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[Baboontje]

As for the vallaslin, it is probably more a general leaning towards the particular god without being dedicated wholeheartedly to everything about them.   Take Ameridan, for example, who revered Ghilan'nain, who is principally known as the mother of the Halla, yet he was a mage who specialised in hunting demons.    So may be he just had a love of nature and animals as a younger man, or may be his love Telana was devoted to Ghilan'nain and they bonded early in life before they received their vallaslin, so he took Ghilan'nain to show his devotion to his wife.

 

Then there is Cillian, who has the vallaslin of June, even though he is a mage.   I have assumed this is because he see magic as a craft to be perfected, so whilst you would not see June as an obvious choice for a mage, there is a sense to opting for his vallaslin.

 

I agree with just generally identifying with a certain god. Every individual views their gods' virtues and traits differently. However, in game at least, Ameridan has Dirthamen's vallaslin.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Reznore57:  Religious propaganda is just like any other propaganda... almost all men give their will over to institutions. 

 

That being said... I think the elven "immortality" might have something to do with the elves connection to the Evanuris.  

 

I think it would be VERY interesting if killing the Evanuris would deprive the elves of immortality forever. 

[Reznore57]

@Reznore57:  Religious propaganda is just like any other propaganda... almost all men give their will over to institutions. 

 

That being said... I think the elven "immortality" might have something to do with the elves connection to the Evanuris.  

 

I think it would be VERY interesting if killing the Evanuris would deprive the elves of immortality forever. 

 

Religious propaganda where the Gods make the rules and directly benefit from that is closer to a cult with some gurus...

Religion in general would be more democratic than that since you have people screaming at each others and warring about the meaning of scriptures etc...

Here there's no debate to be had whatsoever , the Gods are here and their words are law.

It's bad.

[Medhia_Nox]

Religious propaganda where the Gods make the rules and directly benefit from that is closer to a cult with some gurus...

Religion in general would be more democratic than that since you have people screaming at each others and warring about the meaning of scriptures etc...

Here there's no debate to be had whatsoever , the Gods are here and their words are law.

It's bad.

 

Good point.

 

But still... we don't know how bad they really were.  

 

Were they like kings and queens?  Someone telling you want to do isn't always "evil" - so Evanuris who are imperious protectors of the elven civiliation don't necessarily have to be tyrants just because some elves are inconvenienced by work... 

 

I mean, we are told the elves had royalty I believe... are these just the favored?  Or did the Evanuris keep their distance?

We know nothing but what Solas claims - and I believe nothing he says on his word alone. 

[Reznore57]

Good point.

 

But still... we don't know how bad they really were.  

 

Were they like kings and queens?  Someone telling you want to do isn't always "evil" - so Evanuris who are imperious protectors of the elven civiliation don't necessarily have to be tyrants just because some elves are inconvenienced by work... 

 

I mean, we are told the elves had royalty I believe... are these just the favored?  Or did the Evanuris keep their distance?

We know nothing but what Solas claims - and I believe nothing he says on his word alone. 

 

Honestly I don't know how the rest of their society was working.

They had a fervous priestwood like the Sentinels , and again it seems those were fighters .

From Mythal temple we know at least for her , it wasn't a simple vow of worship they were bound to her by magic.

 

There's a Fen Harel tale talking about a King , and Felassan talked about nobility and you could find noble tombs  working a bit like Mythal temples.People had to walk some path and they could ask for some advice from the Dreamers.

What I find strange is why the nobles were going in uthenera because they were "tired" of living but you know the Evanuris were never tired of ruling everyone.

So I wonder if there were some purge system in place , and people were forced to "retire" through death for common folks and in uthenera for nobles .

 

About the Evanuris being "evil" I said for us they would be monsters , but for their times?

They had a society where part of the population could in theory turn into a dragon.

If you like your buildings and your fields and your social order , you might want to keep the people from using a bit too much magic.

I think they might have run into complication building an empire in Thedas , an "immutable" plane (more or less anyway) with so much fade magic at their fingertips.

The Evanuris may have been casual about  their own power of destruction but I have a feeling they weren't willing to extend the courtesy to others.Which might have been the right idea.

Still I have a hard time saying slavery religious propaganda and piles of dead bodies were grand.

[Medhia_Nox]

 

Still I have a hard time saying slavery religious propaganda and piles of dead bodies were grand.

 

But.... but... how else would we have Egypt? 

[Gervaise]

Sorry, you are quite correct about Ameridan's vallaslin, which is Dirthamen and would be appropriate to a mage.   However, he was making an offering honouring Ghilan'nain in the memory at the shrine dedicated to both Andraste and Ghilan'nain; that is what I was thinking of.   So clearly among the Dalish it is possible to have the vallaslin of one god but still make devotion to others, although of course Ameridan was unusual in also honouring Andraste and the Maker.   He felt it was possible to do both in good conscience but says how he fears Drakon wants to keep things simple, which of course is what happened, so only one god at a time is allowable.

[Gervaise]

Would point out that we only have Solas' word for it that the elvhen were slaves in the accepted sense.   Followers seem bound to their particular god but if Abelas was anything to go by, this was something he did voluntarily and it would seem in full knowledge of what that entailed.   Look at the Well of Sorrows; no one forces you to drink but if you do then you are bound to Mythal.    If you do drink, then Solas freaks over it, claiming he warned you not to (according to PW he missed that bit of conversation by mistake).  All I remember was that he didn't want to drink, he didn't want Morrigan to drink but he thought someone should drink; that really only left the Inquisitor as the someone.  Considering that he said Mythal was the one good Evanuris and he shut away the others for killing her, it does seem strange that he should react in that way, unless he knew what he is planning to do concerning Mythal.     Still apparently every priest of Mythal was happy to be bound to her and their memories are stored in the Well.

 

In the past when told of the loss of immortality, magical ability and the disappearance of the elven gods, I thought they might be linked in some way.   Solas seems adamant that it is the Veil, not the Evanuris that gives the elves their immortality.  However, they also lost their universal magical ability, yet many elves are still mages and Kieran could sense the magic in their blood, so what is all that about?     I have to admit, though, that when he says the elves seemed like tranquil to him, I thought they were probably just wandering around dazed in a state of shock.   Tranquil haven't just lost their connection to the Fade; they've lost their emotions as well.   The elves in the library had definitely not lost their emotions.     An interesting thought is that we actually walked in the Fade.   Had we been able to stay their indefinitely, would the elves among us have been immortal?

 

The Tevinter also knew that the elves blood was special, which is why they prefer using them for blood magic.   So who told them originally?

 

Also, why the talk of piles of dead bodies connected with the Evanuris?    True Solas talks about the excesses of Falon'Din, but that would seem to be towards the end when I think something weird was going on generally among the Evanuris, and it is not clear exactly who Andruil was hunting when it speaks of mortals but she seems to have gone a bit mad as well.    However, where is the evidence that the others sacrificed anyone?

[Medhia_Nox]

@Gervaise:  Well, Mythal... the "good" Evanuris... massacred the proto-dwarves and killed the Titans.  So - there were piles of bodies I suppose.  

 

After Tresspasser - my main warden will be drinking from the Well... anything that pisses off Solas sounds like the right thing to do. 

[Hellion Rex]

@Gervaise: Well, Mythal... the "good" Evanuris... massacred the proto-dwarves and killed the Titans. So - there were piles of bodies I suppose.

After Tresspasser - my main warden will be drinking from the Well... anything that pisses off Solas sounds like the right thing to do.

Indeed. I want every weapon I can get against the bald *******.

Side note: I wonder if there were other wells dedicated to gods throughout Thedas.

[Xilizhra]

Indeed. I want every weapon I can get against the bald *******.

Given that he absorbed Mythal's power, he can probably control you now.

[Qun00]

There is one thing I don't understand. Andruil was a mage like all Evanuris, right? So how did she hunt? Not with a bow, that's for sure.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Why not? You're imagining mages back then practiced magic the same way mages do now. Back then magic was more powerful and she was at the top of the food chain. There's no reason she couldn't have hunted with a bow.

[sniper_arrow]

Given that he absorbed Mythal's power, he can probably control you now.

 

Assuming you drank from the Well.

[sniper_arrow]

Just a thought...

 

Would you consider Mythal a wild card in the future? Either to hinder Solas/DA4 PC's plans or something else?

[Hellion Rex]

There is one thing I don't understand. Andruil was a mage like all Evanuris, right? So how did she hunt? Not with a bow, that's for sure.

Ummmm, magic bow that never misses a target?

Ever play the Magick Archer class in Dragon's Dogma? Arrows of light fo dayz!

[Hellion Rex]

Given that he absorbed Mythal's power, he can probably control you now.

Not necessarily. Mythal might have transferred the bit concerning the Well to Morrigan. 

 

My assumption comes from the theory that their were effectively two parts - the power/energy and the "essence of godhood" itself. One thing got supposedly passed to Morrigan. I don't think Mythal would have let knowledge from Well go to Solas, and might have passed it Morrigan.

 

That said, while Solas might not be able to control us, Morrigan might indeed be able to.

[Xilizhra]

Not necessarily. Mythal might have transferred the bit concerning the Well to Morrigan. 

 

My assumption comes from the theory that their were effectively two parts - the power/energy and the "essence of godhood" itself. One thing got supposedly passed to Morrigan. I don't think Mythal would have let knowledge from Well go to Solas, and might have passed it Morrigan.

 

That said, while Solas might not be able to control us, Morrigan might indeed be able to.

When, exactly, would Flemeth have done so? Since Flemeth could control Morrigan or the Inquisitor in The Final Piece, and transferred nothing to Morrigan thereafter, Solas can be the only possible beneficiary.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

We don't really know enough about how the Well of Sorrows works exactly to conclude whether Solas, Morrigan or anyone can control an Inquisitor who drank out of it. 

[Medhia_Nox]

There is one thing I don't understand. Andruil was a mage like all Evanuris, right? So how did she hunt? Not with a bow, that's for sure.

 

In Bulls group... you meet the mage who carries a "bow, not a staff"

 

Then, in Magekiller (the new comic) - you encounter another elf with a "bow, not a staff" - though I'm not sure if it's the same elf officially.

 

Anyway - "if" those two are different elves... then I think it's clear that the ancient elves used bows as their foci instead of staves (these are not ancient elves of course - but someone at Bioware came up with a new idea and said:  "Oh COOL, we'll say it's an ancient elf thing.". 

 

Would actually be kind of cool to see elven mages shooting their basic attack like a bow instead of doing staff gymnastics.

[Qun00]

Just a thought...
 
Would you consider Mythal a wild card in the future? Either to hinder Solas/DA4 PC's plans or something else?

Hahaha, absolutely! I'm just waiting for the moment when her energy leaves Solas once he is defeated and materializes as Flemeth, who proceeds to lecture him about his foolishness.

How anyone would be so quick to believe Flemeth of all people would be dead is beyond me.

In Bulls group... you meet the mage who carries a "bow, not a staff"
 
Then, in Magekiller (the new comic) - you encounter another elf with a "bow, not a staff" - though I'm not sure if it's the same elf officially.
 
Anyway - "if" those two are different elves... then I think it's clear that the ancient elves used bows as their foci instead of staves (these are not ancient elves of course - but someone at Bioware came up with a new idea and said:  "Oh COOL, we'll say it's an ancient elf thing.". 
 
Would actually be kind of cool to see elven mages shooting their basic attack like a bow instead of doing staff gymnastics.

Alright... and how would the not arrows be fired from the not bow?

[Hellion Rex]

When, exactly, would Flemeth have done so? Since Flemeth could control Morrigan or the Inquisitor in The Final Piece, and transferred nothing to Morrigan thereafter, Solas can be the only possible beneficiary.

I'm kind of subscribing to the theory that Flemeth sent something through the mirror in the end scene. 

[Hellion Rex]

In Bulls group... you meet the mage who carries a "bow, not a staff"

 

Then, in Magekiller (the new comic) - you encounter another elf with a "bow, not a staff" - though I'm not sure if it's the same elf officially.

 

Anyway - "if" those two are different elves... then I think it's clear that the ancient elves used bows as their foci instead of staves (these are not ancient elves of course - but someone at Bioware came up with a new idea and said:  "Oh COOL, we'll say it's an ancient elf thing.". 

 

Would actually be kind of cool to see elven mages shooting their basic attack like a bow instead of doing staff gymnastics.

In theory, how hard would it be to shape fire, ice, or lightning into an arrow like shape? I'd imagine the ancient elves were pretty proficient at such combat magic.

[Hellion Rex]

We don't really know enough about how the Well of Sorrows works exactly to conclude whether Solas, Morrigan or anyone can control an Inquisitor who drank out of it. 

Probably not, but it's something to speculate about.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

I'm pretty sure Dalish's "bow" is just a staff, guys. It even has an "aiming crystal" on top of it. Might be a curvy staff to keep up the ruse, but a bow needs to fire arrows to be a bow.