4356 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

with a voiced PC? i doubt it

True.

 

Bummer.

[N7 Spectre525]

I feel bad cutting out so much of the post but this point deserves special mention. I loved this. Iit kept the game semi-closed off early on when you were just starting but via an actual recognised threat instead of the say the typical open world thing of launching a freaking god at you that disappears when you make an arbitrary about of progress.

I also loved how it's possible to go through them early on. Via a mix of skill and luck you can skip a large chunk of the game or if you don't think you can do it you can come back later. There is even a few quests in that dangerous area that would be incredibly useful for a player early on. it's just little details like that that make the world fun. Like the playthrough I'm doing now I went face first through the deathclaws chugging sunset sasparillas and taking enough stims to kill a man just running the **** away.

 

FO3 and Skyrim had nothing like that. While the charm of wandering out of Vault 101/ Helgen and then going whether the hell you please is nice it wears off fast. 

I've done over 10 playthroughs of New Vegas, so I've killed enough Deathclaws to know that they are not to be messed with at low levels. I never got too far in Fallout 3 so imagine my surprise at finding the Deathclaw Sanctuary at level 4 and actually being able to kill a couple Deathclaws with my laser pistol. At that point I put the game down....wheres the danger and suspense when I can put down THE alpha predator of the Fallout world so easily and early in the game?

[Degenerate Rakia Time]

I've done over 10 playthroughs of New Vegas, so I've killed enough Deathclaws to know that they are not to be messed with at low levels. I never got too far in Fallout 3 so imagine my surprise at finding the Deathclaw Sanctuary at level 4 and actually being able to kill a couple Deathclaws with my laser pistol. At that point I put the game down....wheres the danger and suspense when I can put down THE alpha predator of the Fallout world so easily and early in the game?

personally i use the Deathclaws at Quarry Junction to level up fast if i get there at lvl 4 i can easily get 3-4 lvls from the deathclaws and the unmarked quests in Sloan

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

"Environmental" storytelling doesn't really work well and it's pretty hard to pull off. I'd appreciate a link to your Van Graff example though.

I found NV on this front to basically reduce to story telling by way of archeology. Take the abandoned vaults. They all tell the story in the same way, and it's ultimately less interactive than cinematics and a lot more about "telling" than showing, because it's always the formula of "here's the aftermath and some journals on why it all went wrong".

Trying to recall the VGs, I'm guessing what you're thinking of is that we come across how the Van Graff family is implied to have a lot of pull in the NCR through background dialogue to each sidequest? I wouldn't say that's really environmental storytelling.

No, it's the whole sequence when you first meet them. Giving up your weapon, being ushered in and told not to interrupt the Van Graffs as they disintegrate some NPC in a "meeting". If you decide to ignore the stern warning of the guard and venture too far in, or brandish a weapon, you're labelled a hostile and get filled with holes quite quickly.

The powerful guards, the highly expensive weapons on display, the attitude you're given when interacting with them. The player character is made to feel uncomfortable with dealing with the Van Graffs until you start doing favours for them. The VGs want you to know that you are there in their store, contingent on their good will. Blog has long been lost since the forum switch over but it had nothing to do with their influence in the NCR and everything to do with how they choose to flaunt their power and status in NV.

Ultimately mundane because the VGs are a minor faction in the grand scheme of things, but I felt that was really well done on the part of Obsidian because they were able to give the player an idea of who and what the Van Graffs were using the game itself.

[Degenerate Rakia Time]

No, it's the whole sequence when you first meet them. Giving up your weapon, being ushered in and told not to interrupt the Van Graffs as they disintegrate some NPC in a "meeting". If you decide to ignore the stern warning of the guard and venture too far in, or brandish a weapon, you're labelled a hostile and get filled with holes quite quickly.

The powerful guards, the highly expensive weapons on display, the attitude you're given when interacting with them. The player character is made to feel uncomfortable with dealing with the Van Graffs until you start doing favours for them. The VGs want you to know that you are there in their store, contingent on their good will. Blog has long been lost since the forum switch over but it had nothing to do with their influence in the NCR and everything to do with how they choose to flaunt their power and status in NV.

Ultimately mundane because the VGs are a minor faction in the grand scheme of things, but I felt that was really well done on the part of Obsidian.

eh, the moment they started giving me attitude i took those grenades from the shelf to the left and killed everyone in the store

[Iakus]

personally i use the Deathclaws at Quarry Junction to level up fast if i get there at lvl 4 i can easily get 3-4 lvls from the deathclaws and the unmarked quests in Sloan

I use that area to trigger Lily's personal quest.

 

She WILL have a psychotic break before too long 

 

Also, recently found that with That Gun and armor piercing rounds, they are...doable.  Not the Alphas, but the regular deathclaws.  

[Degenerate Rakia Time]

I use that area to trigger Lily's personal quest.

 

She WILL have a psychotic break before too long 

 

Also, recently found that with That Gun and armor piercing rounds, they are...doable.  Not the Alphas, but the regular deathclaws.  

ah so you dont have weapon mods, i just get on top of that ..whatever it is...in the middle of the quarry and clean the place out with my L96A1 and if they get close i have a Taurus Raging Bull

[In Exile]

No, it's the whole sequence when you first meet them. Giving up your weapon, being ushered in and told not to interrupt the Van Graffs as they disintegrate some NPC in a "meeting". If you decide to ignore the stern warning of the guard and venture too far in, or brandish a weapon, you're labelled a hostile and get filled with holes quite quickly.

The powerful guards, the highly expensive weapons on display, the attitude you're given when interacting with them. The player character is made to feel uncomfortable with dealing with the Van Graffs until you start doing favours for them. The VGs want you to know that you are there in their store, contingent on their good will. Blog has long been lost since the forum switch over but it had nothing to do with their influence in the NCR and everything to do with how they choose to flaunt their power and status in NV.

Ultimately mundane because the VGs are a minor faction in the grand scheme of things, but I felt that was really well done on the part of Obsidian because they were able to give the player an idea of who and what the Van Graffs were using the game itself.

 

I guess I just never got that vibe, because it's an RPG. Anyone trying to act tough isn't intimidating, they just have a plot shield until I can just obliterate the lot of them from existence if they annoy me. It's a bit like watching a five year old try and threaten you. It doesn't work because the game is so disconnected from the story. It's a bit like a RPG where you're exterminating monsters by the legion but the plot tries to tell you that meeting 5 army goons leads to a surrender. 

 

It's not a badly done scene, but I actually think it fails from an environmental POV because there's a total disconnect from the rules of the world - where I'm a more powerful killer than even most plagues - and the plot, which tells me I should be afraid of three mean goons who act tough. 

[Fast Jimmy]

I guess I just never got that vibe, because it's an RPG. Anyone trying to act tough isn't intimidating, they just have a plot shield until I can just obliterate the lot of them from existence if they annoy me. It's a bit like watching a five year old try and threaten you. It doesn't work because the game is so disconnected from the story. It's a bit like a RPG where you're exterminating monsters by the legion but the plot tries to tell you that meeting 5 army goons leads to a surrender.

It's not a badly done scene, but I actually think it fails from an environmental POV because there's a total disconnect from the rules of the world - where I'm a more powerful killer than even most plagues - and the plot, which tells me I should be afraid of three mean goons who act tough.

That's the fine balance games need to walk. Mario kills tens of thousands in his quests to save a member of the royal family... yet one erant turtle bite can take him down.

Sylvius has an interesting approach to RPG combat - if he takes a hit, he considers that losing. I have no idea how he pulls it off, but it brings to mind an interesting concept - a video game can present a conflict and have the hero triumph even with highly powerful enemies and/or equally fragile protagonists. But how do you pull it off?

[Barbarossa2010]

you know, i generally hate reddit but they did notice the best thing in the trailer, a Remington 700 VTR

Not to toot my own horn, but I posted that was a Rem 700 in the OP right after the presentation. I didn't mention it was a VTR model, so they can keep the credit.

It is the only REAL weapon thing that has made the small guns PC in me happy...oh, and I suppose there are kudos to the realistic gun shot sounds like the 10mm pistol and SMG.

When Bethesda does FO presentations, the default theme seems to be power armor and energy weapons. That's meh to me, since I typically use neither unless forced to do so.

[Degenerate Rakia Time]

Not to toot my own horn, but I posted that was a Rem 700 in the OP right after the presentation. I didn't mention it was a VTR model, so they can keep the credit.

It is the only REAL weapon thing that has made the small guns PC in me happy...oh, and I suppose there are kudos to the realistic gun shot sounds like the 10mm pistol and SMG.

When Bethesda does FO presentations, the default theme seems to be power armor and energy weapons. That's meh to me, since I typically use neither unless forced to do so.

i still dont understand why its left handed though

 

 

 

now what i want to see are revolvers....

[Barbarossa2010]

i still dont understand why its left handed though
 
 
 
now what i want to see are revolvers....

It shouldn't be. That's a left handed bolt action rifle that is clearly on the wrong shoulder. A bolt is always actioned by the outside hand and carried at the ready as such. I didn't want to start picking things apart, but that's a fairly serious oversight.

Yes, big revolvers!

[DarthSliver]

yes, lets make it a thread about Codsworth romance

Everyone needs to romance that robot. 200 years of loyalty, I'd say he deserves it lol.

[SmilesJA]

You can do a non-violent playthrough of Fallout 4. Though you still need kill some people.

 

http://gamerant.com/...laythrough-807/

 

 

And Anita and Mcintosh will still find ways to complain. 

[Liamv2]

So just like 3 and NV then.

[SmilesJA]

And other fallout games as well.

[Fast Jimmy]

And other fallout games as well.

You could literally beat Fallout 1 without (directly) killing a single person.

[BabyPuncher]

It shouldn't be. That's a left handed bolt action rifle that is clearly on the wrong shoulder. A bolt is always actioned by the outside hand and carried at the ready as such. I didn't want to start picking things apart, but that's a fairly serious oversight.

 

It's not an oversight. It's intentional.

 

The weapons in first person shooters are very often left handed because it exposes the more interesting side of the weapon to the camera. So the player gets to see the bolt cycle and such.

 

See this article on TV tropes.

[Fast Jimmy]

It's not an oversight. It's intentional.

The weapons in first person shooters are very often left handed because it exposes the more interesting side of the weapon to the camera. So the player gets to see the bolt cycle and such.

See this article on TV tropes.

I would post a gif here from Pulp Fiction saying "check out the big brain on Brett!" but Google Images has made it far too difficult to do. So just everyone use your imagination here.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I guess I just never got that vibe, because it's an RPG. Anyone trying to act tough isn't intimidating, they just have a plot shield until I can just obliterate the lot of them from existence if they annoy me. It's a bit like watching a five year old try and threaten you. It doesn't work because the game is so disconnected from the story. It's a bit like a RPG where you're exterminating monsters by the legion but the plot tries to tell you that meeting 5 army goons leads to a surrender.

It's not a badly done scene, but I actually think it fails from an environmental POV because there's a total disconnect from the rules of the world - where I'm a more powerful killer than even most plagues - and the plot, which tells me I should be afraid of three mean goons who act tough.

That's a weird argument to make. You might as well be saying that RPG's shouldn't have combat at all because the player is destined to overcome it or because expert players will find it easy. Granted, New Vegas is easier than it really should be and you become overpowered fairly quickly, especially once you go through the DLCs. But Jean Baptiste has similar defensive stats to a Deathclaw and the Van Graff Guards are labelled at level 17 pre-scaling, whereas the NCR troopers are at level 5. So it's internally consistent with what the plot tries to tell you.

Most players would probably get rolled in their first confrontations seeing as you'd likely meet the Van Graffs well before you become strong enough to break the game's balance. And becoming powerful enough to obliterate the Van Graffs after they've been giving you attitude can be a gratifying feeling. Feeling of character progression. Nothing to do with temporary plot armour or anything, because you aren't forced to fight them. You can work for them, simply patronise the store, or ignore them completely. Really, if I didn't know I can rely on you to respond to me seriously, I'd almost think you were taking me for a ride. You can't reasonably expect a AAA game where a mid level challenge in a base game can still threaten a high level to post-DLC endgame behemoth. Let alone in an RPG where character progression is vital.

And all of this assumes a combat oriented character. You could play a non combat oriented character and extend the time it takes until you break the game's difficulty combat wise. Sure the difficulty still breaks at some point but you can't design the entire game around the idea that you are a level 30 destroyer of worlds.

[Barbarossa2010]

It's not an oversight. It's intentional.
 
The weapons in first person shooters are very often left handed because it exposes the more interesting side of the weapon to the camera. So the player gets to see the bolt cycle and such.
 
See this article on TV tropes.

Well thanks for that info I suppose, but having been made dumber for actually having read it all, it doesn't appear to be all that common outside of the relatively few games and examples listed (3/4 of which I never played--and someone actually backed-off from doing it again); I could only find one instance where the developer actually had the gall to mirror chamber a bolt action rifle. There was no instance of it in either FO3 or FONV for any of it's bolt action rifles. For really getting nothing out of it, (other than a load of $#!+ from gun nerds like me) and being that it makes the weapon look more stupid than sexy, it's hard to believe anyone would consciously do it. But what do I know? Probably ought to start paying less mechanical attention to things.

Thank God modders never do it, they'd never hear the end of it in their comments section.

I'm still hoping that FO4 will not do this for the Remington 700, and that it's some sort of video anomaly (has to be right?-- maybe you can play left hand oriented and the film was backwards---that's what I'll believe for now until that belief is crushed at release). Outside the sheer idiocy of the reload animation that will be required, it will be terribly immersion breaking...and they will be in an extremely small crowd of developers to do it to a bolt action rifle (which can literally only function one way, whereas other weapons can hide it better [semi- or full-autos that are mag fed), but it may very well NOT be the worst design decision we see, if it ends up in fact, to be in game.

Hopefully you can reload while the scope is still up like you can with the Antimateriel rifle and hunting rifle (both of which use a proper reload animation and porting). As a Small Guns guy in FO, many of my fears about Bethesda doing Gun things right like Obsidian finally did with NV, are starting to show themselves. What's next, no reloading of ammo; no different ammo types....oh right...you're supposed to play FO in Power Armor and Energy Weapons.

Here's to still hoping they're not going to let me down, just so people can play minecraft.

[AventuroLegendary]

Ultimately mundane because the VGs are a minor faction in the grand scheme of things, but I felt that was really well done on the part of Obsidian because they were able to give the player an idea of who and what the Van Graffs were using the game itself.

 

For a ruthless mob family obsessed with energy weapons, they seem pretty liberal with letting customers touch their stuff. Or did they fix that exploit?

[Cyonan]

For a ruthless mob family obsessed with energy weapons, they seem pretty liberal with letting customers touch their stuff. Or did they fix that exploit?

 

As far as I know they're still okay with you taking all of their stuff.

 

Provided you give them a bucket to wear as a hat first.

[AventuroLegendary]

As far as I know they're still okay with you taking all of their stuff.

 

Provided you give them a bucket to wear as a hat first.

 

"Hey, you! Halt!"

"W-what?"

"I see you struggling with all that merchandise! Have some decency and use a shopping basket!"

"Right..."

[Eternal Phoenix]

As far as I know they're still okay with you taking all of their stuff.

 

Provided you give them a bucket to wear as a hat first.

 

I love Skyrim logic.