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[Eternal Phoenix]

 

Job done.

[Black Jimmy]

Stop blowing up the middle east for there own agenda and causing nutters like ISIS to surface.

 

If we'd just left when we should have, then ISIS probably wouldn't have formed.

[Giant ambush beetle]

Apparently the world is going to sit on its hands and wait for this whole thing to blow over.
There is no other explanation, think about it, even military mights that spend several hundred billion dollars on their defense forces each freaking year cannot root out and defeat a bunch of ill equipped ill trained farmers who have no heavy weapons to speak of nor even the intellect required to properly handle the simplest handguns.
 

Stop blowing up the middle east for there own agenda and causing nutters like ISIS to surface.
 
If we'd just left when we should have, then ISIS probably wouldn't have formed.

 
There will always be some form of ISIS, such ''groups'' are the melting pots for all those who cannot deal with life and simply want an excuse to finally give in to their primitive desires for rape, murder and violence. 
There is plenty of those people and they will always gather for some excuse they call a ''holy war'' or whatever.
White extremists, Arian Brotherhood, sects, you name it. ISIS will be gone sooner or later only to be replaced by something else, but very similar.

[Jehuty]

Stop blowing up the middle east for there own agenda and causing nutters like ISIS to surface.

 

If we'd just left when we should have, then ISIS probably wouldn't have formed.

Actually ISIS was formed because of us. Think about it. We move in, bomb Iraq's military, screw everything up the like and get pulled out like nothing happened. They resent us, so of course someone is going to take up arms against us. 

 

If anything, we need to deal with the problem we created. We can easily steam roll them with our full military might right now. It won't be so easy years from now when they have control of Syria and Iraq and have a sizable military, with each and every one of their fighters ready to fight zealously and die for their God. 

 

We need to do something about them soon. But of course, we have a complete joke in the white house and congress. 

[Draining Dragon]

The US shouldn't have left Iraq without cleaning up our mess. However, groups like ISIS will always exist. The Middle East is a train wreck, and not all of it is due to foreign meddling. We just need to take out these groups as they form, before they can get any real power.

[slimgrin]

Stop blowing up the middle east for there own agenda and causing nutters like ISIS to surface.

 

If we'd just left when we should have, then ISIS probably wouldn't have formed.

 

Lol, no. Those religious nutters will always find an excuse to blow up the infidel. Islam is the gift that keeps on giving when it comes to violence.

[Commander Rpg]

Lol, no. Those religious nutters will always find an excuse to blow up the infidel. Islam is the gift that keeps on giving when it comes to violence.

Sounds like there's always a good excuse to bomb, most nostably to get resources and dominate vital spots export peace and democracy.

[Jehuty]

Lol, no. Those religious nutters will always find an excuse to blow up the infidel. Islam is the gift that keeps on giving when it comes to violence.

Pretty much any religion, but it's the zealots and the indoctrinated that are the problem. But regardless, a terrorist is a terrorist. 

[Commander Rpg]

Pretty much any religion, but it's the zealots and the indoctrinated that are the problem. But regardless, a terrorist is a terrorist. 

Especially certain presidents.

[slimgrin]

Sounds like there's always a good excuse to bomb, most nostably to get resources and dominate vital spots export peace and democracy.

 

Resources my ass. You saying there's not a humanitarian reason to destroy Isis?This is the lamest libtard cry baby response I've seen for at least a week. Been staying away from CNN,

[Eternal Phoenix]

Pretty much any religion, but it's the zealots and the indoctrinated that are the problem. But regardless, a terrorist is a terrorist. 

 

Yeah I'm still recoiling backwards in shock over that Christian zealot who just blew up my local supermarket and that Hindu mad woman who shot 10 kiddies dead in my local school. Both on the same day. How mad is that?

 

http://www.telegraph...-christian.html

http://www.telegraph...-terrorist.html

 

 

Lol, no. Those religious nutters will always find an excuse to blow up the infidel. Islam is the gift that keeps on giving when it comes to violence.

 

The Crusaders should have ended them while they had the chance. If the Middle East belonged to the Europeans, perhaps there wouldn't be this many problems. We've had all these problems before, when the Seljuk Empire started taking land that wasn't their's and beheading European travellers. It's sad that even after nearly a 1,000 years, their methods and behaviour haven't changed at all. The only difference is that ISIS is not an empire.

[bEVEsthda]

There will always be some form of ISIS, such ''groups'' are the melting pots for all those who cannot deal with life and simply want an excuse to finally give in to their primitive desires for rape, murder and violence. 
There is plenty of those people and they will always gather for some excuse they call a ''holy war'' or whatever.
White extremists, Arian Brotherhood, sects, you name it. ISIS will be gone sooner or later only to be replaced by something else, but very similar.

 

Correction: There will always be recruits for "such groups".

 

These things do not just pop into existence and relevance. Your example, Arian Brotherhood lacks relevance. There's always somebody, a power & economy , behind it. In the case of Baader-Meinhof, it was the East German "intelligence arm", supported by Bulgaria's "intelligence" arm for Brigate Rossi. Without all the information & planning service they received, these terrorist cells would not have been able to do anything effective. Without the money from, and protection in their base countries, the police would have wrapped them up quickly. Their eventual undoing was not the result of police or changes in the west, but changes in the east, the fall of the "iron curtain".

 

It's the same with Islamists. It started with Khomeini's Iran organizing and financing things like Hezbollah, and a lot of other trouble. At the other end, opposite end of Islamists, we have the Sunni Wahhabists, strong in Pakistan, strong and rich in Saudi Arabia. Now, some of the origins of IS/ISIS is probably, originally, terrorist cells set up and organized by Syria's military intelligence, in an effort to fragment and stop any democratic development in Iraq, but mainly they are a product of the rich Wahhabists in the Gulf states and Saudi Arabia. Turkey, currently ruled by an Islamic party, even as they now pretend to oppose IS, as they arrest and bomb mostly Kurds, has had a hand in supporting IS/ISIS and thwarting international efforts to do anything effective about them, just as there is a strong support structure for IS in Turkey, among Turkish Islamists, which the Turkish government seem more to rather support than do anything about. Al Quaida, Taliban, is all part of a schizophrenic Pakistan military and government. Has always been. The war in Afghanistan is a war waged by one side of a divided Pakistan. It cannot be ended or won in Afghanistan.

 

Meanwhile, Saudi Wahhabists have financed and set up so called Quran schools all over the illiterate and poor world, to brainwash and raise young, fanatic Islamists. They have also sent "Mullahs" into the West, in the trail of Muslim refugees, to threaten, "police" Islamic population groups, preach hate and brainwash. Particularly interested in young criminals, which have now become the favored recruit for IS/ISIS.

 

The true enemy, is hiding and flourishing inside US "allies", Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Turkey, and using money and technology from America. While the Shia Iran is their enemy, I think they mostly got the idea from the activities of Khomeini's post-revolution Iran. "If they can, we can".

[bEVEsthda]

But yeah, let's just call all Muslims barbarians that should be nuked and not consider that this entire thing is The West's cruel and bloodthirsty actions that sent the whole region to the crapper in the first place.

 

I somewhat fail to see what those "cruel and bloodthirsty actions" could be, particularly on the scale and yardstick in context here, ...but that's not really what I want to discuss.

 

More the failure to distinguish between Islamists and Muslims/Islam in this thread. In a way understandable, since many Muslims' great sin these days is that many of them also fail to see the difference. And they also fail in their holy duty, Jihad, to keep their religion clean. All because of their enmity towards the West, usually based on murky motivations, inferiority/superiority complex, jealousy, cultural/ethnic racism, a patriarchal/tribal culture's resistance to change, shameless Al Jazeera propaganda...

 

But the difference between Islamists and Islam is as great as the difference between Nazis and Christianity.

Islamists have a political agenda, their Islam is a political ideology, not strictly a religion, even if it springs from a religion and uses religion as justification. It must use religion, since there cannot be any rational justification. Religion is always good for that. "I am right, because God says so". "If you're against me, you're God's enemy and must die". But it's not really what religion is.

[Fast Jimmy]

I somewhat fail to see what those "cruel and bloodthirsty actions" could be, particularly on the scale and yardstick in context here, ...but that's not really what I want to discuss.

More the failure to distinguish between Islamists and Muslims/Islam in this thread. In a way understandable, since many Muslims' great sin these days is that many of them also fail to see the difference. And they also fail in their holy duty, Jihad, to keep their religion clean. All because of their enmity towards the West, usually based on murky motivations, inferiority/superiority complex, jealousy, cultural/ethnic racism, a patriarchal/tribal culture's resistance to change, shameless Al Jazeera propaganda...

But the difference between Islamists and Islam is as great as the difference between Nazis and Christianity.
Islamists have a political agenda, their Islam is a political ideology, not strictly a religion, even if it springs from a religion and uses religion as justification. It must use religion, since there cannot be any rational justification. Religion is always good for that. "I am right, because God says so". "If you're against me, you're God's enemy and must die". But it's not really what religion is.

I refer to the way the West, following World War 1 and 2, carved up the Ottoman Empire like it was a piece of Salisbury steak and slapped crippling economic sanctions in the region that crippled it for over a century, leading to a complete lack of progress, stability and infrastructure, all for wars Europeans started and which massively outpace anything Islamists have done in terms of scope, cruelty and barbarism.

The dismantling of the Ottoman Empire was single stupidest mistake Europe ever made. And that's saying something, given millenia of baffling dumb ideas.


Islamists aren't alone with co-opting religion for their use. You bring up Nazis and Christianity, but Republicans wouldn't even be a real party any longer if they had not taken up the banner of Christian values (as well as the losing side of the Civil Rights debate) back in the 60's, converting the South froma predominantly Democratic region to a Republican base.

Today, Christian conservatives scream for us to attack ISIS, but continue to turn a blind eye to Christians committing ethnic cleansing in Africa. Not are they raising hackles about Christians being killed by Muslim or other groups in Africa or Asia. It's only when dangerous Muslims exist on countries with oil that suddenly does this mantle of "Christianity must stop these evils" comes into play. If that's not co-opting religion for political purposes, I don't know what is.

[bEVEsthda]

As for the question of this thread: Why should the world do something about IS/ISIS?

I think that is a question that must be asked. Why shouldn't the world do something about Syria? Why shouldn't the world do anything about Saddam Hussein? (yes, US did, but hardly with the world approval). Why shouldn't the world do anything about North Korea?

But now, suddenly, they should do something about IS/ISIS? Why?

[Display Name Owner]

Lol, no. Those religious nutters will always find an excuse to blow up the infidel. Islam is the gift that keeps on giving when it comes to violence.

 

I wouldn't say our governments handing them that excuse on a golden platter is exactly helping. You don't think the way the West has been toying around with the Middle East was asking for some kind of backlash?

 

Edit - to be clear, I'm not in any way shape or form trying to justify what any of these groups are doing. Just saying, that overly simplistic approach of "Islam's the problem" is ridiculous. The US and UK opened the door for a lot of this.

[bEVEsthda]

I refer to the way the West, following World War 1 and 2, carved up the Ottoman Empire like it was a piece of Salisbury steak and slapped crippling economic sanctions in the region that crippled it for over a century, leading to a complete lack of progress, stability and infrastructure, all for wars Europeans started and which massively outpace anything Islamists have done in terms of scope, cruelty and barbarism.

The dismantling of the Ottoman Empire was single stupidest mistake Europe ever made. And that's saying something, given millenia of baffling dumb ideas.

 

Come now, Europe this, West that...

 

The wars that European states has waged against themselves certainly dwarf most things in pure scale. But "cruel and bloodthirsty"?

You want to make the West responsible for Nazism, Lenin-Stalinism? I beg your pardon, but I see it much differently, the West defeated these ideologies. Volunteered and shouldered the burden to do so.

 

As for British imperial ambitions, I reject to make "West" responsible for that, just as much as I reject Soviet/Russian, French, German and Swedish trade with Saddam (pre-Kuwait) (Soviet/Russia, France sold the weapons, Germany built the bunkers and structures, Sweden sold the trucks) being called "Western support for Saddam", as certain left-wing journalists always do, in their hope that people will interpret/read it as "US support", which remarkably many of them do. Besides that, I don't think that the British empire distinguished itself as particularly "cruel and bloodthirsty". Not in the picture of things.

 

The Ottoman Empire, finally, had been corrupt and mismanaged for centuries before it was dismantled. And I still don't see the dismantling, of this extremely un-democratic, privilegecracy, as "cruel and bloodthirsty". And what if it hadn't been dismantled?

[Fast Jimmy]

As for the question of this thread: Why should the world do something about IS/ISIS?
I think that is a question that must be asked. Why shouldn't the world do something about Syria? Why shouldn't the world do anything about Saddam Hussein? (yes, US did, but hardly with the world approval). Why shouldn't the world do anything about North Korea?
But now, suddenly, they should do something about IS/ISIS? Why?

Because Fox News tells us we need to.

[bEVEsthda]

Islamists aren't alone with co-opting religion for their use. 

 

Of course not. I said religion had always been good for that. Actually, it's my opinion that the mono-theistic religions stems from the invention of exactly that purpose for religion.

[Jock Cranley]

Virtually all the countries in the  area are opposed to ISIS, so I don't see how it could be a significant threat.

[The Devlish Redhead]

Virtually all the countries in the  area are opposed to ISIS, so I don't see how it could be a significant threat.

 

They are all opposed to ISIS but doing jack in terms of fighting them..

[Jock Cranley]

They are all opposed to ISIS but doing jack in terms of fighting them..

They may not need to.

 

If they are isolated and inefficient, they will become a global laughingstock much the way is NK is. 

[bEVEsthda]

Virtually all the countries in the  area are opposed to ISIS, so I don't see how it could be a significant threat.

 

Virtually all the countries in the area are opposed to a democratic and prospering Iraq.

Virtually all the countries in the area are opposed to Shia and Iranian influence.

Virtually all the countries in the area are opposed to Bashar al-Assad's Syria, because he's judged to be in Iran's pocket.

Virtually all the countries in the area are opposed to a Kurdish state or anything looking like a Kurdish power base.

Virtually all the countries in the area have sizable and rich groups of IS/ISIS sympathizers within them.

I'll not even go into how sizable Arab Sunni populations perceive the world, beyond pointing out that - simply by looking victorious in battle, IS has acquired tens of thousands of excited recruits, all dreaming about Muslim and Arab superiority and the annihilation of Israel.

 

On what all the countries in the area will do about IS/ISIS? Well, who knows, maybe we'll one day have reasons to quote Churchill? "They chose between shame and war. They chose shame. And they will have the war."

[Draining Dragon]

They may not need to.
 
If they are isolated and inefficient, they will become a global laughingstock much the way is NK is.

They aren't, they aren't, and they won't. ISIS has been becoming more powerful, not less. We need to do something now before this becomes the next Nazi Germany.

[Jehuty]

They aren't, they aren't, and they won't. ISIS has been becoming more powerful, not less. We need to do something now before this becomes the next Nazi Germany.

If left alone, they'll try to gain control of the entire Mid East. That means plenty of children to indoctrinate and train to be ISIS fighters. Then once they have enough territory and military, they'll declare war on us. That's a prediction of mine.

 

We might as well deal with them before all this can happen, while we still can.