night's Watch.

The Night Watch sounds nothing like what was posted. They all fight monsters and aren't supposed to have kids. That's about it. 

[KilrB]

...really? DA:I's animation felt extremely stiff to me, as is usually the case with BioWare games unfortunately...whereas there were many occasions in TW3 where I was really impressed by how well CDPR nailed the animation, facial animations particularly. Some scenes are made immeasurably better just because of the beautifully subtle emotions you can see flash across Geralt's face...whereas there weren't very many points in DA:I where such a thing happened. TW3 uses mocap, to boot. 

 

The scene in TE3 where the "traveling merchant" tries to convince you there's someone behind you ... priceless.

[Milan92]

 

But for me, the clincher is Geralt himself.  I don't like him.  He's a thirteen-year-old boy's power fantasy.  With boys-only clubhouse of powers that include perfect birth control and immunity to STIs - he's a mutant for consequence-free sex! - and that breathy voice that bad action-movie voice that sounds like he's having breathing problems.  There's even a section in the strat guide about all the women he can have sex with!  

 

Beign a Witcher is not as romantic as most people think.

[Milan92]

I can't comment on the strategy guide, but I have to disagree with the bolded. Geralt was not created by CD Projekt Red but was an existing character from a popular fantasy book series. The purpose of his sterility was not not for some sort of teenaged male power fantasy (after all, he isn't being controlled by a player in the books) but as a part of a common bond between him and Yennefer, who is his love interest in the books. The effects of magic have also rendered her infertile, and its a major issue for her psychologically. 

 

Oh! Can you tell me some more about that?

 

Just send it in a PM so that the thread won't get derailed.

[FKA_Servo]

 

The Night Watch sounds nothing like what was posted. They all fight monsters and aren't supposed to have kids. That's about it. 

 

Potayto, potahto, Night's Watch, Grey Wardens. They're both apolitical secret organizations formed to defend the common folk from some sort of nasty menace. I don't think there's any meaningful distinction between "sterile" versus "forbidden from having kids" in context. And no, not too different from witchers, in my view.
 

[Rifneno]

And the Witchers weren't the first to do it either so it's not like "DA is ripping off the Witcher"
 
Grey Wardens are closer to the Night's Watch than they are Witchers

Never heard of Night's Watch. But since DA also takes Witcher's rather unique take on elves, that being with them being ugly, living in slums, and under constant persecution as opposed to the Tolkien-esque interpretation seen in almost every other fantasy involves elves... yeah, I'd say DA is definitely ripping off Witcher.

[AresKeith]

Never heard of Night's Watch. But since DA also takes Witcher's rather unique take on elves, that being with them being ugly, living in slums, and under constant persecution as opposed to the Tolkien-esque interpretation seen in almost every other fantasy involves elves... yeah, I'd say DA is definitely ripping off Witcher.

 

Ok? Still it's not like it's an original idea that only the Witcher came up with

[Steelcan]

Never heard of Night's Watch. But since DA also takes Witcher's rather unique take on elves, that being with them being ugly, living in slums, and under constant persecution as opposed to the Tolkien-esque interpretation seen in almost every other fantasy involves elves... yeah, I'd say DA is definitely ripping off Witcher.

Night's Watch is ASoIaF/GoT

 

an order founded to guard the realms of men against the Others

[Br3admax]

Potayto, potahto, Night's Watch, Grey Wardens. They're both apolitical secret organizations formed to defend the common folk from some sort of nasty menace. I don't think there's any meaningful distinction between "sterile" versus "forbidden from having kids" in context. And no, not too different from witchers, in my view.
 

They're different in every single way, especially considering the magical and unknown process that brings them about, where as saying, "NO, BAD!" doesn't mean anything. That aside, you cannot "ripoff" fantasy and fiction, unless you copy it word for word. 

 

Night's Watch is ASoIaF/GoT

 

an order founded to guard the realms of men against the Others

Pfft. The Others aren't even real. 

[goofyomnivore]

I'd say Witchers are pretty unique. Grey Wardens and the Night's Watch are very similar tho. Both are necessary enigmas that take in whoever they can. Sometimes they get unwanted children/heirs. They pretty much are left on their own, and only interact with society when required.

 

Witchers pretty much only took orphans, and are vital/healthy parts of society. Their secrets are kept well secret, but when they get on the Path they become professionals working in society.. The Night's Watch and Grey Wardens are bound to their guild/organizations activities.

[FKA_Servo]

Ok? Still it's not like it's an original idea that only the Witcher came up with

 

In fact, it's pretty easy to arrive there if you're rejecting the hammy standards popularized by Tolkien's influences. I am comfortable saying that they arrived here independently. Besides, outside of the alienages, DA elves are still pretty friggin' Tolkien. They're not supposed to be "ugly" in lore, that's for sure.

 

DA subverts Tolkien a bit and takes a bunch of influence from GoT. I'm sure it draws influence from all sorts of other places, but really don't think that it was specifically inspired by The Witcher. Again, were TW books even translated like, 15 years ago?