431 réponses à ce sujet

[Linkenski]

So, lately I feel like it has been a trend on various web-boards and comment sections that "Bioware is dying" or "Bioware is a sinking ship"... heck I probably said it myself sometimes when I was going through the most dire moments of Bioware's productions, but despite seeing the departure of their co-founders and Casey Hudson and other really long-time veterans from the company, do we really think the statement is true?

 

I just finished The Witcher 3 last night - a game that I've been looking forward to for years and all in all, it did not disappoint, yet, as I'm reflecting over it as a whole now, I still think it's not the quantum leap above what Bioware is capable of that I used to think it would be. and for some reason I find myself comparing it a lot to ME3 because they do share a couple more similarities than one would expect.

 

I was reminiscing over the Krogan campaign, and how awesome it was (except for Kalros convenient) and had some of the best executed moments of intereactive choice/consequence I've seen yet. I often feel as though ME3 was the game that made everyone start saying "Bioware sucks" because the ending was **** and all that, but really, it had some really good moments and it's still semi-recent.

 

 

"Bioware is dying" is one of the first results I get when I search "bioware" on google and it really made me think: Do you guys think that's true, and what are some things you could say that goes against that statement?

 

[Vazgen]

Well, seeing how DAI grabbed all those awards and had a very successful launch, considering how anticipated are the news on new Mass Effect game and noting that there is a whole new IP currently in development (as well as other projects)... no, I don't see it as Bioware "dying". It has evolved and is no longer the same Bioware that made the Baldur's Gate. New technologies, new vision, new goals. It's a natural process of evolution.

[BraveVesperia]

I don't really see how it's dying at all. Mass Effect was a popular series (afaik), certainly enough that they're putting money into further games for it, and they could afford to get in big names to star in the games. DAI got a load of awards, and seems to have done well. 

 

I'm guessing this sort of thing is coming from people who have been 'long-time fans', who don't like whatever direction they see Bioware taking. But that doesn't account for fans who are still happy, or new fans. As far as I can tell, Bioware's on the up-and-up.

[geth47]

Some points to consider. Some are in favor of this notion, others are against it. others I think are open to interpretation or left by time to judge. 

 

They had 2 new IPs in development, and one of them got canceled. It´s never good to destroy an original game with the potential to become a franchise in order to favor a franchise from another part. But anyway, there will be a lot of talk about star wars now that there will be a new trilogy of movies, so economically it may prove to be a wise choice down the road.

 

DAI Inquisition having massive sales favors the notion that they are doing great. The problem is: They´ve managed to attract a new audience, one that is not interested in rpgs, but seem to have alienated a major portion of their old audience. 

 

So many people involved with dragon age and mass effect leaving the company. Yes, I know that changes in staff are inevitable, but Hudson leaving leaves me with ominous feelings. Weeks could be a good replacement for Gaider (time will tell), but I don´t think they ever found a suitable replacement for Drew K. 

 

In my opinion, I don´t think the company is dying. From an economical point of view they seem to be doing nicely. However, there´s an undeniable change of direction, of focus, of identity. DAI is quite different from Neverwinter Nights and Baldur´s Gate. That´s not necessarily a bad thing. But things definitely changed in the last six years. 

 

Money is what drives corporations, and there´s more money to be made in games like old republic, mass effect and DAI than in old-school overly complicated stuff (as much as we may like it). 

 

I think the fact that DA1 costed so much to be made also weights a lot. If not for the cost of DA1 over more than 5 years of development, and maybe there would not be such a desperate effort on making games thinking about consoles first and pc only later and bioware would not be engulfed by EA. Games seem now to be made with a planning of 30 months, with an extension of up to 7 months, so the costs will not endanger the company. 

 

As much as some people may love DAI1, there´s no denying that DA2 was much more profitable, required less money and much less time to be made. It represented a much lesser risk for the company. 

 

The only games with a potential of having more than 3 and a half years of development from bioware seem to be MMOs. 

 

I don´t have to like it, but to be fair and honest, it must be acknowledged. 

 

But there are plenty of people willing to fulfill bioware´s old role. Pillars of eternity, the new torment, banner saga, divine divinity, inquisitor, consortium, the new baldur´s gate from beamdog... They all try to emulate aspects of bioware classic games.

 

 

 

I guess that´s my conclusion. They are not dying in the conventional sense, but undergoing a continuous transformation in order to remain relevant and viable in today´s martket.  I guess their change of identity can be perceived as a metaphorical death in the sense that the company from 15 or 20 years ago no longer exists. It´s pretty much like replacing one component of your computer every 8 months, and after six years finding out that there´s not a single original component left.

 

But they won´t really die as long as they remain lucrative. And they seem to be doing really well, despite their recent cancellation.  

[Torgette]

People are short sighted, look no further than the whole Nintendoomed thing.

[Iakus]

Cross-posted since there seem to be two threads:

 

 

 

Sure it had moments.  But good storytelling is being able to put many of  those moments together into a greater whole.

Bioware, and Mass Effect in particular, have really been struggling with that.  Good moments may shore up mediocre stories, but by themselves don't make good stories.

And of course, being willing to ram "Art" down paying customers' collective throats even when it is demonstrated to be wildly unpopular doesn't exactly inspire faith in future products 

[Vazgen]

And of course, being willing to ram "Art" down paying customers' collective throats even when it is demonstrated to be wildly unpopular doesn't exactly inspire faith in future products

It's actually one of the things that makes me optimistic about their future products. Ability not to give in to the majority of fans, sticking up to the vision you had - these are good qualities in my book.

[N7Jamaican]

BioWare is not a sinking ship.  

[Cheviot]

BioWare is not a sinking ship.  

Of course it isn't.  If it was, this thread wouldn't be needed.

[Iakus]

It's actually one of the things that makes me optimistic about their future products. Ability not to give in to the majority of fans, sticking up to the vision you had - these are good qualities in my book.

I suppose the courage to defend the indefensible is admirable.  It does take a certain degree of chutzpah to do that.  But it also shows a certain out of touch quality.

[MissOuJ]

Despite all the doom and gloom, BioWare has had two critically and commercially well received titles in a row, plus a loyal fanbase, and titles in production ATM. I'm sure BioWare isn't going anywhere in the near future, at least.

 

Most of the "BioWare is dying" threads / opinions I've heard have been about whatever new RPG / gaming trend BW has adopted or tried (increased representation of minorities, streamlined [or, like they prefer to call it, "dumbed down"] UI / combat systems, the addition of multiplayer...) which the speaker is less enthusiastic about. But that kind of change is natural to... anything, really. I mean, just because YouTube has been through a variety of overhauls over its lifetime and the content in YT has changed dramatically since it was first launched doesn't mean that YouTube itself is dying or going anywhere.

 

So yeah, BioWare is changing, so you could say that "the Old BioWare" is dying... but then, according to that definition, the whole gaming industry has died a couple of times during the past couple of years alone.

[Sion1138]

If the two major titles currently under development fail, then yeah.

[Iakus]

Despite all the doom and gloom, BioWare has had two critically and commercially well received titles in a row, plus a loyal fanbase, and titles in production ATM. I'm sure BioWare isn't going anywhere in the near future, at least.

 

Bioware may not be dying, but it does seem to be rather ill with an identity crisis.

 

Critical acclaim doesn't mean as much as it used to.  Especially after ME3.  Who trusts IGN anymore, for example?  Financial success will only last as long as you can hype your products to a trusting audience.  Which, if they keep screwing with the "loyal fanbase", won't last forever.

 

We'll just have to see if the fever breaks.

[Vazgen]

I suppose the courage to defend the indefensible is admirable. It does take a certain degree of chutzpah to do that. But it also shows a certain out of touch quality.

I just like that quality. I know that they'll tell a story and they won't change it regardless of fanbase reactions. I know that this story won't be focused entirely on pleasing the fanbase and generate cash, that they are not afraid of introducing new elements and exploring not so popular/accepted subjects. I find these qualities rare in video game developers these days and I admire Bioware for still retaining those traits despite EA pressure and fan outcries.

[Quarian Master Race]

It isn't, their last two IP's were massive critical and commercial successes and the next will be no different. People will whinge on the internet as if the world is coming to an end because they've nothing better to do, but that won't stop most of them from buying the games. 

[SomberXIII]

I will never trust the Internet unless the news/opinion is official or from honest sources.

[MissOuJ]

Bioware may not be dying, but it does seem to be rather ill with an identity crisis.

 

Critical acclaim doesn't mean as much as it used to.  Especially after ME3.  Who trusts IGN anymore, for example?  Financial success will only last as long as you can hype your products to a trusting audience.  Which, if they keep screwing with the "loyal fanbase", won't last forever.

 

We'll just have to see if the fever breaks.

 

So your argument is... what, exactly? That because BioWare changes and has changed that it will die? Based on your first post, I'd say that you seem to have some problem with their past gameplay design or plot related problems (also, the "being willing to ram "Art" down paying customers' collective throats even when it is demonstrated to be wildly unpopular" is kinda telling...) - which pretty much fits my experience with the doomsayer crowd. Or, like TVTropes puts it: "They Changed It, Now It Sucks".

 

Also, people seem to forget that despite the big hub hub about the ending, ME3 was a pretty amazing game all in all, and that the ME 1-3 (I really hope they'll start calling it "the original Shepard Trilogy" or something equally wonderfully corny) was a pretty great trilogy all around. DA2 was the only big stumble - but the dishing that game got is a bit unfair IMO, since it's an amazing game in my opinion, even though it has its problems -  but then again, it looks like both EA and BioWare learned from that.

 

Also... there was a time when people believed IGN or took it seriously?

 

TL;DR: Where you see an identity crisis, I see a publisher which is acknowledging its expanding fan base and listening to the fans and the general trends of the industry (I mean, let's be honest: the reason DA:I is how it is is because of how successful Skyrim was).

[NM_Che56]

LOL! Wow! These must be some pretty deep corners of internet space cuz this is the first time I've seen this called a "trend".

 

Chicken Littles Everywhere.

 

It's funny, around here people will say that crap everyday.  So surprised (not really) to see so many rats staying on a ship they declare is sinking.

[Helios969]

Nah, they're fine. Agree OP...playing Witcher 3 right now, new to the franchise and very much enjoying it, but not substantially better. I think there are aspects to each company's approach I prefer over the other. Bottom line both are fun in there own way.

[pdusen]

A lot of "Bioware is dying" posts are really just people lacking the self-awareness to say what they really are thinking: "Bioware doesn't like my pet features anymore, and I'm going to try and convince the world that they're dying in order to try and punish them".

 

It's childish.

[Mineko]

People can be reluctant to change. And more often than not, they get negative about it. That doesn't mean that Bioware is dying.

Using an example close to me, the amount of times I've read/heard "World of Warcraft is dying", "Bizzard is done", and the likes... are too damn high. Yet there they are, and I doubt they'll "sink" anytime soon.

I think Bioware is evolving because well, the gaming industry is evolving. Some people will miss the hardcore games, but the reality is that, as gaming gets more and more popular, casual games is where the money is. And that doesn't necessarily have to mean that the quality of the game will be crap. I look at ME3 for example, and despite the controversial endings I still see a beautifully executed game, with a nice story and engaging combat style. And I don't think it's overall worse than ME1.

I can't really speak about Dragon Age because I haven't played them. Not yet, that is.

[NM_Che56]

Dragon Age: Inquisition earned multiple GOTY awards and made money.  Doesn't sound like a studio that's "dying".

[dlux]

I've been very disappointed with every game that Bioware has released after Mass Effect 2. I just hope that Bioware starts being Bioware again and that Mass Effect 4 is a great game. That is all I have to say.

[Golden_Persona]

The fact of the matter is the so-called Bioware killer known as Witcher 3 is an amazing game... but Bioware has done everything Witcher 3 has done just as well, if not better, in the past. Character focused stories? Bioware games have that in spades. Meaningful sidequests? ME2 and ME3 did the blending of main quests and side quests just as well, to the point they don't feel like side quests. Yeah, the loyalty missions are side quests. Saving Jack and her students from Grissom Academy is a side quest, or helping Grunt's military band fend off the indoctrinated Rachni are side quests, but you feel compelled to do them. In the same way you feel absolutely compelled to help Triss accomplish her goal in W3, despite being able to skip her quest.

 

Bioware games also have the MC customization aspect that Witcher 3 lacks, which is a huge plus for RPG fans. Witcher 3 is less of a traditional pave out your own story RPG, and more of a character-focused action game with RPG elements.

 

Yeah, recent Bioware games have lacked some key elements from their past games. ME3 had autodialogue, and you were forced to care about Earth blowing up and acting super mopey even if you played as a cold heartless terminator determinator who fought for all worlds not just their own up until ME3. DA:I's race selection didn't add much to the game to make the Inquisitor distinct and the side quests fail pretty hard. We've all complained about those aspects enough however that I'm confident Bioware is indeed listening to that kind of feedback and MEN will be all better for it. I think its silly when people say "ME3 sucks!!!" and expect Bioware to listen to them. That's not constructive criticism at all.

 

I'm ready to celebrate a gaming industry that has both CDP and Bioware together in the RPG mix. It's stupid to want them to be on a sinking ship. We need these two developers more than ever right now.

[Helios969]

Golden Persona...damn well said.