124 réponses à ce sujet

[Cryos_Feron]

by the way:

 

How do people handle a Phantom Death Squad without "bonus power" well?

 

For this particular situation I take it.

[Cryos_Feron]

@DaemionMoadrin:

 

You take Martial Artist in Sword Mastery Tree.

 

But If I recall correctly it doesnt do anything for Shadow Strike.

I ran some tests for that a while back.

 

Are you sure that it works for SS ??

 

 

btw, now that I took Speed instead, SS is NOTICEABLY faster.

It is very easy then to do 2 SS within a short cloak period

[GruntKitterhand]

However, I want those 40% extra damage for the cases I am facing an Atlas, for example.

 

Piranha + Omniblade is all you really need for Atlases, but with the addition of any kind of teammate debuff they just melt before your eyes.

[Catastrophy]

Piranha + Omniblade is all you really need for Atlases, but with the addition of any kind of teammate debuff they just melt before your eyes.

Blade! Blade and stagger! How is blasting away with an autoshotgun finesse? The Shadow dances with her enemies, she doesn't seal-club them.

[Quarian Master Race]

What build are you using that SS does less damage than heavy melee?

You can probably do 2 or 3 heavy melees in the time it takes for the SS animation to finish. The latter is only efficient to use at longer ranges, unless you take duration and then your HM doesn't have the oomph to actually kill things in one hit.

 

I agree with Miniditka77 on this one, as I've always done with anyone who recommends Duration Cloak on the Shadow - it's the closest thing to a 'free' power evolution in the game.  She deserves to be treated as a unique case among Infiltrators, who gains nothing of any significance by choosing damage.  It's not just a noob-friendly or cowardly tactic because it actually makes sense and it's pretty much undeniable that the extra duration can come in extremely handy during tricky device hacks.  I never feel more team-oriented than when I play the Shadow (of any of the Infiltrators) because she only uses the extra duration when it's to the team's advantage. Using SS and standing around waiting to use it again is not what I'm advocating at all - the only time I ever really do that is on the multiple Phantom waves, because on or off-host she is a Phantom-killer extraordinaire - the best in the game, no ifs, no buts, no maybes. 

Best melee Shadow I've seen played was Sterling's, and he takes damage all around (armor damage, and no shield drain). Runs a disciple w/ omniblade and I've seen him do 2 SS in a single cloak cycle. The thing actually does an pretty good job of staying relevant in terms of damage output if the rest of the lobby isn't just running tons of cheese, well at least when he's not bleeding out . Can't say that for many other melee only builds (maybe the Kroguard)

You may still be able to one hit mooks without it, but you can't do the same to Ravagers, and bring Brutes/scions within a couple bars of death for an easy finish. Further, it still affects your gun damage for targets like atlases, where the extra 40% will undeniably help. Damage still has more benefit. I can see duration being of more use on devices and multi revives, but that goes for any other infiltrator as well.

[Catastrophy]

You can probably do 2 or 3 heavy melees in the time it takes for the SS animation to finish. The latter is only efficient to use at longer ranges, unless you take duration and then your HM doesn't have the oomph to actually kill things in one hit.

 

Best melee Shadow I've seen played was Sterling's, and he takes damage all around (armor damage, and no shield drain). Runs a disciple w/ omniblade and I've seen him do 2 SS in a single cloak cycle. The thing actually does an pretty good job of staying relevant in terms of damage output if the rest of the lobby isn't just running tons of cheese, well at least when he's not bleeding out . Can't say that for many other melee kits (maybe the Kroguard)

You may still be able to one hit mooks without it, but you can't do the same to Ravagers, and bring Brutes/scions within a couple bars of death for an easy finish. Further, it still affects your gun damage for targets like atlases, where the extra 40% will undeniably help. Damage still has more benefit. I can see duration being of more use on devices and multi revives, but that goes for any other infiltrator as well.

While you still keep arguing about it - I have long pressed the spacebar to continue and have fun. THAT's what I call efficient.

[Miniditka77]

I know exactly what you mean and would also prefer using her with duration
(actually, when I did this, it was the first time to feel like a "REAL" infiltrator that plays a role in an RPG)

 

However, I want those 40% extra damage for the cases I am facing an Atlas, for example.

 

When you have a reliable team, duration is great. But I usually spec my characters for the (worse)PUG-scenario.

 

I deal with facing Atlases by bringing a high DPS gun like the Raider or Piranha with AP ammo.  Even with a 40% damage bonus, those guns will chew through an Atlas really quickly.  Praetorians are actually the biggest problem enemy for the Shadow, IMO.  It's really unsafe to SS them, especially when they're targeting you or you're off-host, and you don't get double-hits to supplement your DPS.

 

EDIT:  Taking Damage definitely improves your potential killing power, obviously.  And if you're awesome and rarely ever screw up, then Damage will almost certainly be the better choice.  But Duration gives you a margin for error that I need, and most players probably need.  The Shadow in general needs a bigger margin for error than other kits because (like I said before), playing her as a SS/Melee character requires you to put her in the enemies' faces with barely any shields and no stagger power, teleport dodge, or invulnerability frames.  One poorly-timed Marauder Elbow and it's over.

[DaemionMoadrin]

@DaemionMoadrin:

 

You take Martial Artist in Sword Mastery Tree.

 

But If I recall correctly it doesnt do anything for Shadow Strike.

I ran some tests for that a while back.

 

Are you sure that it works for SS ??

 

 

btw, now that I took Speed instead, SS is NOTICEABLY faster.

It is very easy then to do 2 SS within a short cloak period

 

I am quite sure the buff from Martial Artist increases SS damage. Even if it doesn't work, the sword remains my number one way of dealing damage. Heavy melee does a little less damage than SS but is much faster and can hit multiple enemies (although I have never managed more than 2 at once). When SS on a Phantom fails because of her bubble, a quick heavy melee attack will still kill her... provided you keep the buff up most of the time.

 

I don't know if SS is really faster because the 5b evo increased your movement speed... honestly, I can't really imagine that but if you say so, perhaps we need to test that. I guess using an AM3 would make more of a difference then.

 

Duration vs. Damage: I'm firmly in the damage camp. One shouldn't underestimate what a CM4 and Shield Drain evo can do to keep the Shadow alive. If you need to stagger something, then headshots will work 99% of the time. Granted, against mooks your attacks will be overkill but there are enough units on the map that you need to remove quickly (Ravagers & Scions) that you'll be glad for every little bit of damage you can put into your opening attacks. There's not much point to staying alive a few seconds longer if the enemies do the same.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

faster and can hit multiple enemies (although I have never managed more than 2 at once).

 

I live for those opportunities to decapitate 3 mooks at once.

 

 

 

The obsessive desire to capitalize on such opportunities may be responsible for a disturbingly high percentage of my deaths.

[Miniditka77]

 

I live for those opportunities to decapitate 3 mooks at once.

 

 

 

The obsessive desire to capitalize on such opportunities may be responsible for a disturbingly high percentage of my deaths.

 

I know - I got 2 Husks and a Cannibal once, and I just keep chasing that dragon.  My personal favorite is getting 2 Pyros and 1 Hunter in 2 Heavy Melees (preceded by a cloaked ES to stagger them and drop their shields a bit).

[Cryos_Feron]

I don't know if SS is really faster because the 5b evo increased your movement speed... honestly, I can't really imagine that but if you say so, perhaps we need to test that.

it is faster, believe me.

feels even much more that only 10%

[Cryos_Feron]

I deal with facing Atlases by bringing a high DPS gun like the Raider or Piranha with AP ammo.

the Raider is great but the accuracy does not favour my personal playstyle.

the Piranha would be a better choice, however, I am using the melee mod, and with the Piranha the weight glitch does not work.
I know! I am a dirty cheater - but I don't consider that gamebreaking -
better cool downs are just more fun for me and I hurt nobody.

[PatrickBateman]

She's OP as hell up to gold (but then again most kits are when you have experience in playing them).

A shadow strike build is a lot more challenging on platinum though as there isn't a ton of mooks you can OHK all day long. I've played her on platinum a few times, and for me that was a challenge, especially the last time when I got geth on Condor, I almost rage quited

[ALTBOULI]

8x if you use the freaking Golden Gun!

10X if your using a Claymore Volus!

[DaemionMoadrin]

She's OP as hell up to gold (but then again most kits are when you have experience in playing them).

A shadow strike build is a lot more challenging on platinum though as there isn't a ton of mooks you can OHK all day long. I've played her on platinum a few times, and for me that was a challenge, especially the last time when I got geth on Condor, I almost rage quited

 

I don't consider Plat a proper game mode anyway. It's just inflated bullet sponges for the epeen cheese, all that cross faction nonsense is stupid. It's just no fun for me.

[ALTBOULI]

^LolGold



















I was joking btw (before anyone gets butthurt and reports me again)

[Kenny Bania]

^LolGold



















I was joking btw (before anyone gets butthurt and reports me again)

 

Reported.

[Catastrophy]

10X if your using a Claymore Volus!

I prefer a Shadow rearside - but I totally accept people who dig the obese quarian characters.

[Catastrophy]

Reported.

Snitch!

[GruntKitterhand]

Blade! Blade and stagger! How is blasting away with an autoshotgun finesse? The Shadow dances with her enemies, she doesn't seal-club them.

 

Why do you think I mentioned the necessity for an Omniblade?  And what gun do you recommend for dealing with those Atlases, in between melees obviously? Serious question.

 

You can probably do 2 or 3 heavy melees in the time it takes for the SS animation to finish. The latter is only efficient to use at longer ranges, unless you take duration and then your HM doesn't have the oomph to actually kill things in one hit.

 

Best melee Shadow I've seen played was Sterling's, and he takes damage all around (armor damage, and no shield drain). Runs a disciple w/ omniblade and I've seen him do 2 SS in a single cloak cycle. The thing actually does an pretty good job of staying relevant in terms of damage output if the rest of the lobby isn't just running tons of cheese, well at least when he's not bleeding out . Can't say that for many other melee only builds (maybe the Kroguard)

You may still be able to one hit mooks without it, but you can't do the same to Ravagers, and bring Brutes/scions within a couple bars of death for an easy finish. Further, it still affects your gun damage for targets like atlases, where the extra 40% will undeniably help. Damage still has more benefit. I can see duration being of more use on devices and multi revives, but that goes for any other infiltrator as well.

 

Yeah....no.  Disagreed on pretty much all of that.  Apart from the Disciple, which is the second best weapon option on her after the Piranha because of better cooldowns, but the Piranha stills wins because of its situational brilliance against Atlases.  Also, 3 HMs in the time it takes for a SS animation?  Are you sure QMR?  You wouldn't just be posturing or exaggerating for effect by any chance?  And trust me, my Heavy Melee works just fine with duration - I don't see 420 points on top of 3728 as being game-changingly beneficial.  There is so much more to consider than raw, optimal conditions DPS.

 

Sterling is hardly representative of the player-base at large, so it doesn't surprise me that he can make a build like that work, but for the vast majority of players the shield-drain option is an absolute no-brainer better choice, as is Barrier damage because Phantoms are a greater threat to you and your team than anything else.  Don't forget I know how much you love Phantoms, so I would have thought you'd welcome the, ahem, assistance against them, no? 

 

Your last paragraph contains what could be described as a couple of L2P issues (shoot first, cloak + SS second on those particular enemies), but it's the 'that goes for any other Infiltrator as well' remark that gets to the heart of why I will continue to hold my views regarding the Shadow.  There are 11 Infiltrators, all sporting what is by a country mile one of the most broken powers in the history of gaming. The collective wisdom of BSN has decreed that the only thing better than DPS is moar DPS, so anyone who chooses a different option is immediately derided as either a noob or a coward.  Bollocks to BSN in this instance. Big dangly hairy sweaty bollocks, to go with all the score-obsessed epeen around here.

 

The Shadow is the only Infiltrator who does not suffer in any meaningful, significant way by taking duration on her Cloak, which in turn can, if properly used, allow her to play as - GASP! - an INFILTRATOR - as opposed to someone who simply presses a button to boost their damage before shooting their gun, which is the case with all the other Infiltrators (even the Huntress, who doesn't even get a weapon boost). I'm going waaaaay out on a limb here, but you strike me as someone who has at least a passing interest in the lore aspects of this game, so I would hope that you would recognise what I'm recommending here and why I'm doing so - all in the interests of boosting the co-op team experience and increasing the chances of Pug missions ending successfully. 

[DaemionMoadrin]

Sterling is hardly representative of the player-base at large, so it doesn't surprise me that he can make a build like that work, but for the vast majority of players the shield-drain option is an absolute no-brainer better choice, as is Barrier damage because Phantoms are a greater threat to you and your team than anything else.  Don't forget I know how much you love Phantoms, so I would have thought you'd welcome the, ahem, assistance against them, no? 

 

Shield-drain is the better option, I agree. Barrier damage though? What for? My damage is so high that Phantoms are dead anyway... and I'd rather have the boost vs. armor because those are usually the targets I can't kill as easily.

[GruntKitterhand]

Shield-drain is the better option, I agree. Barrier damage though? What for? My damage is so high that Phantoms are dead anyway... and I'd rather have the boost vs. armor because those are usually the targets I can't kill as easily.

 

I much prefer leaving Dragoons to die to the DOT effect than Phantoms.  I just want Phantoms dead. With the duration cloak I'm advocating, that is the single pay-off, and one worth paying imo. And the Piranha takes care of armour very effectively in conjunction with SS and Melee.

[Catastrophy]

Why do you think I mentioned the necessity for an Omniblade?  And what gun do you recommend for dealing with those Atlases, in between melees obviously? Serious question.

 

 

I do not recommend - I use the Wraith. It's mostly a style thing. The rest (like the finesse thing) is role play.

 

I prefer the swordplay. I like to time "going in" for a strike and kill. I use the gun as a tool for stagger. And against enemies Shadow sucks against (the "healthy Atlas", the "cautious Ravager", the "douchy Praetorian").

 

I strike sync-killers, I melee sync-killers, I like to trigger their sets of behaviour without getting grabbed. I dance with Scions. I dodge because it looks good. I line up Shadow's animations to enjoy them visually.

 

It's a playstyle I enjoy. It's not particularly "efficient" when paired up against with people who know what they're doing and who use high-grade equipment, but usually very viable in a random group.

[Miniditka77]

the Raider is great but the accuracy does not favour my personal playstyle.

the Piranha would be a better choice, however, I am using the melee mod, and with the Piranha the weight glitch does not work.
I know! I am a dirty cheater - but I don't consider that gamebreaking -
better cool downs are just more fun for me and I hurt nobody.

 

Nothing wrong with abusing the weight glitch!

 

Anyway, I like using the Piranha better than the Raider too.  I use Choke and Omni-Blade with AP ammo, and then I usually take the Eagle, Phalanx, or Acolyte with Extended Barrel and Melee Stunner as a backup, in case I need to plink some long-distance enemies during a hack or something.

 

I also find that the GPS works really well on the Shadow, with Incendiary or Disruptor ammo to give your Slash something to detonate.  Atlases become tedious with the GPS though, with no ability to SS them and no double hits.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

the Raider is great but the accuracy does not favour my personal playstyle.

the Piranha would be a better choice, however, I am using the melee mod, and with the Piranha the weight glitch does not work.
I know! I am a dirty cheater - but I don't consider that gamebreaking -
better cool downs are just more fun for me and I hurt nobody.

Feel guilty about the weight glitch when Claymore users stop reload-cancelling.