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[Fast Jimmy]

Whatever. It's over for that type of game anyways, as far as this particular company is concerned. And now Fallout.


I sound flippant, but honestly, I don't think it's necessarily a good thing. VO's made no difference to me in DAI. The core of the game is stupid, voiced or not. I think we can at least agree that you want good stories. All I'm gonna say in DA2's defense is that it was a better story than that. And it was because of the specific nature and long origin of the character. Not necessarily the voice. It would have still conveyed the same thing, without a voice. But if you're gonna move the goalposts and also say it should have multiple races, then whatever dude. It kind of misses the point of the first and second acts.

You're right, it is over for non-VO games for Bethesda and Fallout. And FO4 will win game of the year in all likelihood... just like DA:I did. DA2 had a clever PREMISE (albeit, I don't think it had a good STORY), but it's execution was faulty for a lot of reasons, not merely the VO.

[Fast Jimmy]

I don't think it's brilliant either...Don't get me wrong. Just better. I appreciate it probably even more now though, considering how low the bar has gone. I wish I had told them so, when it was fresh.


Are you going to even buy FO4?

Outside of Kickstarters, I never assume I am going to buy a game before it comes out and I can read some reviews on it.

Before, it was a money concern - I'm not going to fork over cash based solely on hype. Now, it's an issue of time. I can't game nearly as much as I used to, so if I buy something, it needs to be significantly better than what I already have in queue to play (and haven't yet).

So the answer - I don't know. Also, as for your edit in the response I already quoted... different races would have worked perfectly fine in DA2. A dwarf or elvish refugee would have been just as... refugee-ish... as a human Hawke.

[Fast Jimmy]

No, that would suck. Gonna have the Not-Carvers and Not-Bethanys and Not-Gamlens and Not-Leandras and Not-Malcolm in Legacy. And not mage/templar themes in the family? Gonna just play a dwarf who just joins the expedition? Gonna be the one elf not treated like crap, killing Kelder in the caves? Gonna be the one Qunari that people aren't scared shitless of, sipping beer with Varric and playing matchmaker for Aveline, rising to hightown next to the Viscount?

Ugh.

You play the one Mage not treated like crap, why not the one elf? Also, playing as a Qunari is a silly idea - DA:I exemplified that.

The entire premise of Legacy was made after the game was completed. Your dad's history was not integral to the main story of the game. They could have needed Hawke blood (of any race) for any number of MacGuffin reasons. The only part of the game that would need major tweaking would be Bethany... and she can die in the first five minutes of the game, regardless.

[Fast Jimmy]

Malcolm was the reason Leandra aloped and you were born....and tied to Gamlen's attitude and how you could win back a family estate in hightown. A main part of the story is the whole attempt at restoring family, being comfortable in Kirkwall again. Why bother trying to write that in multiple ways?

An elf could be Dalish and (high end) City Elf, both groups reject the romance, couple must elope.

A dwarf could be Casteless and Caste... again, fairly easy to handle.

The point being that the decision to be human only was made LONG before ANY of these details were known about the story. They fashioned the story around being human only, they didn't fashion human only around the story they wanted to tell.

I don't know.. it's not a crime to just a write a simple story sometimes and not try to account for every parameter and option. I'd blow my brains out if this kind of demand was made on all literature.

Which is why the story of Hawke mah have been better off as just that - a story. One of the DA books or a side project game, like Dragon Age Legends. Anything other than a direct sequel to DA:O.


Also, this is all wildly off-topic. The Voiced Protagonist was slightly there, since it was loosely based on FO4. But what DA2 was or could have done differently is not really for this thread.

[FlyingSquirrel]

If you are trying to say DA:O isn't the most perfect game in the world and doesn't offer every voice imaginable, then I'm not going to argue with you. If you are trying to say a VO lets you give The Big Speech at the climax of the game, I'm not going to argue with you, either. But if you are going to say that a VO options gives more options than a silent PC, then I'm going to have to disagree.

 

I think voiced characters have more unique and memorable personalities while unvoiced characters probably have a more diverse range of philosophies. My range of gaming experience is probably narrower than that of most BSN posters, but I suspect I could - if I chose - give the Warden, the Lone Wanderer, and the Courier - vastly different attitudes and moral alignments from one playthrough to another. On the other hand, I can't think of many individual dialogue lines for those three that were especially quotable or clever - often it's just variations of "This is horrible, how can I help?" vs. "I'll help but only if you pay me somehow" vs. "I'm not interested, leave me alone." Shepard, Hawke, the Inquisitor, and Geralt are a little more restricted in their overall goals and allegiances but can express a variety of distinct attitudes and ways of relating to other people.

 

The one unvoiced protagonist who *doesn't* work for me is Isaac Clarke in the first Dead Space. It felt completely wrong for him to remain silent with the other two characters talking to him all the time, especially when (1) he does occasionally yell when something attacks him, and (2) given that the three main characters are split up in the midst of a dangerous situation, they should logically be concerned when he doesn't respond over the radio.

[Commander Rpg]

Guys, you're off topic.

[Dermain]

The recent YouTube video stating 170K lines has me doubtful. 

 

The thing that has me doubtful is that Howard previously claimed that the PC has ~13k lines.

 

if they have 170k lines and only 13k are the PC what are the rest of the 157k lines about?

 

You can, in some Origins, express a "screw you" attitude. The Dwarf Noble comes to mind, where he basically lets you know that it's either join him or die in the Deep Roads. Or the Dalish Origin, where you can call him a shem, but he tells you that you will die a slow painful death if you don't come.

None of these are limiting the TYPES of characters you can make. Only what actions you can do with them. You can create a character who dislikes the Wardens - there are numerous dialogue options to reflect that you don't identify with them or enjoy your new role. You can play an assertive leader character that talks to people in a straight, confident and no-nonsense manner (despite what InExile says). You can play a Human Noble who doesn't care the least about his family or past.

The game is limited in what actions you can take because it is a video game and will ALWAYS be limited in the actions you can take. You can be an assertive leader and not give the big speech. You can hate the Wardens and not burn the treaties your army is built on. You can be an elvish racist and not kill Duncan in his sleep or run away during cover of night. These are characters you can play, even if you can't do EVERYTHING you'd want to do as them.

Try to play a Shephard who is stoic, quiet or not a people person. Try playing a Hawke who is subtle... or not human (a casualty of moving to the voiced character). Or an Inquisitor who is always excited and passionate about their work and the people around them. Its not a matter of the game not letting you do something... the game will literally be impossible. Shephard will be off giving speeches completely uncoaxed, Hawke will goody-two-shoes-avenger/maniac-jokester/blood-thirsty-jerk right in your face, at all times. The Inquisitor, in an attempt to course correct from over-the-top Hawke, is a deadpan as they come.

 

Preach it Jimmy!!!

 

To channel my inner Sylvius the Mad, the story can be about anything the player wishes. It's all about options - the option to play as a different race, each with its own backstory, lord and culture, was one of the coolest things about DA:O to me. Dialogue options are the major form of choice in most RPGs, but the ability to craft someone of a multitude of races (and have that ability mean something in game) is a great form of option.

 

Is he still around? I can't stomach the upper parts of this forum anymore. 

 

You're right, it is over for non-VO games for Bethesda and Fallout. And FO4 will win game of the year in all likelihood... just like DA:I did. DA2 had a clever PREMISE (albeit, I don't think it had a good STORY), but it's execution was faulty for a lot of reasons, not merely the VO.

 

But...but...Witcher 3!!!!! 

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Witcher 3 won't stand a chance against Fallout 4. Inquisition was the consensus GOTY last year, some giving it the award barely 2 weeks after release.

Bethesda would have to do something truly awful not to win it. They've invested too many Doritos not to win.

[Dermain]

Witcher 3 won't stand a chance against Fallout 4. Inquisition was the consensus GOTY last year, some giving it the award barely 2 weeks after release.

Bethesda would have to do something truly awful not to win it. They've invested too many Doritos not to win.

 

I will repeat, but......but...but...WITCHER 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111!1

 

Of course, all of the people saying that Witcher 3 should be GOTY right now will probably sing a different tune when FO4 comes out regardless of it's overall quality.

[Liamv2]

Lol GOTY awards.

[Simfam]

Witcher 3 won't stand a chance against Fallout 4. Inquisition was the consensus GOTY last year, some giving it the award barely 2 weeks after release.

Bethesda would have to do something truly awful not to win it. They've invested too many Doritos not to win.

 

Nothing says quality like some spicy snacks and mountain dew.

[Dermain]

Nothing says quality like some spicy snacks and mountain dew.

 

Bow down to your overlord!

 

Spoiler

[Simfam]

Bow down to your overlord!

 

Spoiler

 

lol even that face smells like c*nt

[Fast Jimmy]

Nothing says quality like some spicy snacks and mountain dew.

[Dermain]

 

That's pretty much my response when I drink mountain dew or eat doritoes. 

 

 

 

But ya, Fallout 4...

 

If they really do have 170k lines of voiced dialogue then it seems Bethesda is banking on their game selling billions of copies regardless of it's actual quality. The budget has to be even larger than Destiny's, and I have a feeling that people will be complaining about the download size.

[FlyingSquirrel]

The thing that has me doubtful is that Howard previously claimed that the PC has ~13k lines.

 

if they have 170k lines and only 13k are the PC what are the rest of the 157k lines about?

 

That does seem strange - are the NPCs all going to  launch into long conversations with each other after the PC asks them a single question?

 

The only other thing I can think of (aside from it just being a mistake) is that the 157k figure includes:

 

(1) every single instance of a one-line auto-response from characters who don't otherwise have dialogue, e.g. the Rivet City people who will say "Did you hear about the fight at the Muddy Rudder?" if you click on them while walking past them;

 

(2) every single instance of background dialogue, e.g. people ordering food at bars and diners;

 

(3) every random battle cry "Special delivery!" "You're gonna die!" etc.

[Fast Jimmy]

That does seem strange - are the NPCs all going to launch into long conversations with each other after the PC asks them a single question?

The only other thing I can think of (aside from it just being a mistake) is that the 157k figure includes:

(1) every single instance of a one-line auto-response from characters who don't otherwise have dialogue, e.g. the Rivet City people who will say "Did you hear about the fight at the Muddy Rudder?" if you click on them while walking past them;

(2) every single instance of background dialogue, e.g. people ordering food at bars and diners;

(3) every random battle cry "Special delivery!" "You're gonna die!" etc.

...Gary?

...GARRRRRY!



OT: Technically, it is 144K NPC dialogue lines, since the PC is voiced twice (male/female), each at 13K a pop.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Or maybe it counts as a line every time your dog barks?

 

BTW, has anyone ever found if there's a way to cure the guys in the vault who keep yelling "Gary" of whatever made them insane? I don't like when games force me to fight characters who seem delusional and unlikely to be a threat if I hadn't stumbled across them, so I just turned around and ran back to the surface instead of fighting my way through to look for computers to hack. But it seemed like maybe something was in the air that caused it, given that, IIRC, the LW briefly hallucinates after entering that vault.

[Fast Jimmy]

Or maybe it counts as a line every time your dog barks?

BTW, has anyone ever found if there's a way to cure the guys in the vault who keep yelling "Gary" of whatever made them insane? I don't like when games force me to fight characters who seem delusional and unlikely to be a threat if I hadn't stumbled across them, so I just turned around and ran back to the surface instead of fighting my way through to look for computers to hack. But it seemed like maybe something was in the air that caused it, given that, IIRC, the LW briefly hallucinates after entering that vault.

No, they were all clones who became crazy, only communicating with one word - Gary. They killed everyone else in the Vault who wasn't a Gary clone. Very odd area.

[Dark Helmet]

Or maybe it counts as a line every time your dog barks?

 

BTW, has anyone ever found if there's a way to cure the guys in the vault who keep yelling "Gary" of whatever made them insane? I don't like when games force me to fight characters who seem delusional and unlikely to be a threat if I hadn't stumbled across them, so I just turned around and ran back to the surface instead of fighting my way through to look for computers to hack. But it seemed like maybe something was in the air that caused it, given that, IIRC, the LW briefly hallucinates after entering that vault.

 

Gary? Garrrry!! Gary gary! Gaaaarrrrrrryyyyyy!!!!