54 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

I'm a bit pressed for time so I will have a more information heavy post later for those interested but the essence is this: to compare the wage gap you have to both account for apples to apples comparisons (i.e., men and women in the same jobs and doing the same work) and for extrinsic social factors reducing compensation for women that are outside of their control (e.g. haircuts on compensation on the assumption women will want families).

Controlling for all of these factors is very difficult. The answer varies by industry. The public sector is often materially different from the private.

Fundamentally, however, you see a statistically significant difference in each industry when you control for most reasonable non-gender factors. That's the "wage gap". When you start trying to put a number on it you get difficulties relating to the issues I mentioned above.

[Abraham_uk]

I'm cutting, bro.

 

snip

 

I'm both sympathetic to MRA and Feminist social commentaries.

Not so much the lens in which they view the world, but I do find myself often in agreement with both.

 

I don't think we've achieved gender equality.

Both men and women have injustices against them.

 

I 100% agree with you. That said, I think we can discuss this in a separate thread.

Regarding whether or not women get paid less for the same work, time within same company etc...

I just don't know.

 

I don't know if it's even possible to obtain reliable data.

What happens is both sides cherry pick the statistics and use it to justify their point of view.

So when you see it that way, how can you possibly be sure which side of the argument is right?

 

 

 

That said:

 

1. Women do tend to do jobs that pay less than men.
2. They are more likely to work part time
3. They are less likely to go for managerial jobs
4. They are less likely to negotiate a pay rise

Are women less capable than men? Not really.

They make different choices as a general rule.

 

http://www4.ncsu.edu...eer(SIOP07).pdf

https://sociology.st...assessments.pdf

 

I know people are going to be offended by this.

So I want to make one thing clear. Men and women are as capable as each other.

They can and do excel at anything.

[ruggly]

Perhaps. How does Siri feel about it?

 

 

I want some cries with that hamburglance.

[Eternal Phoenix]

The suspicious China man returns!

[Melra]

As far as I know, most things have been changed more towards the "female" standard. Whether it is workplaces, business in general and education. If men raise their issues, they mostly get ignored. People are so damn focused on this wage gap or want to have a female quota for leadership positions, even if the woman available for the position is completely incompetent and there's a competent male for the position.



 

[Voxr]

Because this won't devolve into a pointless, annoying SJW vs equally annoying Anti-SJW debacle...

[Seboist]

The "wage gap" is another one of the great feminist lies, along with "one in five women are raped". If it were true, companies would be rushing to hire women over men, since after all, a lot of them are the same ones that have no qualms with using overseas manufacturers and illegal aliens that work for peanuts over domestic workers.

[Akrabra]

In Norway it doesn't have anything to say for what wage you earn. It depends on your job and what kind of benefits it has. Women and men have the same rights and earn the same amount of money in the same job. I believe men dominate some of the executive positions in huge companies, but that is a trend that dies out slowly. It should always be the best person for the job. 

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

s'why i prefere Teal Dear for my videos. 

 

anyhoo dat Fallout 4 trailer man. 

[mybudgee]

LoL

 

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

No matter the socioeconomic group you compare them to, neckbeards earn less. Fact.

*tips fedora while nodding respectfully in your direction*

As for the topic, there is a wage gap. I remember watching a video which had very detailed statistics on the matter. Could've been a CHS video since she always uses credible data to support her arguments, don't remember. But the data it was working off stated that when making apples to apples comparisons, it's nothing like the 22-23% figure feminists have popularised. It's something like 3-4% in the industries that the video was talking about.

So, it exists, but nowhere near the magnitude that feminists and the media have been spouting. Still, the fact that it exists at all means that there's still progress to be made.

[Dovahzeymahlkey]

ya...no. Im not going to believe some youtube outrage fuel video. Give me statistics and facts from credible sources like your revenue agency or some government wing.

 

inb4 lock.

[KT Chong]

 

P.S. Shocked that this hasn't been locked, given that bioware is a superlib SJW.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

The Lobby is rather "redpilled" compared to the rest of the forums.

[mybudgee]

The Lobby is rather "redpilled" compared to the rest of the forums.

Agreed

[Degenerate Rakia Time]

eh, how would i know, i pay all my employees like crap

[In Exile]

The Lobby is rather "redpilled" compared to the rest of the forums.

 

What? Is there some Matrix reference I'm missing?

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

What? Is there some Matrix reference I'm missing?

Yep. It's terminology used in the MRA, PUA and /pol/ communities, all with different connotations but all referring to the Blue v Red Pill scene in the Matrix.

[In Exile]

Yep. It's terminology used in the MRA, PUA and /pol/ communities, all with different connotations but all referring to the Blue v Red Pill scene in the Matrix.

 

Yeah, I'm going to elect to go nowhere near that one. I'd wager I can guess what they're using that scene for though. 

[Dobbysaurus]

Of course they make less. No one pays them to be in the kitchen making sammiches. Unless they work at Subway, but most likely that's a minimum wage job only.

[Addai]

In my experience, women do end up on the lower end of the pay scales in most companies. This is partly self-selection - women tend to favor support roles. I think women are also more likely to take what's offered them rather than negotiate for higher wages. That creates an expectation that perpetuates it, however, and makes it difficult for the rare woman who actually wants an aggressive, high paying job to get a fair deal.

 

That just means you have to know what you want and work harder for it, though. Plenty of companies are now primed to give a woman a chance to prove herself. Don't cry about inequality. There's no crying in baseball.

[Hrulj]

Several great studies and videos explain the issue in great deal. 

Man and woman working in the same company, with same experience and qualifications, for the same amount of time and effort, will earn the same amount of money. 

If a man works 8h and 4 overtime, and woman gets clocked at 8, then of course there is difference in the wage. But it is not wage gap, its effort gap. 

 

What the feminist studies are doing, is calculate all female income, calculate all male income, divide it by population and get a number and compare. 

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

YES.

 

WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO ABOUT IT, EH?

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

[Billy-the-Squid]

For me it's a question of:

Do women get paid less for exactly the same work, within the same company, for the same time spent?

 

I don't know.

What I do know is that in the UK this is flat out illegal.

 

There a film called Made in  Dagenham which is about women fighting for equal pay in the 1960s.

 

Look up Equal Pay Act 1970 and The Equality Act 2010.

 

http://www.equalityh...uality-act-2010

http://www.legislati...k/ukpga/1970/41

 

 

I am not making this up. Here in the UK this is flat out illegal. You can be sued and even go to prison over this.

If you are getting paid less without any reasonable justification, go straight to an employment tribunal.

This is considered unlawful and abusive here. No reasonable person would stand for this and heck there are cases where people have gone to the Employment Tribunal.

 

http://www.personnel...ases-look-2015/

 

Also check out this link.

 

http://www.equalityh...ss-someone-else

 

I hope this has been helpful.

 

It's not just the UK, most of the western world has it's own kind of legislation which covers this. 

 

Yet dense crusaders will insist that women earn less than men and it is an abhorrent thing which must be corrected. It has nothing to to with ability, experience, time away for children, maternity leave, willingness to work long hours, overtime, type of fields they work in etc. clearly, that would just be silly. 

 

(I work for a chartered accountancy firm and funnily enough I earn more than the girls in the HR department. Shocking I know! Clearly they should be paid as much as me for answering phones, based on the fact they have a vagina. 

 

The argument from feminists is that they should currently earn more than men based on the level of work they do to make it "equal", plus keep all the benefits they currently have. Pfffffffffffffttt equality my arse, they wanted equal opportunity? Welcome to the world of long hours, stress, deadlines, heavy work loads and unpaid overtime. One the plus side the opportunity for advancement and the pay is better, on the bad side your life outside of work is largely over.