964 réponses à ce sujet

[YourFunnyUncle]

That's cool too. I think the political angle doesn't interest me as much though. It's necessary, but not exactly what I want to play. Mostly it's the personal journey for me, so maybe that's why I like Mahariel more. They're not exactly a mover/shaker like the Inquisitor. That story is more about accepting your curse/duty. I just like thinking about the character's psychology and how they come to peace with their "mission" for themselves. What might give them strength and how they come to care about other people than themselves (because I start off Mahariel as a jerk and a murderer in the beginning).

Well... In Cassandra and Leliana you have two devout Andrastian believers who are in your close circle and are both basically kind and accepting of others (well if you soften Leliana, anyway...) If you're looking for a personal reason for a Dalish Inquisitor to convert it might be that as they lose their faith they are inspired by one of them to take up Andrastianism...

[Serelir]

I didn't just say convert. I said reassess or convert. The first is just about being more openminded and broadening horizons. DAO is good story for that. Mahariel gets to see a lot of the world than they were used to.

 

All of these little things add up to someone reassessing their whole view of humans.

 

As for Solas... I think that's all these threads come down to really. Enthusiastic romance fans, who want everyone to share in it.. 

 

 

DAI provides many opportunities for the Dalish Inquisitor to question her beliefs and change them, not only because of Solas and the revelations about the Sentinel elves and Mythal, but through conversations with the companions, advisors, and Chantry people, as well as influencing the selection of the Divine. 

 

It's pretty insulting to suggest that I created this thread simply because I'm in love with Solas, whom I haven't romanced. There was no opportunity in DAO to play a Dalish mage, though I've played a Dalish archer and a city elf duel dagger rogue as well as several elven Circle mages.

 

I do agree that there could have been more interactions with other Dalish characters in order for the Inquisitor to process through the things she's learned. From what I've read, the non-human Inquisitor races and even Solas' character were shoehorned in at the end.

 

Certainly, anyone who plays as a Dalish inquisitor and romances any of the non-elf companions has thought about what it means to love and forgive humans and to give up one's Dalish family and culture, since there's no going back to the clan if one marries a non-Dalish person. 

[Lulupab]

 
To a certain extent it does, if you wanna roleplay as a more insular Dalish elf who wants nothing to do with humans.  But the game doesn't differentiate all that much between the origins anyway, so headcanon always fills in the gaps.

 

Yeah maybe, but somethings cannot be changed and one of them is the fact that you are from a human friendly clan and you yourself probably engaged in trade with humans and talking with them in peace.

 

Its like the pro-Templar Hawke thing. No matter how much pro-templar you want to be, you can't change the fact that you did everything in your power to protect Bethany from templars, maybe even killed some.

 

Roleplaying is good and all, but I think one must fully digest the background then start doing it. In DA:I a practical insular Dalish would be distrust of humans and being versed in their politics and not being afraid of befriending people to use them. The outright "OMG SHEMLEN" roleplay is kinda flawed in DA:I.

 

I didn't just say convert. I said reassess or convert. The first is just about being more openminded and broadening horizons. DAO is good story for that. Mahariel gets to see a lot of the world than they were used to.

 

If you want my thought process, it's a mix of things that I could use to play that way. I think the DAO elf is more vulnerable. They're more alone, possibly guilt ridden over Tamlen...or just confused why all of this happening to them (the Taint), and they're looking for new direction. And instead of Solas, maybe it's Leliana that influences them.. Or Wynne that makes them see things differently. Or maybe it's seeing the vision of Shartan, or being convinced the Ashes are real... and it makes them think that Andraste wasn't all bad. Or maybe it's seeing that vision of the Arcane Warrior quest and realizing that humans and elves worked together once before. So they want to work towards something better like that. Or maybe it's Zathrian and his bitterness, and how you don't want to end up like that. 

 

All of these little things add up to someone reassessing their whole view of humans.

 

 

I could also play it an opposite way and focus my attention on Morrigan... and think she's the only one that might understand the elves out of that group. And end up being more hostile than I was when I started.

 

DAO was simply like that in most things, not just the Dalish one. I really liked the mage background as well, whether human or elf. I liked the interactions with Jowan and simply the story of being a circle mage who I sympathize with like I do with Dalish. Victim of birth.

 

The good thing is, in DA:I the default background of Dalish Inquisitor is that he/she is from a clan that is known to be friendly to humans.

[winteriscoming]

Yeah maybe, but somethings cannot be changed and one of them is the fact that you are from a human friendly clan and you yourself probably engaged in trade with humans and talking with them in peace.

 

Roleplaying is good and all, but I think one must fully digest the background then start doing it. In DA:I a practical insular Dalish would be distrust of humans and being versed in their politics and not being afraid of befriending people to use them. The outright "OMG SHEMLEN" roleplay is kinda flawed in DA:I.

 

The good thing is, in DA:I the default background of Dalish Inquisitor is that he/she is from a clan that is known to be friendly to humans.

 

Keeper Istimaethoriel says they have largely been friendly towards humans, but they have also had to defend themselves against those who saw them only as easy prey. Additionally, in the note she can send to you as Lavellan, she mentions that it's better if they stay away because their hunters are quick to anger around humans...or something along those lines.

 

I had no problem playing an elf who started out as highly antagonistic towards humans, I felt it flowed pretty naturally. But it is nice that you can play it either way, gives good replayability IMO.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Well... In Cassandra and Leliana you have two devout Andrastian believers who are in your close circle and are both basically kind and accepting of others (well if you soften Leliana, anyway...) If you're looking for a personal reason for a Dalish Inquisitor to convert it might be that as they lose their faith they are inspired by one of them to take up Andrastianism...

 

Cass in particular was a wonderful example of a character whose faith is a positive experience, not only for her but for those around her.  My Lavellan was completely over even the concept of divinity by the end of DA:I.  But I think she developed a deep respect for the power and sincerity of Cass's faith, even if it wasn't for her.

 

And Leliana can undergo a similar crisis of faith to Lavellan.  How she resolves it depends on quizzy's actions, but IMO softened Leliana at least comes off relatively positive too.

[Lulupab]

Keeper Istimaethoriel says they have largely been friendly towards humans, but they have also had to defend themselves against those who saw them only as easy prey. Additionally, in the note she can send to you as Lavellan, she mentions that it's better if they stay away because their hunters are quick to anger around humans...or something along those lines.

 

I had no problem playing an elf who started out as highly antagonistic towards humans, I felt it flowed pretty naturally. But it is nice that you can play it either way, gives good replayability IMO.

 

Yeah there is a lot of opportunity at the beginning for being antagonistic towards humans, but its gone pretty fast specially when you move to skyhold.

 

Lavellan is the most human friendly we have seen so far, its not exactly heaven for humans, but better than most clans in this aspect.

[Lulupab]

Sorry. I just can't think of what else it is. I'll count you as an exception. Fewer people talked about Dalish before, but it's pretty dominant now. The main difference seems to be Solas. And when I run across threads, where a newbie asks what the best story to start with, in comes the Dalish/Solas suggestions. Like they're one and the same. I haven't seen a race tied with a romance option as much as this one.

 

I don't think people are talking about Dalish now because the quality of the story improved. In fact, I think DAO did a better job with all the origin stories (not just this one).

 

Solas Romace is only slightly better than a friendship between male elf Inquisitor and Solas. Regardless of Inquisitor gender, he is the only character who gets significant dialogue changes when the Inquisitor is an elf, even going through the limits of talking in elven and you understanding what he says in subtitles and answering in elven yourself.

[Serelir]

In fact, I think DAO did a better job with all the origin stories (not just this one).

I completely agree! Origin stories would have added so much to the Inquisitor's character. I've often felt uncomfortable at the lack of backstory for my character and how easily accepted she is as the head of the Inquisition. I have to use my imagination much more to arrive at her reasons for making choices, which could be good or bad depending how one likes to play. That's partly why I asked people for their stories, so that they could flesh out and explain their Dalish character.

 

Some of what we're seeing may also be that DAI has so many more players than DAO when it first came out, and, as you said, there's only one elf romance option, and only for female elves. What would have happened if the Inquisitor had to choose between Solas and a Dalish companion instead of the anti-elf Sera?

[Lulupab]

Fair enough. Personally, I don't like some things he says, so never end up friendly. His views sound like a repeat of ME3's Synthesis... except this is Fantasy Edition. And instead of AI, it's coexistence with Spirits. I want to shoot down everything Bioware is trying to tell me through him and Cole. If I get the opportunity.

 

Maybe... but you should know that he might be responsible for creating the veil lol. One of many speculations. Meaning there was a time the veil didn't exist and elves' magic as well as their immortality was linked to the fade. With the veil all of it was gone. It was his "betrayal" the elves talk about and call him dread wolf while he might have done a favor for the world.

[Serelir]

Fair enough. Personally, I don't like some things he says, so never end up friendly. His views sound like a repeat of ME3's Synthesis... except this is Fantasy Edition. And instead of AI, it's coexistence with Spirits. I want to shoot down everything Bioware is trying to tell me through him and Cole. If I get the opportunity.

I haven't played any of the MEs (I got that one listed in my profile for free), but when I first talked with Solas about spirits, I was reading a novel about AIs and thought about how people fear machine intelligence the same way they do spirits or daemons.

 

Also, Solas reminds me so much of my brother, which is why I have a hard time romancing him. My brother is a physicist. Everything gets a little weird on the subatomic level! I have to say, I find quantum entanglement to be a very romantic concept.

[winteriscoming]

I completely agree! Origin stories would have added so much to the Inquisitor's character. I've often felt uncomfortable at the lack of backstory for my character and how easily accepted she is as the head of the Inquisition. I have to use my imagination much more to arrive at her reasons for making choices, which could be good or bad depending how one likes to play. That's partly why I asked people for their stories, so that they could flesh out and explain their Dalish character.

Some of what we're seeing may also be that DAI has so many more players than DAO when it first came out, and, as you said, there's only one elf romance option, and only for female elves. What would have happened if the Inquisitor had to choose between Solas and a Dalish companion instead of the anti-elf Sera?

Origins stories for the inquisitor backgrounds would have been amazing. I basically write out a character manifesto and biography for each inquisitor I play because if I didnt I would take about 84829 hours to get through each convo and decision. I already replay almost every convo just to make sure I get it just right, or as close to "right" for my character as I can with the in-game dialogue options.

One of my favorite lines of antagonistic Dalish dialogue is in your first convo with Dorian in Haven/Skyhold and he asks if Dalish is the correct term and Lavellan can respond with something along the lines of "Is SLAVE what you were used to saying?" Not verbatim, obviously. But it was perfect because it was just what I saw Artair snarling at this Tevinter mage...who later became his boobear.

[raging_monkey]

Solas has the right idea IMO just needs better planning

[Lulupab]

They need to release a Solas DLC in my opinion. He is important enough for it and they don't have to kill him in it if they want to keep him for a later game. If such a DLC is planned, I think it will be the last DLC for DA:I.

 

I can see fighting him being an option.

[Sable Rhapsody]

One of my favorite lines of antagonistic Dalish dialogue is in your first convo with Dorian in Haven/Skyhold and he asks if Dalish is the correct term and Lavellan can respond with something along the lines of "Is SLAVE what you were used to saying?" Not verbatim, obviously. But it was perfect because it was just what I saw Artair snarling at this Tevinter mage...who later became his boobear.

 

Does that line only happen if you're playing male Lavellan?  I don't remember getting it with female Lavellan, though I might just be forgetting.

[MisterJB]

I think you know the answer to this, most would want an elven state. The previous elven lands are not really populated by humans, they are empty so people who want to escape or are outright traitors have fled there.

 

All the lands within the maps belong to one nation or the other. Some areas may be less populated than others but, ultimately, in order for there to be an elven state you have to carve it from human kingdoms.

[Vorathrad]

Some of what we're seeing may also be that DAI has so many more players than DAO when it first came out, and, as you said, there's only one elf romance option, and only for female elves. What would have happened if the Inquisitor had to choose between Solas and a Dalish companion instead of the anti-elf Sera?

 

This is a very good question; for me, Dalish companion all the way (provided he/she wasn't similar to Merrill) Same as it actually happened, I'd have ended up romancing Solas after reading about the romance. 

 

Fair enough. Personally, I don't like some things he says, so never end up friendly. His views sound like a repeat of ME3's Synthesis... except this is Fantasy Edition. And instead of AI, it's coexistence with Spirits. I want to shoot down everything Bioware is trying to tell me through him and Cole. If I get the opportunity.

 

There is a very fundamental difference: AI is created by organics; spirits exist, possibly previous to human/elven beings, and independent of them (in fact most of the time they are very negatively affected when interacting with mortals)

[Vorathrad]

It's not really those two things I have a problem with though. I was comparing it to Synthesis specifically. As in, how does it effect humans... how does it redefine life for everyone else? Synthesis changes everything... it's not just about being open to AI (which I can be). Same with removing the Veil.... what does that do exactly for the nature of life on Thedas? 

 

Other than that, I'm just a very sensory/grounded person. I hate the esoteric in general. I'm not a big Jung/MBTI fan, but I think it makes some interesting points about the different ways people perceive and interact with the world. Maybe Bioware needs to look into it. They're letting their Intutitive types (NT/NFs) run rampant. This stuff doesn't appeal to everyone. Or even the majority of people.

 

It's a fantasy setting. You're bound to find "esoteric" stuff of some kind: magic, demons/spirits, other realms, etc.

 

As for Synthesis, I don't think the same solution is presented. Synthesis is a proposed solution to the organics/synthetics conflict: to merge them into a new form of life. As for spirits and humans, they inhabit different realms; Solas introduces the possibility of them coexisting in the same space by saying that it used to be that way many years ago. There is no proposal of a new life form by merging spirits and mortals; in fact, when mergings do occur they have disastrous consequences except with extremely powerful beings such as Flemeth. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I'm curious, what exactly would be the ideal goals of the elven fans? Not just in the context of Inquisition but Thedas in general.

 

Speaking for myself, I'd ideally hope for a long term peace between humans (some of the anyway) and elves, so the Dalish would be able to practice their religion and culture without fear of interference from the Chantry or human mobs. A free and independent elven state would be good, but to me it's less of a priority than the other thing.