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[In Exile]

Hmmmm, interesting. I'm actually replaying Trespasser myself right now, which is why I'm participating in these discussions. I love theorizing about all this stuff.

This is the first Mural, the death of a Titan. Notice how it is split apart, and the design on the core and then the design on the orb held by the ancient elf.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Now watch this imagine of the Sky Being Held Back, and note what the elf holds in his hands: 

 

Spoiler

 

And now just watch the mural for the breach:

 

Spoiler

[Hellion Rex]

A quote I just got from Cole: "He broke the Dreams to stop the Old Dreams from waking. The wolf chews its leg off to escape the trap."

 

Most interesting...

[In Exile]

A quote I just got from Cole: "He broke the Dreams to stop the Old Dreams from waking. The wolf chews its leg off to escape the trap."

 

Most interesting...

One wonders what Solas had to give up. The "Old Dreams" must be the Evanuris - that's consistent with Solas calling them the "first" of his kind. What's interesting is the "broke the Dreams" line. 

[Hellion Rex]

One wonders what Solas had to give up. The "Old Dreams" must be the Evanuris - that's consistent with Solas calling them the "first" of his kind. What's interesting is the "broke the Dreams" line. 

Possibly a reference to the breaking of the union of reality and the Fade?

[The Ascendant]

I wonder if we will discover any more ancient Elven temples like the Temple of Mythal? 

[In Exile]

Possibly a reference to the breaking of the union of reality and the Fade?

 

Generally, yes. But we've never seem "Dreams" used in reference to the Fade, no? I think it's something more than just that, because with "Old Dreams" being a reference to the Evanuris we have to interpret "Dreams" to mean elves, and that goes back to support for the theory that elves are spirits (or quasi-spirits). 

[Hellion Rex]

Generally, yes. But we've never seem "Dreams" used in reference to the Fade, no? I think it's something more than just that, because with "Old Dreams" being a reference to the Evanuris we have to interpret "Dreams" to mean elves, and that goes back to support for the theory that elves are spirits (or quasi-spirits). 

Or perhaps something else. Was it not said that Solas in part stopped the Evanuris for what they were intending to unleash? Perhaps those are the Old Dreams referred to here?

[In Exile]

Or perhaps something else. Was it not said that Solas in part stopped the Evanuris for what they were intending to unleash? Perhaps those are the Old Dreams referred to here?

That's an interesting theory. And now that I think on it, you might be right - it says "stop them from waking", and we know that the Evanuris were awake. Here is an alternate theory: this is a reference to the Titans. The Titan "awoke" following the Breach, when the Veil was weakening. It makes sense to talk about a Titan as an "Old Dream", and would fit with the idea that these are beings very closely tied to the Fade. 

[Hellion Rex]

I wonder if we will discover any more ancient Elven temples like the Temple of Mythal? 

I got my fingers crossed for the Temple of June.

[Xilizhra]

That's an interesting theory. And now that I think on it, you might be right - it says "stop them from waking", and we know that the Evanuris were awake. Here is an alternate theory: this is a reference to the Titans. The Titan "awoke" following the Breach, when the Veil was weakening. It makes sense to talk about a Titan as an "Old Dream", and would fit with the idea that these are beings very closely tied to the Fade. 

I suspect it might have been Old Gods. "Old dreams" sounds like "old whispers," as in "the door that old whispers want opened," which is clearly the Calling.

[Hellion Rex]

I suspect it might have been Old Gods. "Old dreams" sounds like "old whispers," as in "the door that old whispers want opened," which is clearly the Calling.

I kind of agree with this theory. It would make sense, and it would maybe explain where the Old Gods fit into the narrative.

[The Ascendant]

I got my fingers crossed for the Temple of June.

Well let's recount. The temple of Mythal is the most prominent one we visited in Inquisition, but we also saw Dirthamen's temple in the Dales, and Fen'Harel's sanctuary in Trespasser. Falon'Din was prominent in the Origins of a Dalish Warden. Falon'Din and Andruil got statues in Mythal's temple and Mythal also had a shrine on Sundermount. That leaves plenty of room for the other Evanuris.

[In Exile]

I suspect it might have been Old Gods. "Old dreams" sounds like "old whispers," as in "the door that old whispers want opened," which is clearly the Calling.

That was my initial thought (and I actually read it as Old Gods) but I don't think it works. And the Calling is something that is almost certainly not tied to the OGs, based on what we've learned about lyrium, the Titans, and red lyrium. 

[Xilizhra]

That was my initial thought (and I actually read it as Old Gods) but I don't think it works. And the Calling is something that is almost certainly not tied to the OGs, based on what we've learned about lyrium, the Titans, and red lyrium. 

So... is the Calling the product of tainted Titans? Why would they want the darkspawn to find the Old Gods? And how could the Titans project the song to seem to come from the Old Gods?

[In Exile]

So... is the Calling the product of tainted Titans? Why would they want the darkspawn to find the Old Gods? And how could the Titans project the song to seem to come from the Old Gods?

 

I think we have to little information to know. But we learn from Valta that she hears a song when she discusses the old God. We know normal lyrium - blue lyrium - is inseparable from the Titan. We know that blue lyrium "signs" outside of the Fade, from Justice in DA:A. We know from the Mother (among others) that the Calling is like a song. 

 

I'm just very sceptical of the Calling being properly tied to the Old Gods, whatever they are in the end. I think we'll learn more if we see an Old God prison. 

[Xilizhra]

I think we have to little information to know. But we learn from Valta that she hears a song when she discusses the old God. We know normal lyrium - blue lyrium - is inseparable from the Titan. We know that blue lyrium "signs" outside of the Fade, from Justice in DA:A. We know from the Mother (among others) that the Calling is like a song. 

 

I'm just very sceptical of the Calling being properly tied to the Old Gods, whatever they are in the end. I think we'll learn more if we see an Old God prison. 

"The red lyrium is different, darker, daggers under the skin. It eats you inside until you're nothing. They hear a different song, the song behind the door old whispers want opened. They are dead and dark and done."

 

So the song of red lyrium is not the song of blue lyrium, and the song is behind the door. The "old whispers" might not be the source of the song, but I can't interpret the song as being anything other than the Calling, and it's sung by something imprisoned, which seems to point to the Old Gods.

[Hellion Rex]

To further elaborate on the Evanuris unleashing stuff, just got this codex from the Titan destruction mural: "What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger. The People must rise before their false gods destroy them all."

 

Now, since this was attached to the Titan mural, it's got me wondering if while mining Titans, the Evanuris discovered something else in the Deep as well. Something they sought to tame and use? Or perhaps the Titans themselves, by lying so far in the Deep, were keeping something else bound and in check. And when the Evanuris went digging, they started to awaken it.

[Hellion Rex]

Also, after reading the codex, my Inquisitor said: "The runes say the Evanuris fought the Titans. They mined their bodies for lyrium and....something else."

 

I think pretty confirms that there was something else within the Titans yet to be discovered.

[In Exile]

"The red lyrium is different, darker, daggers under the skin. It eats you inside until you're nothing. They hear a different song, the song behind the door old whispers want opened. They are dead and dark and done."

 

So the song of red lyrium is not the song of blue lyrium, and the song is behind the door. The "old whispers" might not be the source of the song, but I can't interpret the song as being anything other than the Calling, and it's sung by something imprisoned, which seems to point to the Old Gods.

 

Ah, I see the missing link that I didn't explain well. I think each Titan has its own song. I think the thing imprisoned is the source of red lyrium, and the Blight, and not an Old God at all. I think the dragons we associate with the old gods are actually part of the prison. The reason that darkspawn wake them, essentially, is to loosen a seal. 

 

This is why, I think, Solas looks to the Grey Warden mission to kill the ADs as rank insanity.

[The Ascendant]

Call me sentimental, but I don't feel comfortable literally bleeding the life blood of a titanic creature like a mosquito. Let's be thankful that they are asleep and don't seem interested in us tiny creatures.

[Reznore57]

Also, after reading the codex, my Inquisitor said: "The runes say the Evanuris fought the Titans. They mined their bodies for lyrium and....something else."

 

I think pretty confirms that there was something else within the Titans yet to be discovered.

 

The elves wanted to make something "bloom".

There's talk of flowers , magic spells , the passing of the Titans making the earth bloom etc...except I've never seen lyrium actually making anything bloom so ...?

There's something very weird going on.

 

Spoiler

Flowering imago.

The pages of this book—memory?—describes an immensely tall, immensely graceful vine that flowers with the heat of a copper sunset and has blossoms as large as ponds, petals as long as a man, and scents puffing out like citron and sky and carrion-death.

The day the last of the vines folds, spent and extinct, the creator of this memory weeps and, after recording the flower's sights and sounds, enters uthenera.

"Treasure this thought, for it was the last of its kind, and so much more than the last of me."

 

What's up with that?Why would an elf cry about a huge and weird flower?Does the flower dying and the man going In uthenera are related?Why the flower is the last of its kind and "so much more than the last of me"?

 

                                                                 

 

This elven writing found in the Arbor Wilds is so old as to be incomprehensible.

There are whispers from the Well of Sorrows. It's impossible to understand the entire text, but certain parts suddenly reveal a shadow of their original meaning.

"In this place we prepare to hunt the pillars of the earth. Their workers scurry, witless, soulless. This death will be a mercy. We will make the earth blossom with their passing."

For one moment there is a vivid image of two overlapping spheres; unknown flowers bloom inside their centers. Then it fades.

 

 

Again flowers , but in this someone claims he will make the earth bloom with the death of Titans.

 

                                                                           

 

"Hail Mythal, adjudicator and savior! She has struck down the pillars of the earth and rendered their demesne unto the People! Praise her name forever!"

For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire.
The vision grows dark. An aeon seems to pass. Then the runes crackle, as if filled with an angry energy.
A new vision appears: elves collapsing caverns, sealing the Deep Roads with stone and magic.
Terror, heart-pounding, ice-cold, as the last of the spells is cast.
A voice whispers:

"What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger. The People must rise before their false gods destroy them all."

 

Green Vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire?Yeah feels familiar?Well the first text "Flower imago":"immensely graceful vine that flowers with the heat of a copper sunset"

 

                                                   

 

Now on top of the weird stuff in codices we used to have a threat about tinfoil hat theories etc(http://forum.bioware...ions-20/page-30 )and someone found this :

 

Looks like some kind of sun underground with vines growing  above it and yeah an egg.

Somehow I imagine it's a dragon egg.

Anyway Varric could write a book about it and reuse a title "That sh** is weird."

 

[Hellion Rex]

The elves wanted to make something "bloom".

There's talk of flowers , magic spells , the passing of the Titans making the earth bloom etc...except I've never seen lyrium actually making anything bloom so ...?

There's something very weird going on.

 

Spoiler

Flowering imago.

The pages of this book—memory?—describes an immensely tall, immensely graceful vine that flowers with the heat of a copper sunset and has blossoms as large as ponds, petals as long as a man, and scents puffing out like citron and sky and carrion-death.

The day the last of the vines folds, spent and extinct, the creator of this memory weeps and, after recording the flower's sights and sounds, enters uthenera.

"Treasure this thought, for it was the last of its kind, and so much more than the last of me."

 

What's up with that?Why would an elf cry about a huge and weird flower?Does the flower dying and the man going In uthenera are related?Why the flower is the last of its kind and "so much more than the last of me"?

 

                                                                 

 

This elven writing found in the Arbor Wilds is so old as to be incomprehensible.

There are whispers from the Well of Sorrows. It's impossible to understand the entire text, but certain parts suddenly reveal a shadow of their original meaning.

"In this place we prepare to hunt the pillars of the earth. Their workers scurry, witless, soulless. This death will be a mercy. We will make the earth blossom with their passing."

For one moment there is a vivid image of two overlapping spheres; unknown flowers bloom inside their centers. Then it fades.

 

 

Again flowers , but in this someone claims he will make the earth bloom with the death of Titans.

 

                                                                           

 

"Hail Mythal, adjudicator and savior! She has struck down the pillars of the earth and rendered their demesne unto the People! Praise her name forever!"

For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire.
The vision grows dark. An aeon seems to pass. Then the runes crackle, as if filled with an angry energy.
A new vision appears: elves collapsing caverns, sealing the Deep Roads with stone and magic.
Terror, heart-pounding, ice-cold, as the last of the spells is cast.
A voice whispers:

"What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger. The People must rise before their false gods destroy them all."

 

Green Vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire?Yeah feels familiar?Well the first text "Flower imago":"immensely graceful vine that flowers with the heat of a copper sunset"

 

                                                   

 

Now on top of the weird stuff in codices we used to have a threat about tinfoil hat theories etc(http://forum.bioware...ions-20/page-30 )and someone found this :

 

Looks like some kind of sun underground with vines growing  above it and yeah an egg.

Somehow I imagine it's a dragon egg.

Anyway Varric could write a book about it and reuse a title "That sh** is weird."

 

Good catch about the flowers. I would argue that the codex piece you mention was written a decent while before mine, when the elves began to hunt Titans for whatever it was. And then the one I mentioned was after they realized how bad they had F'd up.

[susanwb]

Now on top of the weird stuff in codices we used to have a threat about tinfoil hat theories etc(http://forum.bioware...ions-20/page-30 )and someone found this :

 

Looks like some kind of sun underground with vines growing  above it and yeah an egg.

Somehow I imagine it's a dragon egg.

Anyway Varric could write a book about it and reuse a title "That sh** is weird."

 

[/spoiler]

 

Ha!  That's my picture!  There's actually a whole series of these (4 or 5 different designs.)  These are from Andruil's temple that you visit to get the Sulevin Blade.  But they also show up on tombstones and (of all things) dwarven designs and furniture.

 

Is it just reused assets or is it meaningful?

[Qun00]

I've been thinking... maybe that theory about the origin of the elves is true after all. Mythal joined with Flemeth into one body. What other beings are known to be able to do that? That's right: Spirits.

[rolson00]

Iv always wondered if the whole darkspawn thing was a symptom of magic being filtered by the veil you know something that couldn't before happen with so much magic around started happening due to the veil. 

 

Another thought is could elves be highly important for the security of Thedas? allow me to elaborate, for some reason the elves went through a rather rabid and devastating decline culturally speaking after the veil. Now take the celts (or German pagans) a great deal of their ways and religion greatly impacts modern life, the Native Americans have also suffered culturally but still they endure.

 

Now onto the my main point using real life attempts to stamp out a culture how is it the elves lost so much, could it have been someone with perhaps godlike powers going out their way to stamp out elven culture and possible elves themselves? Is it possible that something/things was greatly threatened by elves and needed them gone or at least their history as the saying goes those who dont know their history cannot learn from it. 

 

If you read my rambling ponders i thankyou also how cool, is this thread its like were elven mages debating magic lore and history here!