118 réponses à ce sujet

[Deerber]

@deerber

 

Because no guns actually work that way. They don't today, and they certainly wouldn't 200 years from now. The Typhoon is basically the Mass Effect equivalent of the M249 SAW. It's been in service for thirty years at this point, and it doesn't have to ramp up. And the reason for that is that it's not practical. It needs to fire when you pull the trigger, period. It needs to start spraying that metal right away. The ramp-up has no place.

 

Here's the thing. Weapons are chosen for military service. Sometimes they last a while, then they're replaced with something better. Sometimes they stay in service for a long time and continually upgrade and iterate, like the M16. The thing is, the weapons are produced based on the needs of the warfighters. It's not just some company making something in a vacuum and then handing it to soldiers and saying, 'here's what he have, take it and shut up.' It doesn't work that way. Weapons are produced to meet the needs of soldiers in the field and chosen by a committee based on their viability. And companies compete for contracts to fulfill a need. There are many factors that determine what is chosen, but functionality is a big one. And then there are often 'shootouts,' no pun intended, where multiple options are tested head-to-head from multiple competitors bringing their potential product to the table, vying for the contract. And if it doesn't make the cut, they don't get the contract. They've been trying for some time to find a viable replacement for the M4A1, but haven't found anything yet that is worth the upgrade.

 

With that in mind, I can tell you that the Typhoon never would have even made it that far. Not with that ramp-up mechanic. It would have been rejected outright, and for very good reason.

 

While I won't argue with your arguments, since you're obviously much more knowledgeable about real life weapons than I am, let me just ask you one simple question...

 

Do you really think all guns used in the 17th century had similar characteristics to the ones we have today?

[RidiculousMammal]

Typhoon > Revenant + Mattock combined.

 

  It's just so much fun on pure weapon kits who don't care about weight (Destroyer, Demolisher) eventhough its a middling gun at best.

 

  Harrier on the other hand just knocks them all down.

[Matthias King]

While I won't argue with your arguments, since you're obviously much more knowledgeable about real life weapons than I am, let me just ask you one simple question...

 

Do you really think all guns used in the 17th century had similar characteristics to the ones we have today?

 

I see the point you're trying to make and I understand where you're coming from, but here's the thing. They didn't have the same characteristics, they have better ones. You don't go backward. That's my point.

 

Weapons get introduced essentially for one of three reasons. 1) to replace a currently serving weapon with something better, that fulfills the need more fully, has better functionality, etc... 2) to fulfill a need not currently being met. 3) to fulfill an emerging or anticipated need.

 

In none of those cases would a weapon that is worse than the current one replace the current one.

 

The Typhoon, a 2186 equivalent of a weapon designed in the 1980's, would not exist in the form we see it in the game. It just wouldn't happen. The US Defense Department has an element within that decides what our soldiers are armed with, and they do so based on cost, functionality, effectiveness, etc. I'm certain the Alliance would have something like that. They would have to. Either part of the Alliance military structure, or the Alliance parliament. Somewhere within their ranks there would be a group that makes those determinations, and they would do so in the same way our DOD does. They would commission the production of weapons to fulfill a role in combat, and companies would offer their contenders. Then tests would be run, competitions would be conducted, to determine what, if any, is a suitable candidate. Then a determination would be made.

 

At no point would the Typhoon ever be a candidate for consideration. The people in charge of making that determination would not accept that ramp-up function. They simply wouldn't. Because that functionally has no reason to be there. But more than that, it's a danger to soldiers on the battlefield.

[capn233]

Ramp is not there for realism.  It is there because of "rule of cool" and some balancing purposes.

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

Spring loaded harpoon guns with instant reload are totally realistic, too.

[Matthias King]

Spring loaded harpoon guns with instant reload are totally realistic, too.

 

I was only considering the Revenant/Typhoon original topic. The harpoon gun and spike thrower are definitely on the list of unrealistic, though for a different reason. But even if you accept their basic premise, the fact that they rely on thermal clips and never require reloading of harpoons or spikes is very unrealistic, as well as not in keeping with the lore at all.

 

And @capn233, I agree that it's there for 'balance' somehow, because reasons. However, I don't see how that could be considered 'rule of cool' since the ramp-up is anything but.

 

Two of the weapons I was looking forward to most before their release was the Striker and the Typhoon. Both turned out to be huge disappointments once I actually got to use them. And into the dusty back corner of the armory they went.
 

[Swan Killer]

The Revenant is much as an AoE gun as the Tempest... It's not. Just because you can't aim with it, it doesn't make it an 'Great AoE gun'.

 

Its damage is underwhelming, and I find its sound quite annoying too. The only good thing I can say about it, that it's kinda sexy-lookin',

[q5tyhj]

The Revenant is much as an AoE gun as the Tempest... It's not. Just because you can't aim with it, it doesn't make it an 'Great AoE gun'.

Exactly. Having garbage accuracy isn't the same as having an area of effect, although I suppose I can see how one could mistakenly conflate the two. 

[Cyonan]

On paper its not aoe but in practice you can aim at the lower middle of a mob and the sheer AMOUNT of bullets being sprayed means its guaranteed for multiple headshots. Just don't aim directly at the head.

As for the kickback, its really annoying with mouse and keyboard but really easy to manage with a controller because you can just hold the thumb stick at a slightly downward tilt to offset the recoil while firing. As opposed to mouse where you have to be constantpy moving it down.

 

I can get a lot more headshots by aiming for the head with an accurate weapon. The recoil is pretty easy to handle even on keyboard/mouse, to be honest.

 

but the Revenant is still as much an AoE weapon as taking the Typhoon and just moving the cursor across the entire group of enemies to hit all of them with different bullets. The Typhoon would probably be more effective at it too since it does better damage.

[Silvair]

I can get a lot more headshots by aiming for the head with an accurate weapon. The recoil is pretty easy to handle even on keyboard/mouse, to be honest.

but the Revenant is still as much an AoE weapon as taking the Typhoon and just moving the cursor across the entire group of enemies to hit all of them with different bullets. The Typhoon would probably be more effective at it too since it does better damage.

. Whatever floats your boat I suppose. The Typhoon doesn't suit the needs of my play style while the Revenant does. That's all it really comes down to. Typhoon is better single target damage but revenant is better at raining hell down on entire waves. Love my Revastator so much

When I have Revenant on Destroyer with devastator mode and hawk missiles spamming, I feel like







On the typhoon being unrealistic, I consider it more a condensed mini gun than straight assault rifle, in which case the windup DOES make some sense.

[Swan Killer]

Could you make a video of your Destroyer/Revenant 'raining hell down on entire waves' pls? I really want to see what I'm doing wrong!

[q5tyhj]

. Whatever floats your boat I suppose. The Typhoon doesn't suit the needs of my play style while the Revenant does. That's all it really comes down to. Typhoon is better single target damage but revenant is better at raining hell down on entire waves. 

No, the Typhoon is better than the Revenant at "raining hell down on entire waves" (if by this you mean actually hitting and killing stuff). But you don't need to keep making these bogus arguments about why the Revenant is objectively better, in some sense (it isn't); there's nothing wrong with preferring certain weapons purely as a matter of taste.

[Silvair]

Could you make a video of your Destroyer/Revenant 'raining hell down on entire waves' pls? I really want to see what I'm doing wrong!

Two problems with that

1) I need to reunlock manifest after starting over again on PC

2) no idea how to record videos.

[PatrickBateman]

Exactly. Each gun has its own uses. as I said, I usually put cryo or explosive ammo to flash freeze entire waves/infinite stagger them with nonstop heavy machine gun fire. Makes me feel like a one man army when I put the Rev on my Destroyer.



I think I would have liked the harrier more if it was burst fire/semi instead of full auto though. At full auto it also feels a lot less accurate than the mattock.

Taking out entire spawns on gold using the Revenant with cryo or explosive! ammo?

Ok.........

[Silvair]

No, the Typhoon is better than the Revenant at "raining hell down on entire waves" (if by this you mean actually hitting and killing stuff). But you don't need to keep making these bogus arguments about why the Revenant is objectively better, in some sense (it isn't); there's nothing wrong with preferring certain weapons purely as a matter of taste.

The issue comes from people trying to pretend non op weapons are crap when they really aren't. The revenant is still a beast, just doesn't have raw damage output of typhoon, though all the OTHER traits aside from damage per bullet are never taken into consideration by anyone which irks me. I'm demonstrating how I personally get the most out of the revenant. As opposed to the Typhoon which I personally don't have much use for. May slap it on the Tsol though. Still prefer Revastator though (that's a fun portmanteau lol)

Same deal with harrier. More raw damage output, but I don't like the low clip size/less accuracy/dissatisfying shot sound in comparison to the Mattock so I stick with the latter.

[Silvair]

Taking out entire spawns on gold using the Revenant with cryo or explosive! ammo?

Ok.........

Um...yeah its not exactly a stretch. Hawk finishes off frozen and staggered enemies that bullets dont, doing more and more focused fire as you close in with the enemy unable to really fight back due to dodges and stagger. Can literally just walk forward while holding down the trigger.

[Matthias King]

Even if you consider the Typhoon a minigun, that still doesn't make sense because it has no barrels to start spinning up. And even with miniguns like the GAU-19, the wind-up is extremely brief, almost instantaneous. I don't mean to harp on it, so I won't keep after it. It just something that really irritated me in the worst way when I first tried it and found that it had that. Just like the Striker.

[Cyonan]

. Whatever floats your boat I suppose. The Typhoon doesn't suit the needs of my play style while the Revenant does. That's all it really comes down to. Typhoon is better single target damage but revenant is better at raining hell down on entire waves. Love my Revastator so much

 

You can use whatever you want and feel like the most epic person in the galaxy with the Revenant if you wish.

 

Although in my experience in both single and multi target situations the Revenant is outclassed by the Typhoon, Lancer, Hurricane, and Blood Pack Punisher when it comes to bullet hoses.

 

It's not that the Revenant is a garbage weapon or that you only need to use the optimal weapons, but the damage is too little for it to be able to compete with the big boys.

[Silvair]

You can use whatever you want and feel like the most epic person in the galaxy with the Revenant if you wish.

Although in my experience in both single and multi target situations the Revenant is outclassed by the Typhoon, Lancer, Hurricane, and Blood Pack Punisher when it comes to bullet hoses.

It's not that the Revenant is a garbage weapon or that you only need to use the optimal weapons, but the damage is too little for it to be able to compete with the big boys.

Oh I know its outright damage is lacking compared to some other weapons, that's why I'm talking about a suppression fire approach. A destroyer can keep firing and between revanant and hawk missiles most enemies becomes completely locked down with nowhere to run and can't fight back. And I LOVE it for that. Such a Juggernaut play style. The bullets and missiles just never stop lol. Can't get the same effect with the typhoon. Its ONLY good for outright damage, no utility whatsoever.