766 réponses à ce sujet

[apocalypse_owl]

Just gonna put it out there that elemental vulnerability and resistance is calculated at 50% more damage for vulnerable and 50% less for resistance. Not double damage as drasca suggests.

Penguin tested this one a while back as a pretense to his faction guides.

[Snakebite]

I must say, I was not expecting anything like this mechanics discussion when I got back.  Carry on. 

[yarpenthemad21]

Just gonna put it out there that elemental vulnerability and resistance is calculated at 50% more damage for vulnerable and 50% less for resistance. Not double damage as drasca suggests.

Penguin tested this one a while back as a pretense to his faction guides.

What enemies were tested?
I would agree in general with few exceptions/questions.
1. In general spirit damage weakness, looks more like 100% bonus - arcane horror, revenant, horror
2. Dragons, I think that they have "greater resistance" or something similar. I remember fighting fire dragon with dragon staff. My average auto attack damage is around 140-150. On fire dragon spirit rune part (around 50 damage) was dealing more damage than auto which was for around 30+. It more looks for 75% resistance and I think that weakness is also for 75%

[Pork]

What enemies were tested?
I would agree in general with few exceptions/questions.
1. In general spirit damage weakness, looks more like 100% bonus - arcane horror, revenant, horror
2. Dragons, I think that they have "greater resistance" or something similar. I remember fighting fire dragon with dragon staff. My average auto attack damage is around 140-150. On fire dragon spirit rune part (around 50 damage) was dealing more damage than auto which was for around 30+. It more looks for 75% resistance and I think that weakness is also for 75%

 

Pretty sure that dragons are the exception here, they have greater resistance and I assume they have the opposite greater vulnerability (which isn't listed while observing in the fade). Your observations seem to back this aswell.

 

I believe this is the thread owl was talking about: http://forum.bioware...lemental-damage.

 

The Horror was tested it seems so I imagine spirit resistance was tested there, plus the YT description says it was, but its not specifically documented in the BSN post so im not 100% sure.

[Drasca]

What enemies were tested?
I would agree in general with few exceptions/questions.
1. In general spirit damage weakness, looks more like 100% bonus - arcane horror, revenant, horror
2. Dragons, I think that they have "greater resistance" or something similar. I remember fighting fire dragon with dragon staff. My average auto attack damage is around 140-150. On fire dragon spirit rune part (around 50 damage) was dealing more damage than auto which was for around 30+. It more looks for 75% resistance and I think that weakness is also for 75%

 

PF isn't good at documenting a wide variety of test conditions and setting up a stable platform. i.e. he's lazy and only tries to test a few things, but is unwilling to test more when pressed after making his claim. This doesn't work well for the scientific method.

 

There are definitely exceptions. For example, certain venatori mages have near immunity to the element they're resistent to, taking 1 damage from shock for example. The high dragons definitely have more resistence than the usual suspects.

 

Documenting exactly what happens and when is important. The relative resulting damage of resistence is also greatly affected by how the math plays out too.

 

Let's assume we have an element resistent enemy: He'll halve 1k shock damage to 500. Element vulnerable enemies, even if it is only a 50% bonus, will be 1500 damage, which is 3x what the resistent enemy would take. If it is a 100% bonus, it'll be a factor of 4x vs element resistent enemies.

 

Brutes however definitely take 2x shock damage. I have plenty of video of me doing 1400-1600 shock damage vs normal targets, and doing double that vs Brutes. Same goes for Despair Demons. They take double fire damage, as fire mines typically do 4-5k with chaotic focus, and they do an upward 8-10k with fire mine.

 

Spirit vulnerable enemies tend to take double damage from spirit as well afaik. Fear demons and Shock High Dragon is included into the spirit vulnerable categor iirc. (not hard to check).

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Note Mortiel's notoriously bad at math and combat formula understanding (and most of BSN for that matter). 

 

Had you read what I said, you might have seen that I made it clear that while I was not claiming that one of the double-ticks could not crit, I simply said I had not observed it, yet you feel the need to attack my reading comprehension. Yet you alway proclaim that tests others have done should always be second to empirical evidence (which I provided). Then you attack my math skills without actually checking the math. You must be so blindly mad at me that you can't even think straight. Might want to correct that error. It's making you sloppy.

 

Drasca, whom refutes ad hominem while performing them at the same time. Shame that you failed to actually show any proof of my incorrect math. And no, "not feeling like it" is not an excuse. Sorry, but you are on "factual statements only" with me. If my math is bad, provide evidence disproving the video I showed, or just don't reply to me. Simple as that.

 

You try to make it sound complicated to obfuscate your claims, but you grossly overestimate your ability to bull**** people.

 

You fall back on the whole, "Mortiel just doesn't understand math, and I can't be bothered to explain it to peasants" excuse without providing any proof quite frequently, and it won't cut it. Either prove the error on my math or you are wrong and nothing you will say will change it. No excuses, no diversions. Proof or wrong. Simple, yeah?

 

To everyone else: I very well may be wrong. I am well aware of it. I just want Drasca to actually back up his claims for once, so please, no one else do it for him. If he fails to prove it in his next post, which is very likely, then feel free to show my error.

 

Still whatever. Walking bomb works in the way as listed in this old thread you have quoted.
This calculation also proves other things (and makes my test on Lunge and slash even more useful) that balance changes and ability rings don't work well.

Walking bomb now has 150% damage. 30% of it is 50% but tooltip displays this strange 233% . And based on math 233% is definitely more likely to be real value instead of 200% with "proper" working ring just broken tooltip.
In general tooltips does not lie in terms of values, sometimes they just list additional bonus damage as something different or like with walking bomb list some not existing "explosion" damage. I think that ability rings bonus is hardcoded, which would explain why some does not work (just bug with wrong values, IDs, etc), so gives 30%, some 33.(3)% etc
So to sum up, ability rings works on base ability value but not this changed by balance changes, probably because balance changed skills are taken from Bioware servers and rings just work locally.
This makes rings for longshot, walking bomb giving "more", and those for buffed abilities like Lunge and slash, explosive shot etc giving less. It fits my tests perfectly.

 

I know what it is supposed to be... Keep in mind that the videos I provided in that post I made were old, and the mechanics very likely could have been altered. I made sure to clarify the time frame on purpose. The values are easy to calculate for that time frame, as I had almost no promotions, no +attack gear, and literally no gear to affect the numbers in other ways. Also, being that Spirit Damage ignores armor and DOT doesn't crit or flank, all of that is a non-factor. I also initially show a Black Wolf taking damage, which is not resistant or weak to Spirit last I checked.

 

I am not disputing your original claim though. I actually think we are likely agreeing on a lot more than it may appear. You even conceded on my rather subjective statement that the "buff" to Toxic Cloud was just fixing the tool-tip, which then concedes that the DOT was 50% weapon damage before, thus also aligning with my claim using my Hunter guide showing Toxic Cloud doing 175 damage per ticket.

 

In other words, while things have changed now, and Cool Beats (the real ability in question) appears to deal the listed damage every two seconds. I was merely asking if it did since I had previously experienced otherwise. I pointed out that other skills had dealt double the listed damage every two seconds. I provided videos of them doing it to back up my claim. That was all. If Cool Beats does not do that, then my question was answered, and there is no need to debate the topic further.

 

[Drasca]

 More failing at math

 

You have to prove good math. That's up to you. I don't have to prove a negative. I don't have to disprove that invisible flying spaghetti monsters exist either. Pony up, or get out.

[Kenny Bania]

Pony up, or get out.

 

Says the guy who hasn't responded to the challenge yet....

 

I believe I've figured your plan out by the way....

 

You've probably got a video that barely squeaks past the time Snakebite set, but will wait until just before the deadline to post it, not giving Snakebite a chance to respond.

[Angry_Elcor]

Says the guy who hasn't responded to the challenge yet....

 

I believe I've figured your plan out by the way....

 

You've probably got a video that barely squeaks past the time Snakebite set, but will wait until just before the deadline to post it, not giving Snakebite a chance to respond.

 

I think you're giving him way too much credit.

[Angry_Elcor]

I don't have to prove a negative. I don't have to disprove that invisible flying spaghetti monsters exist either.

 

It's a good thing that you never have to prove anything you say, according to your rules, and only other people ever have to prove what they say. Which you seem to ignore much of the time when they do it. These rules seem very convenient for you and inconvenient for everyone else.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Diversion failed.

Well, you are wrong then. I provided my claim and evidence. You claimed it was wrong but failed to show evidence. In other words: Empty words.

If it was so clear I was wrong, then you could have easily proven it. That means you are just attacking me out of spite or are not as smart as you wish to portray. Or maybe both. Not like you would ever prove one way or the other. Just like all of the work aznricepuff (et al) did that you frequently quote as gospel. You didn't do the work. You just parrot other intelligent people.

You had your chance and chose to try and divert the subject. It failed. Now, if anyone else does it for you, you can surely ride on the coat tails of their intelligence and parrot their work, but you've lost the privilege of claiming it. And we're done now.

[Hellsteeth30]

Good, back to old fashioned mudslinging.

All those numbers were giving me a headache.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Good, back to old fashioned mudslinging.

All those numbers were giving me a headache.

 

Don't make me shove you back in Russian prison with Talia... 

[Hellsteeth30]

All that crap I did for her and I still got friend zoned.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

All that crap I did for her and I still got friend zoned.

 

That's what happens when you have an obnoxious respirator on your face. Oh, and what happens when you befriend the Daughter of the Demon's Head. You should have known better... 

 

At least you don't have Thanos and Deadpool constantly trying to feel you up...

[Hellsteeth30]

It was her God damn fault I ended up with this morphine dispenser in the first place.

Not even a peck on the cheek before the planned nuke.....women.

[Kenny Bania]

Don't make me shove you back in Russian prison with Talia... 

All that crap I did for her and I still got friend zoned.

That's what happens when you have an obnoxious respirator on your face. Oh, and what happens when you befriend the Daughter of the Demon's Head. You should have known better... 

 

At least you don't have Thanos and Deadpool constantly trying to feel you up...

It was her God damn fault I ended up with this morphine dispenser in the first place.

Not even a peck on the cheek before the planned nuke.....women.

 

SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!

 

 

Rise of the Dark Knight Spoiler: Bane is Bruce Wayne's father, and Talia al Ghul is secretly Darth Sidious. Sorry. I can't take it back. The movie has been thoroughly spoiled.

[Hellsteeth30]

Bruce Willis was dead the whole time. Sixth Sense.

Snape killed dumbledore. Harry Potter.....whichever book/film it was.

Kenny Bania was a lousy stand up. Seinfeld.

Gya's real father is......CLASSIFIED

[Snakebite]

Rise of the Dark Knight Spoiler: Bane is Bruce Wayne's father, and Talia al Ghul is secretly Darth Sidious. Sorry. I can't take it back. The movie has been thoroughly spoiled.

 

Speaking of ruining movies, I just watched Mad Max which I thought was amazing until somehow at the end, the team with Zither! failed.  How do you fail when you have a Zither!, let alone Gya's super ultra build?  Maybe he was too busy giving out Bolstering Ballad or something.  Oh well.

[Kenny Bania]

Kenny Bania was a lousy stand up. Seinfeld.

 

Low blow man. Low blow.

[Gya]

Gya's real father is......CLASSIFIED

Damn you, mother!

Edit:

I hadn't noticed that dragons have greater resistance, thanks for pointing that out Yarpen.

[Drasca]

More bs

 

Get out of here Mortiel. You have nothing useful to contribute.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Get out of here Mortiel. You have nothing useful to contribute.

 

Hello Mr. Pot. My name is Kettle. Nice to meet you!

If by "useful" you mean, "making claims and failing to prove them", then I'd have to agree. You, conversely, are currently providing a large amount of "useful" entertainment for myself and my coworkers here.  While a smart person in your situation would see they had made a clear tactical error and either prove the other person wrong or admit they were wrong, you just keep charging the Drascuffalo into the wall, huh? Shine on, you crazy diamond. Shine on.

 

Still waiting on your Thunderdome video. 

[Kenny Bania]

Hello Mr. Pot. My name is Kettle. Nice to meet you!

If by "useful" you mean, "making claims and failing to prove them", then I'd have to agree. You, conversely, are currently providing a large amount of "useful" entertainment for myself and my coworkers here.  While a smart person in your situation would see they had made a clear tactical error and either prove the other person wrong or admit they were wrong, you just keep charging the Drascuffalo into the wall, huh? Shine on, you crazy diamond. Shine on.

 

Still waiting on your Thunderdome video. 

 

You still think my "build" thread back then was inflammatory?