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Official Fallout 4 and DLC Discussion Thread


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#3401
ObserverStatus

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It's not set is it? Didn't Bethesda say the romances are for all orientations.

 

So for whatever reason, if you're roleplaying a gay character, he married a woman because that's society's standards at the time. I know the year is 2070 and something but in the Fallout universe, it's still got the whole 50's beliefs hasn't it?

 

I don't see the problem with this story other than people trying to make a song and dance out of a game's story not being some politically correct bullshit. Fallout has never been politically correct.

 

Imagine Fallout 1 or 2 and their themes in a game today. The ability to become a porn star, kill children and then there's that one guy who implies he wants to rape your female character if you have a low intelligence (he talks about spiking your drink or something). Gaming "journalism" would be have a field day with these games in today's age especially Gawker's network of shitty blogs from Kotakaua to Jezebel.

I doubt it, Patricia Hernandez tends to monopolize Kotaku's Fallout coverage, and as far as I can tell, she loved Fallout 2. http://www.rockpaper...e-me-fallout-2/



#3402
Degenerate Rakia Time

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you know what FO4 needs? armor dyes, i want my neon pink leather armor goddamit


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#3403
Dermain

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you know what FO4 needs? armor dyes, i want my neon pink leather armor goddamit

 

Ya, that's not going to happen.

 

You're going to need mods for that ****!


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#3404
Eternal Phoenix

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I doubt it, Patricia Hernandez tends to monopolize Kotaku's Fallout coverage, and as far as I can tell, she loved Fallout 2. http://www.rockpaper...e-me-fallout-2/

 

Maybe she never hanged around in New Reno long enough?



#3405
Fast Jimmy

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Maybe she never hanged around in New Reno long enough?


I'd honestly propose it has to do with the silent protagonist and (mostly) silent cast, as well as no cinematics.

Much harder to trigger people with just words.
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#3406
Dermain

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I'd honestly propose it has to do with the silent protagonist and (mostly) silent cast, as well as no cinematics.

Much harder to trigger people with just words.

 

Twitter would like to disagree with you.  :rolleyes:


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#3407
Fast Jimmy

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Twitter would like to disagree with you. :rolleyes:


It can try!
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#3408
A Crusty Knight Of Colour

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Isn't Patricia Hernandez the writer that used Gears of War 3 as a springboard to waffle on about rape culture because she felt guilty about saying she 'raped' an opponent in a PUG?


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#3409
Degenerate Rakia Time

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It can try!

you are programmed to try :P


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#3410
Fast Jimmy

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Isn't Patricia Hernandez the writer that used Gears of War 3 as a springboard to waffle on about rape culture because she felt guilty about saying she 'raped' an opponent in a PUG?


If so... wow. People need to own up to their own hang ups and behavior in life.

#3411
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you know, i generally hate reddit but they did notice the best thing in the trailer, a Remington 700 VTR

SkzDTWZ.jpg


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#3412
A Crusty Knight Of Colour

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If so... wow. People need to own up to their own hang ups and behavior in life.

 

To be fair, she didn't crap up a review with that nonsense but between that piece and the Fallout 2 piece where she spends two-thirds of it complaining about her backwards family, it seems like she is one who is incapable of separating her identity politics from her writing. That is to say, to write about games for games seems like a foreign concept to her, games are ultimately props and framing devices she uses to talk about herself and her worldview. 

 

I haven't seen her entire body of work, so that's not a comment that can fairly be applied to her as a whole but it's a criticism I can levy at many 'socially aware' narcissists that masquerade as gaming critics.


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#3413
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Let's not make this a thread about stupid game journalists.


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#3414
Fast Jimmy

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To be fair, she didn't crap up a review with that nonsense but between that piece and the Fallout 2 piece where she spends two-thirds of it complaining about her backwards family, it seems like she is one who is incapable of separating her identity politics from her writing. That is to say, to write about games for games seems like a foreign concept to her, games are ultimately props and framing devices she uses to talk about herself and her worldview.

I haven't seen her entire body of work, so that's not a comment that can fairly be applied to her as a whole but it's a criticism I can levy at many 'socially aware' narcissists that masquerade as gaming critics.


To me, even ONE example of that is sign of highly unprofessional journalism. If you want to editorialize, write a blog. If you want to be impartial and inform, then write an article. Don't pretend you're doing one when you're actually doing the other.

#3415
Fast Jimmy

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Let's not make this a thread about stupid game journalists.


Sorry.

#3416
Degenerate Rakia Time

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Let's not make this a thread about stupid game journalists.

yes, lets make it a thread about Codsworth romance :D


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#3417
Liamv2

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yes, lets make it a thread about Codsworth romance :D

 

You sure know how to bioware fan.


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#3418
A Crusty Knight Of Colour

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hmm
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#3419
Degenerate Rakia Time

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You sure know how to bioware fan.

you know you were thinking about it :P



#3420
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Ask yourself this, will a Bethesda game ever feature something along the lines of a Vault 11? Or even something like lining parts of the map with Deathclaws? Probably not, because they don't want to inconvenience the player, and lack the ability to craft an environment and set the tone for such a climax to happen in the first place.

 

I feel bad cutting out so much of the post but this point deserves special mention. I loved this. Iit kept the game semi-closed off early on when you were just starting but via an actual recognised threat instead of the say the typical open world thing of launching a freaking god at you that disappears when you make an arbitrary about of progress.

I also loved how it's possible to go through them early on. Via a mix of skill and luck you can skip a large chunk of the game or if you don't think you can do it you can come back later. There is even a few quests in that dangerous area that would be incredibly useful for a player early on. it's just little details like that that make the world fun. Like the playthrough I'm doing now I went face first through the deathclaws chugging sunset sasparillas and taking enough stims to kill a man just running the **** away.

 

FO3 and Skyrim had nothing like that. While the charm of wandering out of Vault 101/ Helgen and then going whether the hell you please is nice it wears off fast. 


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#3421
Fast Jimmy

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Okay.

Bethesda will do what Bethesda does and make a decent Bethesda Shallow Sandbox Experience game that will sell 25+ million copies and receive critical acclaim. But they are incapable of understanding what makes the Fallout franchise tick, and their Bethesda Shallow Sandbox Experience design formula is fundamentally at odds with what makes Fallout special.

One example, exploration is key in a Fallout game but not necessarily for the reasons one thinks. One thing Bethesda does well is implement tourist tier exploration where players are essentially divorced from the world and allowed to "explore" and "experience" content at their leisure without risk or reprecussion. In the Elder Scrolls games, this has been lampshaded by the fact that you are some special hero of prophesy, but that doesn't cut it in the Fallout franchise. Worse still, no great effort is made to make the player character play by the same rules as everyone else and this has a big influence on how you can leverage world design and game mechanics for the purposes of environmental storytelling.

The point being, environmental storytelling is one of the primary ways a game can avoid the "tell, not show" pitfall that plagues most games, wherein expository cinematic sequences are the primary means to deliver a story, as opposed to anything that is done through the gameplay (and is able to be interacted with). I have a great (mundane) example that I wrote a blogpost about on the old BSN that features New Vegas and the Van Graff family. How that was a notable example of environmental storytelling, and urging BioWare to look at storytelling like that to escape being unduly tied to their cinematics for writing and storytelling. Some random blogpost by a nobody obviously falls on deaf ears, but it's equally applicable to Bethesda who wish to emulate the BioWare cinematic heavy storytelling style while also not diverging from their original formula.

So, how is that relevant to exploration? Simple. The Bethesda Shallow Sandbox Experience goes out of it's way to treat the player with kid gloves. Eliminating serious risk and repercussions to the player's antics closes off many avenues in which a developer could subtly reinforce narrative themes or show off characters through gameplay, "showing, not telling", whilst also not having to dedicate resources to a cinematic sequence.

Ask yourself this, will a Bethesda game ever feature something along the lines of a Vault 11? Probably not, because they don't want to inconvenience the player, and they lack the ability to craft an environment and set the tone for such a climax to happen in the first place. Hell, lining parts of the map with Deathclaws or featuring Cazadors as an enemy were bad enough, according to many gamers who have been acclimatised to the Bethesda Shallow Sandbox Experience model.

This design mindset also manifests issues in other areas, especially if you want a game with meaningful choices and mutually exclusive content.


I love it when you talk dirty sandbox.
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#3422
In Exile

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To me, even ONE example of that is sign of highly unprofessional journalism. If you want to editorialize, write a blog. If you want to be impartial and inform, then write an article. Don't pretend you're doing one when you're actually doing the other.

I don't see it. Gaming is basically all about editorials. Apart from I suppose reporting on trade shows, there's nothing to say that doesn't amount to one's opinion. It's like movie development coverage.

It's why I don't read the gaming "press". It's all blogs.
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#3423
Iakus

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Okay.

Bethesda will do what Bethesda does and make a decent Bethesda Shallow Sandbox Experience game that will sell 25+ million copies and receive critical acclaim. But they are incapable of understanding what makes the Fallout franchise tick, and their Bethesda Shallow Sandbox Experience design formula is fundamentally at odds with what makes Fallout special.
 

I wonder if an Interesting NPCs mod will be made fro Fallout 4?  Certainly added a few hundred hours playtime for me with Skyrim  :D



#3424
In Exile

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Okay.

Bethesda will do what Bethesda does and make a decent Bethesda Shallow Sandbox Experience game that will sell 25+ million copies and receive critical acclaim. But they are incapable of understanding what makes the Fallout franchise tick, and their Bethesda Shallow Sandbox Experience design formula is fundamentally at odds with what makes Fallout special.

One example, exploration is key in a Fallout game but not necessarily for the reasons one thinks. One thing Bethesda does well is implement tourist tier exploration where players are essentially divorced from the world and allowed to "explore" and "experience" content at their leisure without risk or reprecussion. In the Elder Scrolls games, this has been lampshaded by the fact that you are some special hero of prophesy, but that doesn't cut it in the Fallout franchise. Worse still, no great effort is made to make the player character play by the same rules as everyone else and this has a big influence on how you can leverage world design and game mechanics for the purposes of environmental storytelling.

The point being, environmental storytelling is one of the primary ways a game can avoid the "tell, not show" pitfall that plagues most games, wherein expository cinematic sequences are the primary means to deliver a story, as opposed to anything that is done through the gameplay (and is able to be interacted with). I have a great (mundane) example that I wrote a blogpost about on the old BSN that features New Vegas and the Van Graff family. How that was a notable example of environmental storytelling, and urging BioWare to look at storytelling like that to escape being unduly tied to their cinematics for writing and storytelling. Some random blogpost by a nobody obviously falls on deaf ears, but it's equally applicable to Bethesda who wish to emulate the BioWare cinematic heavy storytelling style while also not diverging from their original formula.

So, how is that relevant to exploration? Simple. The Bethesda Shallow Sandbox Experience goes out of it's way to treat the player with kid gloves. Eliminating serious risk and repercussions to the player's antics closes off many avenues in which a developer could subtly reinforce narrative themes or show off characters through gameplay, "showing, not telling", whilst also not having to dedicate resources to a cinematic sequence.

Ask yourself this, will a Bethesda game ever feature something along the lines of a Vault 11? Probably not, because they don't want to inconvenience the player, and they lack the ability to craft an environment and set the tone for such a climax to happen in the first place. Hell, lining parts of the map with Deathclaws or featuring Cazadors as an enemy were bad enough, according to many gamers who have been acclimatised to the Bethesda Shallow Sandbox Experience model.

This design mindset also manifests issues in other areas, especially if you want a game with meaningful choices and mutually exclusive content.


"Environmental" storytelling doesn't really work well and it's pretty hard to pull off. I'd appreciate a link to your Van Graff example though.

I found NV on this front to basically reduce to story telling by way of archeology. Take the abandoned vaults. They all tell the story in the same way, and it's ultimately less interactive than cinematics and a lot more about "telling" than showing, because it's always the formula of "here's the aftermath and some journals on why it all went wrong".

Trying to recall the VGs, I'm guessing what you're thinking of is that we come across how the Van Graff family is implied to have a lot of pull in the NCR through background dialogue to each sidequest? I wouldn't say that's really environmental storytelling.

#3425
Degenerate Rakia Time

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I wonder if an Interesting NPCs mod will be made fro Fallout 4?  Certainly added a few hundred hours playtime for me with Skyrim  :D

with a voiced PC? i doubt it