To those who say that not being able to SS Atlases is a bug, didn't Biovar say back then, that it's intentional, since the Shadow never should've been able to do that in the first place?
I used to make Atlases look so stupid when I would Shadow Strike them back then ..I would do it...wait for it to turn around then Strike it again..and keep doing that until it died.. I remember hearing people laugh when they saw me doing that to it.
Ahh the shadow. The badass space ninja showing phantoms how its done. Always ran the shield damage so I can wreck phantoms in melee battles, even on host. Hands down my most enjoyed kit to have fun with. I just wish I could SS atlases but hey, shotgun works too.
This is why all arguments against the Shadows awesomeness are invalid. 
What? Sorry, but that's just far from being true, in my opinion and experience.
But what part of it isn't true? If you get a Phantom and 2 Goons right next to each other, you can SS (OSK) the Phantom and Heavy Melee (OSK) the 2 Goons in just a couple of seconds, and it honestly doesn't take a ton of skill to even do it. It does require the enemies to be in close proximity to each other though, and adding a second Phantom into the mix could result in you being downed before you can even complete the task. Or if you time your SS just as a Scion is firing a burst at a teammate, you can SS and follow up with 2 heavy melees still under the cloak bonus, which will net you at least 20k armor damage in just a few seconds (properly-specced Shadow heavy melee can do around 5-6000 armor damage). Again, it's highly dependent on the situation though.
My point is that the Shadow has the ability for insanely fast TTK, but only in the exact right situation. You may only get that situation a couple of times a game. It's not like a Javelin GI which has a fast TTK in almost any situation, or a grenade spammer that can take out multiple mooks just by chucking a couple of grenades.
The Shadow's TTK is actually really fast. The problem with the Shadow isn't slow TTK, it's that her TTK is highly situational. For example, you can take out a Phantom and 2 Dragoons bunched together with SS and Heavy Melee as fast or faster than any kit on the game other than maybe one of the Cluster Grenade kits or Cain spam, but that ability is highly dependent on situation and enemy positioning. You can do a crapton of damage to a Scion (over 20K) in just a couple of seconds, but the Scion has to be in a position where other enemies aren't going to shoot you in the back and down you in 2 seconds after you de-cloak.
I have never tried to solo with the Shadow, and I don't think I ever will.
I've done Gold with her a few times solo. You better have a damn Geth Scanner or you'll get your ass handed to you. You have to cloak in cover then SS. If you cloak in LOS then try to SS, it might end with you with a shield or sword shoved up your ass when all aggro is focused on you.
But what part of it isn't true? If you get a Phantom and 2 Goons right next to each other, you can SS (OSK) the Phantom and Heavy Melee (OSK) the 2 Goons in just a couple of seconds, and it honestly doesn't take a ton of skill to even do it. It does require the enemies to be in close proximity to each other though, and adding a second Phantom into the mix could result in you being downed before you can even complete the task. Or if you time your SS just as a Scion is firing a burst at a teammate, you can SS and follow up with 2 heavy melees still under the cloak bonus, which will net you at least 20k armor damage in just a few seconds (properly-specced Shadow heavy melee can do around 5-6000 armor damage). Again, it's highly dependent on the situation though.
My point is that the Shadow has the ability for insanely fast TTK, but only in the exact right situation. You may only get that situation a couple of times a game. It's not like a Javelin GI which has a fast TTK in almost any situation, or a grenade spammer that can take out multiple mooks just by chucking a couple of grenades.
Time to cloak and Teleport for that initial SS is longer than nade spam then you have a little longer transit to the next spawn because you are teleporting farther away from the next likely spawn. A drell adept in example is reave, throw cluster or two then on to the next spawn in less than the time it takes the shadow to teleport. QMI and other high damage nade spammers are the same way.
^ Nade spammers. Is there anything they can't do?
^ Nade spammers. Is there anything they can't do?
nope.
I've done Gold with her a few times solo. You better have a damn Geth Scanner or you'll get your ass handed to you. You have to cloak in cover then SS. If you cloak in LOS then try to SS, it might end with you with a shield or sword shoved up your ass when all aggro is focused on you.
Well, why would you use that kit for solo? Or play solo in a MP game anyway? 
During solo play I usually stagger or stun my target first so it can not attack when I use SS... much safer that way. Ideally you attack from out of LoS, but that's difficult to do when everything on the map comes walking towards you.
Time to cloak and Teleport for that initial SS is longer than nade spam then you have a little longer transit to the next spawn because you are teleporting farther away from the next likely spawn. A drell adept in example is reave, throw cluster or two then on to the next spawn in less than the time it takes the shadow to teleport. QMI and other high damage nade spammers are the same way.
Well, it is longer than nade spam, true. You need ~2sec for the cloaked SS (not that cloak takes any time at all) and one sec for nade spam.
I'm pretty sure I already mentioned that in a post above... Shadow has a high TTK but not on Talon GI or nade spam level.
Teleporting into a spawn is suicide, you can't take on more than 3 enemies at once and even that requires optimal circumstances. Shadow is an assassin, not a frontline warrior.
Time to cloak and Teleport for that initial SS is longer than nade spam then you have a little longer transit to the next spawn because you are teleporting farther away from the next likely spawn. A drell adept in example is reave, throw cluster or two then on to the next spawn in less than the time it takes the shadow to teleport. QMI and other high damage nade spammers are the same way.
never mind resorting to nade spammers, I can kill that phantom and those two goons faster with the Shadow herself by simply going sniper instead of SS/Melee spec and shooting them all in the head. Could probably have two of them down before the SS even connects, and that's assuming that the build isn't using the BW.
SS build is reasonably good damage for the amount of skill input required to play it in a team setting (not a lot), but its disadvantages become woefully apparent when the aggro isn't being dumped on teammates while the Shadow sits in cloak. It's just another fun and unique, but ultimately suboptimal build. Claiming it to have "really fast TTK" is puzzling, not that it needs to wipe spawns in 3 seconds justify its existence.
SS build is reasonably good damage for the amount of skill input required to play it in a team setting (not a lot)
Gonna have to try harder than that.
never mind resorting to nade spammers, I can kill that phantom and those two goons faster with the Shadow herself by simply going sniper instead of SS/Melee spec and shooting them all in the head. Could probably have two of them down before the SS even connects, and that's assuming that the build isn't using the BW.
SS build is reasonably good damage for the amount of skill input required to play it in a team setting (not a lot), but its disadvantages become woefully apparent when the aggro isn't being dumped on teammates while the Shadow sits in cloak. It's just another fun and unique, but ultimately suboptimal build. Claiming it to have "really fast TTK" is puzzling, not that it needs to wipe spawns in 3 seconds justify its existence.
I only claimed that the Shadow had a fast TTK in very specific situations, against specific enemies, and my post was riddled with disclaimers. The Shadow has extremely high theoretical damage potential that is practically limited in most cases by the fact that maximizing her damage output requires her to be (1) physically face to face with the enemy, and (2) exposed to fire from other enemies, without any way to stagger them. These are not limits that other high-damage potential kits have, as they sit in soft cover with RHA and switch targets without having to physically relocate, which is why they consistently do more damage.
The Shadow needs a little extra time in order to look so f***ing cool and fabulous doing what she does. 
All those scrub kits miss out on the 4x style-point multiplier.
But what part of it isn't true? If you get a Phantom and 2 Goons right next to each other, you can SS (OSK) the Phantom and Heavy Melee (OSK) the 2 Goons in just a couple of seconds, and it honestly doesn't take a ton of skill to even do it. It does require the enemies to be in close proximity to each other though, and adding a second Phantom into the mix could result in you being downed before you can even complete the task. Or if you time your SS just as a Scion is firing a burst at a teammate, you can SS and follow up with 2 heavy melees still under the cloak bonus, which will net you at least 20k armor damage in just a few seconds (properly-specced Shadow heavy melee can do around 5-6000 armor damage). Again, it's highly dependent on the situation though.
My point is that the Shadow has the ability for insanely fast TTK, but only in the exact right situation. You may only get that situation a couple of times a game. It's not like a Javelin GI which has a fast TTK in almost any situation, or a grenade spammer that can take out multiple mooks just by chucking a couple of grenades.
I was specifically refering to the fact that you said the Shadow would have a faster TTK than any kit apart from cluster grenades and cain mine ones, in that situation. And I do disagree, as I think pretty much any kit with almost any kind of nade and/or a decent gun and decent gun bonuses would kill those 3 faster.
I agree with the general tone of the post that the Shadow's TTK is highly dependant on the situation. But that is also true for many other kits in the game.
Sorry, I guess I should have been cleared in my previous post.
Gonna have to try harder than that.
I wasn't trolling. Do you honestly think it's difficult to play a SS build with duration and bonus power when there are 3 teammates to dump all the aggro on?
This isn't an insult, pretty much any infiltrator is easy in a team setting, especially ones with strong powers that don't break cloak (DAI, QMI, TGI and AIU, etc.), and those are all more effective as well.
QMR, do you think duration cloak with bonus power is superior to the max dmg build?
no, duration is always inferior for anything but hiding on every infiltrator, and bonus power is inefficient when following SS with a HM or unloading your gun does better damage and cloak's cooldown is so short anyway.
...especially ones with strong powers that don't break cloak (DAI, QMI, TGI and AIU, etc.),
What powers do AIU and TGI have that don't break cloak?
What powers do AIU and TGI have that don't break cloak?
Repair Matrix and Stimulant Packs?
One thing I'll say about Duration/Bonus Power - it doesn't always mean "less damage." Yes, your SS will do less damage, but if you take Bonus Power and you uncloak after a SS by shooting or using heavy melee, your cloak bonus for that will last longer, which could allow you to get in an additional heavy melee or a couple of additional shots under the cloak bonus. It may actually result in more damage. It may also result in you not getting killed right after you SS (which also means more damage). Seeing as how a Duration/Bonus Power cloak will still let you OHK everything you need to OHK, I think taking R4 Damage or skipping R6 in Cloak doesn't make any sense.
Repair Matrix and Stimulant Packs?
I assumed that's what QMR was refrring to, but I asked the question because those aren't powers comparable to Arc Nades or Recon Mine. RM gives no direct damage and SPs only give a tiny damage boost and even then only if you spec them one way.
no, duration is always inferior for anything but hiding on every infiltrator, and bonus power is inefficient when following SS with a HM or unloading your gun does better damage and cloak's cooldown is so short anyway.
What build are you using that SS does less damage than heavy melee?
The Shadow needs a little extra time in order to look so f***ing cool and fabulous doing what she does.
All those scrub kits miss out on the 4x style-point multiplier.
8x if you use the freaking Golden Gun!
no, duration is always inferior for anything but hiding on every infiltrator, and bonus power is inefficient when following SS with a HM or unloading your gun does better damage and cloak's cooldown is so short anyway.
Seeing as how a Duration/Bonus Power cloak will still let you OHK everything you need to OHK, I think taking R4 Damage or skipping R6 in Cloak doesn't make any sense.
I agree with Miniditka77 on this one, as I've always done with anyone who recommends Duration Cloak on the Shadow - it's the closest thing to a 'free' power evolution in the game. She deserves to be treated as a unique case among Infiltrators, who gains nothing of any significance by choosing damage. It's not just a noob-friendly or cowardly tactic because it actually makes sense and it's pretty much undeniable that the extra duration can come in extremely handy during tricky device hacks. I never feel more team-oriented than when I play the Shadow (of any of the Infiltrators) because she only uses the extra duration when it's to the team's advantage. Using SS and standing around waiting to use it again is not what I'm advocating at all - the only time I ever really do that is on the multiple Phantom waves, because on or off-host she is a Phantom-killer extraordinaire - the best in the game, no ifs, no buts, no maybes.
I agree with Miniditka77 on this one, as I've always done with anyone who recommends Duration Cloak on the Shadow - it's the closest thing to a 'free' power evolution in the game. She deserves to be treated as a unique case among Infiltrators, who gains nothing of any significance by choosing damage. It's not just a noob-friendly or cowardly tactic because it actually makes sense and it's pretty much undeniable that the extra duration can come in extremely handy during tricky device hacks. I never feel more team-oriented than when I play the Shadow (of any of the Infiltrators) because she only uses the extra duration when it's to the team's advantage. Using SS and standing around waiting to use it again is not what I'm advocating at all - the only time I ever really do that is on the multiple Phantom waves, because on or off-host she is a Phantom-killer extraordinaire - the best in the game, no ifs, no buts, no maybes.
I know exactly what you mean and would also prefer using her with duration
(actually, when I did this, it was the first time to feel like a "REAL" infiltrator that plays a role in an RPG)
However, I want those 40% extra damage for the cases I am facing an Atlas, for example.
When you have a reliable team, duration is great. But I usually spec my characters for the (worse)PUG-scenario.
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