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[The Ascendant]

Wonder how Elves used to look before the Veil? Physically I mean.

[d1ta]

How they looked like pre-Veil ?
Like the ones in LotR (my fantasy talking XD)
Based on the game so far.. all of their artwork depicts of bald humanoids with pointy ears, so.. could it be that they are hairless? (Please honest to God 'NO' otherwise I might have to actually thank Solas for putting up the Veil there.. since it allows the elves to have hair)

[Qun00]

Ahahaa.. yeah, I played elven characters most. Blame Tolkien for that (fan girl squee on Legolas). How funny that I just red your writting on the Cullen thread kinda agree about that thing being pestered by demons for life could be taxing/bothersome and all.
(Ironically, may fave and canon is a Dalish First) so what's yours?

About this thread, what can I say, I love people having discussion and having different opinions yet still keeping things civil. No name callings. That's a plus.
Both sides have their own pov's and merrits as well as things that I dont necessary agree with

Mine is a Dalish mage as well. I'd considered choosing rogue so that the first three heroes would all have different classes, but ultimately decided otherwise.

Mahariel already was a hunter, so it would be a fresh experience to play a Dalish elf that comes from a different role this time around.

Also, making Erimond tranquil is something I can't pass up.

[rolson00]

How they looked like pre-Veil ?
Like the ones in LotR (my fantasy talking XD)
Based on the game so far.. all of their artwork depicts of bald humanoids with pointy ears, so.. could it be that they are hairless? (Please honest to God 'NO' otherwise I might have to actually thank Solas for putting up the Veil there.. since it allows the elves to have hair)

no solas is bald by choose art by bioware of him in his younger days shows him with dreads

[Hellion Rex]

Wonder how Elves used to look before the Veil? Physically I mean.

If they looked like this:

 

 

then I eagerly await the return of our elven overlords. 

[Qun00]

They looked like Lee Pace. All of them.

[Hellion Rex]

They looked like Lee Pace. All of them.

[Reznore57]

I imagine ancient elves looked like ...elves.With more bling though.

[rolson00]

I imagine ancient elves looked like ...elves.With more bling though.

Like this?? 

 

Elves Now

 

Elves Then

 

[Qun00]

Why are you asking, though? Haven't we already seen Abelas? Solas?

[d1ta]

Also, making Erimond tranquil is something I can't pass up.

That is a very valid reason to play mage and then the whole mage community starts to scream .. good thing I've kept Barris on my canon (Abernach must live and be paired with Chief Movran! Fer life! )

Erimond gets the chopping block for me. Huff and puff all he likes in the courtroom, dude still squirms and wets his pants when he knows his head is about to roll.

So does your First enjoy the Herald thingy? Looking at your name I guess your Lavellan must be best buds with IB? or maybe not, prefering the alliance with the Qun and all..

[Qun00]

No, my username comes from when I was a naive young lad who didn't know this franchise would claim him. Forever.

I was just learning about the races in this game when I came across the concept art for Qunari women. Then I thought, "wow, that looks awesome!" and decided I'd pick that one when I finally got the game.

But as it turns out, the Corypheus plot is a red herring and DAI ended up being more about elfy stuff. It would be a waste not to play a Dalish elf who gets the privilege of learning about all that.

And so, I'm postponing my horny protagonist to DA4.

[Baboontje]

Wonder how Elves used to look before the Veil? Physically I mean.

 

I read a fanfic the other day and they described the ancient elves as being slightly taller, not so hunched and skinny. As they hadn't suffered generations of malnourishment and mistreatment. And I could really go along with that.

 

But plis, let them have hair, plis....

[d1ta]

.. snip..

And so, I'm postponing my horny protagonist to DA4.

Well, I hope whatever it is in store for the Qunari in DA4 will be epic

[Gwydden]

@Medhia: Thank you for your response as well. Truth is I don't have much else to add, since after your last post I get the impression that we agree far more than we disagree. The devil is in the details and all that.

[Qun00]

I'm still trying to understand how Mythal could be described as "the best of them" and "a voice of reason". I mean, she was the one who made Morrigan... Morrigan.

The other Evanuris must be absolute monsters if she stands out as an example of loving and caring goddess.

Oh, and one more thing. Did the Evanuris rule together or was it more like " Look, this is Andruil's city. And the other one is Dirthamen's."

[Hellion Rex]

I'm still trying to understand how Mythal could be described as "the best of them" and "a voice of reason". I mean, she was the one who made Morrigan... Morrigan.

The other Evanuris must be absolute monsters if she stands out as an example of loving and caring goddess.

Oh, and one more thing. Did the Evanuris rule together or was it more like " Look, this is Andruil's city. And the other one is Dirthamen's."

I mean, I don't think it's hard to understand. Solas was talking about about Mythal during the height of Arlathan, not Mythal of now. I'd argue that the Mythal of now is worlds different from her previous self. She's been forced to change and adapt from a world that has moved on from romantic notions of Arlathan. She seems bitter and weary now.

 

And I'd argue that some glimmer of empathy and the sense of motherhood is still there. In a roundabout way, I would argue that Mythal and Flemeth made Morrigan a better person and mother through their actions. 

 

As to the Evanuris, I think they might have each had their own city, with Mythal and Elgarnan, as heads of the pantheon, ruling primarily from the capital city. 

[Shechinah]

And I'd argue that some glimmer of empathy and the sense of motherhood is still there. In a roundabout way, I would argue that Mythal and Flemeth made Morrigan a better person and mother through their actions. 

 

I'd not because it seems to me that Morrigan became a better person after she'd left Flemeth and stayed away from her after the events of the Fifth Blight. I think we've also seen it indicated that Flemeth was not a very kind nor supportive mother: Flemeth seemed to genuinely love Morrigan but how she raised Morrigan seemed to be about shaping Morrigan into what Flemeth wanted and needed without consideration for Morrigan's emotional wants and needs.  

 

If I recall correctly; in the Fade, Morrigan claims the dream apparition of Flemeth resembles her mother after it strikes her. Even if the real Flemeth never used physical violence on Morrigan, that still speaks volumes of their relationship, in my opinion especially combined with the other instances.

 

If so, I'd rather not credit the abusive parent for their child becoming somewhat of a good person because it is often despite their upbringing and parent rather than because of it and said parent.  
 

[The Ascendant]

For me Morrigan (who I romanced and had Kieran with) became a  good person not because of Flemeth, but in spite of her. For all her talk of justice and revenge, Flemeth has only ever cared about herself and her ambitions. She was perfectly willing to kidnap Kieran were it not for Morrigan's complete devotion to her son, she wouldn't have bothered to just take Urthemiel from him, leaving him free to live his own life. That moment when Morrigan declares she will never be a mother like Flemeth was, you see the look on her face, that's when she realized that Morrigan will be a better person than she ever could.   

[d1ta]

I'm kinda 'torn' here about Flemythal being a what kind of mom.

At DAO when you hear Morrigan's banter about her mom with Leliana.... Hooooo boy. It seems pretty messed up on how Flemmeth raised her daughter(s).

Being live bait to those pesky persistant intruders Templars and lure them to Flemmeth's trap. When she was still only a little girl O.o'
And stories of how her mom brought chasind men home and... uh, do things (I got an impression that she killed them after 'use'..can somebody correct me on this one? Been ages since I played the game..) and then told Morrigan that it was expected for her to do the same.

But then in DAI, that family reunion between Kieran, Morrigan and FleMythal plays up. Those were one of the best scene ever in the game that really pulled my heartstrings.

When Morrigan yells and frantically tries to 'save' Kieran from his grandmother, FleMy's expression was non-challant with a touch of cold heartedness when she made a bargain with Morrigan: her life in exchange for Kieran's freedom.
However, when Morrigan told her mother she would willingly make that sacrifice because she loves her son .. Flemmeth's expression began to change. During that moment I think she realizes something:
1. She always knew that she was hard on Morrigan, but never have thought that it was much too far for Morrigan.
2. Despite everything, Morrigan has become a good mother in her own right. Sure at the beginning she thought about using Kieran to achieve 'something' just like how she precieve Flemmeth is using her into achieve 'something'. But then love blooms and that motherly feeling is destined to stay (mind you, her stance still is the same even without the presence of a caring daddy warden) When she told Flemmeth that Kieran is better off without her like how she was better off without Flemmeth.. I cried. To me that really sounded like a mother's insecurity that she would never be able to live up the standards to be a mother that her child deserves. And she would fight tooth and nails, even at the cost of her life and still lose at the end, she would really really fight for her son.

... There are a whole lot of unsaid things that conveys a lot of emotions during that short cut scean. Maybe I'm seeing things too much, or maybe because I'm also a mom with 2 sons that used to bicker a lot with my own mom so yeah, I can relate (though no where in the scale of Morrigan-Mythal)

Back at the Morrigan and Mom, thing..
I'd like to think that the 'Mom!Morrigan of DAI' is the Morrigan that Flemmeth hopes her daughter would be like. And the fact that it was Kieran that made Morrigan a better person and not her (omg, this one is sooo close to home for me) ah well..

Tiger Moms are known for caring with an iron grip. And as a mom, you'd really try your best to prepare your kids to face the 'outside world'. Combine that with the fact that mom is mythal who has undergo the worst of betrayal, bitter experiences and has lived a very looooooooong time to witness almost everything under the sun. Lets just say that I really dont envy Morrigan. At all

As for Mythal being the best amongst the Evanuris.. yeah, I do think she is. Despite her not being in full strength, she'd still try to guide the Dalish and helps them occasionally (though her goal may not be all alturistic. Although we still dont know what IS her goal. Sure she talks about revenge. But to whom? In what form? How will she achieve that? How many casualties? By the million? Or simply killed the guilty party and put Thedas under new management?) Still too little information for me.
That and .. looking at the rest of the Pantheon cast.. there is Ghilan'nain who killed all save several of her creatures just to get an invitation to join the 'in' crowd, falon'din demanded everyone to fawn over him otherwise he wages war to those who refuse and Elgar'nan has a too short of a fuse.
Gee.. not much of a competition, is it? no wonder she needs nanny solas to help rein in those kids down a bit. And it's interesting how she invited 'wisdom' instead of 'command' as her ally
I think that's pretty telling of her nature before her asassination


PS: sorry for my long ramblings and wall of text just a personal opinion of course

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

That and .. looking at the rest of the Pantheon cast.. there is Ghilan'nain who killed all save several of her creatures just to get an invitation to join the 'in' crowd, falon'din demanded everyone to fawn over him otherwise he wages war to those who refuse and Elgar'nan has a too short of a fuse.

 
Elgar'nan is one of the evanuris I really want to get to know more about. Assuming the stories about him have at least a grain of truth and he really was Mythal's husband, I am a bit baffled about why he'd betray her. Yes, he's powerful and he wants to, I assume, keep that power. But she's the only one who could calm him. Like, usually the reason for that, especially in a character with such anger issues, is b/c she is that much more precious to him. So, why would he have betrayed her? Simply over her telling him not to take lyrium?
 
Add the Mythal/Elgar'nan dynamic to how his whole backstory with trying to kill the "sun" b/c it was scorching the "land" is basically the story of a son standing up against his abusive father to protect his mother, and I'm intrigued by this guy.

[Hellion Rex]

I don't know. That final smile Flemeth gives Morrigan right before she disappears was a powerful moment, at least to me. At the end of the day, Flemeth treating Morrigan how she did forced Morrigan to become a better person and mother.

[Qun00]

Elgar'nan is one of the evanuris I really want to get to know more about. Assuming the stories about him have at least a grain of truth and he really was Mythal's husband, I am a bit baffled about why he'd betray her. Yes, he's powerful and he wants to, I assume, keep that power. But she's the only one who could calm him. Like, usually the reason for that, especially in a character with such anger issues, is b/c she is that much more precious to him. So, why would he have betrayed her? Simply over her telling him not to take lyrium?
 
Add the Mythal/Elgar'nan dynamic to how his whole backstory with trying to kill the "sun" b/c it was scorching the "land" is basically the story of a son standing up against his abusive father to protect his mother, and I'm intrigued by this guy.

Husband? I must've missed that part. They do represent fatherhood and motherhood respectively, but I've never heard there was an actual relationship.

If so, I would expect it to be a purely political deal rather than love.

[Reznore57]

Elgar'nan is one of the evanuris I really want to get to know more about. Assuming the stories about him have at least a grain of truth and he really was Mythal's husband, I am a bit baffled about why he'd betray her. Yes, he's powerful and he wants to, I assume, keep that power. But she's the only one who could calm him. Like, usually the reason for that, especially in a character with such anger issues, is b/c she is that much more precious to him. So, why would he have betrayed her? Simply over her telling him not to take lyrium?
 
Add the Mythal/Elgar'nan dynamic to how his whole<a data-ipb="nomediaparse" data-cke-saved-href="http://dragonage.wik...x_entry:_Elgar"href="http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Elgar" nan:_god_of_vengeance"=""> backstory with trying to kill the "sun" b/c it was scorching the "land" is basically the story of a son standing up against his abusive father to protect his mother, and I'm intrigued by this guy.

There's not much about Elgar'nan who was as important as Mythal , he probably wasn't the most beloved but he was the father figure of the Pantheon.
He did get a mosaic , and a few text but no statues of him (kinda weird)also Solas doesn't say a word about the dude.
Honestly i'm sensing a story here.I think the devs didn't want to get into it just yet...maybe because Elgar'nan is related to that mysterious "Sun " entity.

It's possible things also went ugly in elvhen land .Solas implies he was betrayed by someone , we know for sure Mythal got shanked ...
You'd think Elgaga wouldn't have liked that , of course the easy explanation is he probably didn't like Mythal much by then and was alright with her dying.Maybe more than alright.
Fact that Flemeth story of betrayal is between a husband she didn't care for but took for pragmatism , and a lover she did care for who was slained by the husby could shade some light on the issue.
I mean sure Flemeth got betrayed , but hell has no furry like a woman scorned and she probably wasn't the only woman out there howling at the moon in rage.
Perhaps it wasn't just the betrayal drawing Mythal but a somewhat similar tale.

Flemeth also says in DAO " Men have killed for Flemeth and her beauty"...and she says sadly "it dictated everything that followed." which work for Flemeth but could also have been the case for Mythal.
Remember Solas expresses quite a bit of rage about the fact some dared touch Mythal.

When Morrigan send you to kill her , she also laugh and says she did the same , manipulating people with the "I'm a damsell in distress , please , save me" .
Could apply to Flemeth and/or Mythal.

I sometimes wonder if she was trying to enact some changes in her empire , perhaps getting tired of having to babysit a bunch of crazy gods , and she tried to manipulate stuff in her favor and it all came crashing down fast.
With Solas getting ideas and pushing harder for reforms , the Evanuris seeing their godhood threatened and pushing harder in getting more power at any cost...

[d1ta]

On Elgar'nan.. here's my take on him:

Elgar'nan loves Mythal, but Elgar'nan loves Elgar'nan more.

If that makes sense

Same as how could a 'strong' guy could ever beat his hard working and caring girl
Dude has issues. Jealousy, insecurities because of traumatic past, anger problem, booze problems and what have you.
He could love her like no other in one moment but then flips out to the other direction when enraged. Especially when your power almost know no bounds.. that could be a dangerous combination.

We've met Mythal and Fen'harel so far, I kinda wonder if we'll ever meet another one or two more from the Pantheon. Will they present themselves as one of the Creators (no beating around the bush anymore. Be up front about it) or I'd be laughing my arse off if later we'd get to discover that the crazy hermit in Brecilien Forest was actually Elgar'nan being able to escape from Solas's trap somehow took a lot from him to do a jail break, but that's why he lost his mind

@Hellion Rex, the whole thing was a powerful moment for me *cries* speaking about grandmother-mother-son interaction. Yes, Morrigan benefit much from her mom's [very questionable way of] 'education' .. But ultimately, it was Kieran who gives her the bigger push in wanting to be a 'better person'.
My personal take at least it's pretty cool if we all have different interpretation even when we are seeing the same thing writters did a dang good job