363 réponses à ce sujet

[Degenerate Rakia Time]

call Kung Fury.

no, call David Hesselhoff

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

*sigh* ... Jimmy military march with well supplied rear is around 50km per day for a tank division. now... check Southern Military district, amount of troops there. Please understand one simple truth, if Russian Federation would actually invade Ukraine, there would be no such country as Ukraine in a matter of days.

 

Besides to this moment i saw no hard evidence of presence of Russian troops, Russian Command and Control or any Russian regular units or formations in Ukraine. Despite of Marie Harf or Jeff Rathke claims.

 

There might be Russian commandos in Ukraine though.

Just to keep eastern Ukraine a busy place...

[Jehuty]

At the moment, the US isn't doing much since Obama wants to be remembered for being the president that got us out of the Mid East.

 

Let him get impeached and get someone in there with a set and perhaps get congress on board as well to the "lets kill ISIS" boat.  

[Fast Jimmy]

*sigh* ... Jimmy military march with well supplied rear is around 50km per day for a tank division. now... check Southern Military district, amount of troops there. Please understand one simple truth, if Russian Federation would actually invade Ukraine, there would be no such country as Ukraine in a matter of days.

Besides to this moment i saw no hard evidence of presence of Russian troops, Russian Command and Control or any Russian regular units or formations in Ukraine. Despite of Marie Harf or Jeff Rathke claims.

And the fact that the "Ukranian separatists" attacking people and coercing voters outside ballot halls are using Russian weaponry and speaking in Russian as opposed to Ukranian is just wild coincidence?

If Russia was totally innocent, they would have little trouble shaking off the sanctions with the international community. Yet they risk full scale retaliation from not only the U.S. and the EU for full scale invasion, but also China and India. They have to keep up at least be thin premise that this isn't being perpetrated by the Russian military.

[Killdren88]

As someone who in their youth had to watch the Battle of Fallujah and hope my older brother got out of their okay(He did thankfully) I say if they don't want to have a stable region? Fine. If they want to keep killing each other because of something one tribe did to another tribe a thousand years ago, fine. Let that whole damn region go to hell for all I care. I am so sick of the Middle East its not even funny. 

[Althix]

There might be Russian commandos in Ukraine though.

emmm... most likely situation is rather simple.

 

to some cadre officer or officers, maybe some lower ranks, command from moscow make an offer. resign from army for x amount on time, go to conflict area and assume command there. after conflict is over - these officers will be restored as soldiers of RA with promotions. or something similar.

 

Keep in mind that Eastern part of Ukriane, Donbass is a military rear for western front since USSR. So amount of hand held weapons and ammunitions for these weapons is huge.

So basically all you have to do is to move few experienced people.

 

I have no doubt that Russian officers and staff sergeants are amongst these people fighting against ATO forces.

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

no, call David Hesselhoff

call him what?

[Cyonan]

They'll keep bombing ISIS, but it wont change anything in the long run even if they wiped them out. In a few years there will just be another group, and then another one after that.

 

Humans fighting each other will only end when there's no more humans left to continue the fight.

[General TSAR]

IS eh? Easy, establish and support a dictatorship/Junta and have them turn IS and their collaborators into meat with thermobaric weapons. IS can't be wiped out by following ROE, they need a curb stomp. Unfortunately, the only guy capable of delivering a brutal no-rules curb stomp is now dead.

 

Whoops.

[Vazgen]

I'm not saying Russia is the bad guy or that the US is the good guy... I'm not nearly that naive. But it's silly to think that Russia driving tanks into another country because they didn't like the new leaders wouldn't bring the attention (and condemnation) of the rest of the world.

Yeah, what I'm saying is that economic sanctions will not stop Russia from doing what it's doing (which is pretty apparent by the current situation). And in the long term, they might even end up beneficial for them since they will rely less on trade with US and Europe and more with China and India - which are larger markets. 

 

There might be Russian commandos in Ukraine though.

Just to keep eastern Ukraine a busy place...

There are probably US intelligence agents there as well, training troops etc...

 

However, the topic was about what would the world do with ISIS. The answer is, nothing. The hard truth is that Russia/US tensions mean more to the world than ISIS (for now). If that changes, the world actions against ISIS will soon follow. The reason ISIS has those military successes is because the world doesn't care much and even supports them (selling weapons to resistance in Syria which then end up in ISIS hands). Plus the armies facing them lack discipline and skill. Iraqi army in particular was trained by US more for police operations and are not ready for such a conflict. More so, even the powers in the region don't care much. Iran could've played a decisive factor there but it seems they prefer to watch how Saudi Arabia deals with ISIS and get involved only when the latter are weakened. 

[X Equestris]

Who do you think is funding them?

They're self-sufficient at this point. They tax their subjects and sell oil and stolen antiquities on the black market. During their initial campaigns, they also looted banks. I recall reading that one bank they looted gave them enough money to fund an army of 60,000 men for a year, and that was before they got an economy under their feet.

As for how to stop them, it will ultimately require solid boots on the ground. The Kurds are doing well enough, but Iraq and Syria are having major issues. American and European forces would crush ISIS if they were deployed in sufficient numbers. That's unlikely to happen with the current political situation in the US, though. If Iraq and Syria fall, that brings them up against much harder targets. Israel, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Iran have much tougher militaries. And Israel has nuclear weapons, though they refuse to confirm or deny it. If Israel feels its existence is truly in danger, the Samson option could be deployed, and all of its nukes might be implored.

[Fast Jimmy]

IS eh? Easy, establish and support a dictatorship/Junta and have them turn IS and their collaborators into meat with thermobaric weapons. IS can't be wiped out by following ROE, they need a curb stomp. Unfortunately, the only guy capable of delivering a brutal no-rules curb stomp is now dead.

Whoops.

...Bruce Jenner...?

[General TSAR]

...Bruce Jenner...?

Ha.

 

But seriously, if the coalition didn't disband Saddam's Iraqi Army, or more importantly his Republican Guards, the ISIS horde would have been stopped at the gates of Mosul. 

 

The Republican Guard may suck at conventional warfare, but they know how to put down insurgencies. 

[Althix]

Russian weaponry

look like more than 75% of the world is using russian weaponry. because Aks are very, very, very good tools.

 

If you are talking about coup d'etat in Crimeria. well... yeah. Basically what happened in Crimeria is:

1) Coup d'etat.

2) Executive power in the face of Ukranian Army has been blocked in their bases by Russian Militaty. Because... you know... Russian naval base happened to be there.

3) Referendum as to justify сoup d'etat. sort of... not really helping because annexation still happened.

 

I mean, only ****** would believe that 85% of people of Crimeria were voting for unification with Russia. In my guesses 65%-70% tops. Or to think that Referendum of Crimeria had any legimate basis... i mean come on humans...

 

However Jimmy - coup d'etat in Kiev happened before coup d'etat in Crimeria. As a matter of fact coup d'etat of Crimeria wasn't drowned in blood.

[Vroom Vroom]

So how can the world tackle problems like ISIS?

 

Groups like this scare the bajeezus out of me. They just can't be stopped it seems.

This pretty much sums it up and answers your question posed in the topic title:

 

[Fast Jimmy]

They're self-sufficient at this point. They tax their subjects and sell oil and stolen antiquities on the black market. During their initial campaigns, they also looted banks. I recall reading that one bank they looted gave them enough money to fund an army of 60,000 men for a year, and that was before they got an economy under their feet.

As for how to stop them, it will ultimately require solid boots on the ground. The Kurds are doing well enough, but Iraq and Syria are having major issues. American and European forces would crush ISIS if they were deployed in sufficient numbers. That's unlikely to happen with the current political situation in the US, though. If Iraq and Syria fall, that brings them up against much harder targets. Israel, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Iran have much tougher militaries. And Israel has nuclear weapons, though they refuse to confirm or deny it. If Israel feels its existence is truly in danger, the Samson option could be deployed, and all of its nukes might be implored.

Boots on the ground have never solved a conflict if there is not some form of structure there to provide stability once the enemy surrenders. People are stuck in a WW2 mindset that just doesn't reflect the real world.

Defeating the Germans was simple. Brutally difficult and costly, but simple - beat them into submission, then give back the land to all the countries who they conquered. These countries had national identities, had existing (inactive) governments, previously built infrastructure... all you had to do was kill enough of the invaders and you can go home.

That wasn't the case in Vietnam or Korea, and it's not the case in the Middle East. Send an army with all the military might you can muster and you will easily roll over the opposition (with non-trivial loss of life, I might add). But when the dust settles, there is no one to step in and turn life back to normal for these countries. Democracy doesn't work when a large segment of the population votes to kill each other. Security doesn't happen when the best equipped and trained soldiers prefer to attack the government rather than serve it.

You can't avoid full blown revolt without addressing citizen needs. You can't address citizen needs without infrastructure. You can't build infrastructure without stability. And you can't provide stability without confidence in the government. A country has to be willing to say "yes, we are all Iraqis and although we may disagree, we all want is best for our nation." That's not the sentiment of (nearly) enough people in Iraq. That's why its military and securit forces desert at the slightest hint of resistance. That's why they bomb their own cities and claim to be retaliating against America. That is why they support radicals who execute their own neighbors if they don't pledge allegiance to their caliphate. Because no one is acting like a country.


Like others, I say let ISIS take over. Take over Iraq, take over Syria... take over Iran and Saudia Arabia too. Turn into one large country, devoted to a religious totalitarianism that conveniently ignores its own religion whenever it wants to brutalize those who stand against it. Then we'll see if people would rather fight for their own country or not. Because us fighting for them is clearly not working and has never worked in the past.

[Nethalf]

Will probably collapse on itself due to overextension, if not by outside intervention. Their "five year" plan is hilarious. 

Wants to restore Islamic Caliphate @ Restores Papal State as well

 

Muslim Good Guy Greg

[Fast Jimmy]

Ha.

But seriously, if the coalition didn't disband Saddam's Iraqi Army, or more importantly his Republican Guards, the ISIS horde would have been stopped at the gates of Mosul.

The Republican Guard may suck at conventional warfare, but they know how to put down insurgencies.

Agreed. The biggest mistake of the past 50 years of US foreign policy was dismantling the Iraqi Republican Guard. Hands down the largest tactical error made in recent history.

[Fast Jimmy]

look like more than 75% of the world is using russian weaponry. because Aks are very, very, very good tools.

If you are talking about coup d'etat in Crimeria. well... yeah. Basically what happened in Crimeria is:
1) Coup d'etat.
2) Executive power in the face of Ukranian Army has been blocked in their bases by Russian Militaty. Because... you know... Russian naval base happened to be there.
3) Referendum as to justify сoup d'etat. sort of... not really helping because annexation still happened.

I mean, only ****** would believe that 85% of people of Crimeria were voting for unification with Russia. In my guesses 65%-70% tops. Or to think that Referendum of Crimeria had any legimate basis... i mean come on humans...

However Jimmy - coup d'etat in Kiev happened before coup d'etat in Crimeria. As a matter of fact coup d'etat of Crimeria wasn't drowned in blood.

I'm not sure how you can't look at both and see the same blatant pattern - Russia in absorbing the Ukraine by force and the most threadbare of pretenses. This is the Red Army reforming the USSR all over again.

[Fast Jimmy]

Wants to restore Islamic Caliphate @ Restores Papal State as well

Muslim Good Guy Greg

Psssh. Clearly ISIS is a bunch of Vic 2 scrubs.

[Althix]

I'm not sure how you can't look at both and see the same blatant pattern - Russia in absorbing the Ukraine by force and the most threadbare of pretenses. This is the Red Army reforming the USSR all over again.

sure i can. because laws were broken in both cases. and people in Kiev have no rights to rule what's left of the country. same situation in Crimeria, people who rule there now, have no right to do that. Difference is in organization of usurpation of power. In one case you have to kill 100+ people, in another case you just deal with problems before hand.

 

As for Red Army reforming USSR all over again... Jimmy please... it is a very sad thing to read from you. Such mindset is a mindset of plebs who watch too much tv.

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

Unfreind them on twitter. and write a strongly worded letter to there mums. 

[X Equestris]

Boots on the ground have never solved a conflict if there is not some form of structure there to provide stability once the enemy surrenders. People are stuck in a WW2 mindset that just doesn't reflect the real world.
Defeating the Germans was simple. Brutally difficult and costly, but simple - beat them into submission, then give back the land to all the countries who they conquered. These countries had national identities, had existing (inactive) governments, previously built infrastructure... all you had to do was kill enough of the invaders and you can go home.
That wasn't the case in Vietnam or Korea, and it's not the case in the Middle East. Send an army with all the military might you can muster and you will easily roll over the opposition (with non-trivial loss of life, I might add). But when the dust settles, there is no one to step in and turn life back to normal for these countries. Democracy doesn't work when a large segment of the population votes to kill each other. Security doesn't happen when the best equipped and trained soldiers prefer to attack the government rather than serve it.
You can't avoid full blown revolt without addressing citizen needs. You can't address citizen needs without infrastructure. You can't build infrastructure without stability. And you can't provide stability without confidence in the government. A country has to be willing to say "yes, we are all Iraqis and although we may disagree, we all want is best for our nation." That's not the sentiment of (nearly) enough people in Iraq. That's why its military and securit forces desert at the slightest hint of resistance. That's why they bomb their own cities and claim to be retaliating against America. That is why they support radicals who execute their own neighbors if they don't pledge allegiance to their caliphate. Because no one is acting like a country.
Like others, I say let ISIS take over. Take over Iraq, take over Syria... take over Iran and Saudia Arabia too. Turn into one large country, devoted to a religious totalitarianism that conveniently ignores its own religion whenever it wants to brutalize those who stand against it. Then we'll see if people would rather fight for their own country or not. Because us fighting for them is clearly not working and has never worked in the past.

I agree, but the question was about how to defeat ISIS. And that will require someone's ground forces, whether they be from in the region or outside of it. Cleaning up the region afterwards is the problem, and that's partly because many of the national boundaries are more the result of colonialism than any national identity. I'm doubtful Iraq or Syria will come out of this intact. What the region needs is nations drawn up on ethnic and religious lines, the things the people of the region actually care about, instead of trying to keep these rather arbitrary borders intact.

[Lotion Soronarr]

call Kung Fury.

 

How about Kung Fuhrer?

[AlanC9]

At the moment, the US isn't doing much since Obama wants to be remembered for being the president that got us out of the Mid East.

Let him get impeached and get someone in there with a set and perhaps get congress on board as well to the "lets kill ISIS" boat.

Even if you got the impeachment, in what universe would Congress actually vote for more war?