123 réponses à ce sujet

[MACharlie1]

Just like in any other form of fiction - no body - no death. Thats been the general rule. Bioware included the term "will likely perish" to give themselves a way out if they wanted Hawke/Stroud/Alistair/Loghain back. 

[KaiserShep]

Yeah, I'm calling BS on that one. They are just throwing conspiracy-theory fetishists a bone, IMO, like they did with IT.

I'm sort of on Han's side too when it comes to whoever is left to the Fade buying it, but if Hawke survived either way while the Warden ally didn't, I'd wish that the lulz to come came in the form of currency, because I'd be set for life. 

[His Name was HYR!!]

but they said "likey" when you were given the choice, thats like the key word, if they are bringing hawke back again it's been a long time coming

bold is the edit

 

Likely should not have been there at all. It was BS then and BS again now.

 

That word only served to give the player a ray of hope about sending one of their allies at Nightmare... only to crush it shortly thereafter.

 

And let's not kid ourselves, people would have created the same conspiracy-theories even if the word "likely" was never used.

[KaiserShep]

Likely should not have been there at all. It was BS then and BS again now.

 

That word only served to give the player a ray of hope about sending one of their allies at Nightmare... only to crush it shortly thereafter.

 

And let's not kid ourselves, people would have created the same conspiracy-theories even if the word "likely" was never used.

 

Well, that's sort of supported by what people were discussing regarding Flemeth's dialogue in DA2, with all that abyss talk.

[Fireheart]

Didn''t read the article or whatever but going from what other posts I've read... Damn, I would loved to see Archy return in Dai, I miss him still, I wonder how he would have fit into HltA? Would he have been working with Corypheus on purpose, or did Corypheus trick him into helping, saying that aiding him would be rewarding to the darkspawn somehow? Or like Panda said, did he regain his memories and suddenly want to help out or what... But honestly, not much point in wondering now. :/ I left Architect alive, really hoped to see him after his mention in Da2, was expecting something crazy to pop off, guess I'll have to wait until the next game.

[Fireheart]

Just like in any other form of fiction - no body - no death. Thats been the general rule. Bioware included the term "will likely perish" to give themselves a way out if they wanted Hawke/Stroud/Alistair/Loghain back.

I agree with this as well. Especially if they bring the character back, fans can't call Bioware out for "retconning", because the character was never fully established as being dead.

[Ariella]

Didn''t read the article or whatever but going from what other posts I've read... Damn, I would loved to see Archy return in Dai, I miss him still, I wonder how he would have fit into HltA? Would he have been working with Corypheus on purpose, or did Corypheus trick him into helping, saying that aiding him would be rewarding to the darkspawn somehow? Or like Panda said, did he regain his memories and suddenly want to help out or what... But honestly, not much point in wondering now. :/ I left Architect alive, really hoped to see him after his mention in Da2, was expecting something crazy to pop off, guess I'll have to wait until the next game.

The original is still around, just locked. The first two or three posts are interview iirc. It's in twitter format just be warned.

[Absafraginlootly]

It never looked to me like resurrection, more like he caught the body right before the point of death. And the conversations concerning it talk about possession of a Warden rather than a Warden corpse, which possibly would have been less frightening. Though if it's dead, it may be why Corypheus can jump bodies without dying like the Archdemon. If a Warden is simply a corpse, no soul.

 

Thing is, if they do that it's pretty crappy writing. You don't so something that dramatic without setting it up before hand, like in Legacy.

I don't know whether the warden he took at the temple of mythal was dead or not but I'm pretty sure Larius/Janeka was alive.

[Ariella]

I don't know whether the warden he took at the temple of mythal was dead or not but I'm pretty sure Larius/Janeka was alive.

Larius was mostly darkspawn by that point, and Janeka was souless in general...

[BansheeOwnage]

Question for people who think the Architect should "stay dead":

 

Did you have a problem with Flemeth's return despite no (overt) indication she was not dead if you fought her in DA:O?

[Arisugawa]

Question for people who think the Architect should "stay dead":
 
Did you have a problem with Flemeth's return despite no (overt) indication she was not dead if you fought her in DA:O?

No, but in Origins , we had a conversation with Morrigan post-Flemeth battle where it was clearly indicated that Flemeth was in all likelihood NOT dead, and that Morrigan would be using the time you bought her to prepare.

[Vespasian 91]

I'd be happy with the Architect returning, and it would make more sense then the excuse we got for the second coming of leliana if you killed her in origins.

[In Exile]

No, but in Origins , we had a conversation with Morrigan post-Flemeth battle where it was clearly indicated that Flemeth was in all likelihood NOT dead, and that Morrigan would be using the time you bought her to prepare.

 

But it wasn't good enough for people when Leliana was killed off in a room full of potentially magical healing dust, so whether or not that's a Checkov's gun or proper foreshadowing is a pretty big YMMV.

 

I, for one, don't think Bioware has to put their cards out on the table in the same game. 

[Ariella]

Question for people who think the Architect should "stay dead":
 
Did you have a problem with Flemeth's return despite no (overt) indication she was not dead if you fought her in DA:O?

Let's see, Flemeth is a legendary figure who has lived hundreds of years and done impossible things. We know this at introduction.

The Architect was one talking darkspawn out of a number of them in DAA. He didn't have Corypheus' 'I'm a magister... argh!' speech, nor did he have Flemeth's history.

[AresKeith]

Let's see, Flemeth is a legendary figure who has lived hundreds of years and done impossible things. We know this at introduction.

The Architect was one talking darkspawn out of a number of them in DAA. He didn't have Corypheus' 'I'm a magister... argh!' speech, nor did he have Flemeth's history.

 

Those aren't really necessary for the Architect to pull a body switch after being attack by the Warden

 

If anything the reveal that he is a Magister gives a reason that he might still be alive 

[In Exile]

Let's see, Flemeth is a legendary figure who has lived hundreds of years and done impossible things. We know this at introduction.

The Architect was one talking darkspawn out of a number of them in DAA. He didn't have Corypheus' 'I'm a magister... argh!' speech, nor did he have Flemeth's history.

 

I can't wrap my head around how people thought the Architect was the same kind of thing in DA:A as the other darkspawn. Aside from the fact that the character model was wholly alien to any other darkspawn and far more humanoid (in fact, looking like his flesh melted into his body along with some unrecognizable armor), his speech patterns were wholly unlike the Awakened (which struggled with a guttural kind of hulkspeak).  Plus, his story made no sense - he awakened on his own, but other darkpawn need a reverse Joining, and don't even acquire 1/10th of his subtle cunning?

 

Flemeth was pitched as an abomination. Her story was supposed to be about finding some demon, like Uldred. Later on Morrigan suggests maybe that's not true entirely... but our belief at that point was still "powerful abomination", not "literal god". 

[Ariella]

Those aren't really necessary for the Architect to pull a body switch after being attack by the Warden
 
If anything the reveal that he is a Magister gives a reason that he might still be alive

We weren't given that in DAA where it should have been. You don't write these things for the guys who are going to buy all the media. You write for the guy who is going to play the game and that's it.

There was no set up, no pay off, and no evidence that the magisters even have the same powers. Architect couldn't influence the minds of Wardens, but it could accelerate the taint for example.

Good writing requires set up and pay off. It also requires show don't tell. We weren't shown anything of the kind in the Architect's case.

[Ariella]

I can't wrap my head around how people thought the Architect was the same kind of thing in DA:A as the other darkspawn. Aside from the fact that the character model was wholly alien to any other darkspawn and far more humanoid (in fact, looking like his flesh melted into his body along with some unrecognizable armor), his speech patterns were wholly unlike the Awakened (which struggled with a guttural kind of hulkspeak).  Plus, his story made no sense - he awakened on his own, but other darkpawn need a reverse Joining, and don't even acquire 1/10th of his subtle cunning?

 

Flemeth was pitched as an abomination. Her story was supposed to be about finding some demon, like Uldred. Later on Morrigan suggests maybe that's not true entirely... but our belief at that point was still "powerful abomination", not "literal god". 

 

I never said she was a god. I said she was a creature of legend who has lived for hundreds of years and gotten involved in a lot of rather famous or infamous lives throughout history. When we're introduced to her in DAO the others are nervous or outright scared of the Witch of the Wilds. It's a lot different than the amnesic darkspawn. 

 

As for awakening on his own... how many stories out there in speculative fiction deal with the folly of trying to speed or tamper with evolution? Just as possible considering what we knew at the time, and more plausible considering nobody had heard a whisper, a peep, of the Magisters until Legacy, And honestly, I find the idea of darkspawn evolving scarier than bringing back the seven. 

 

Lastly, DAA made the Architect's on par with wet tissue paper. He wasn't even the main villain. He was a side show. 

 

Of course, I thought DAA the worst of all the plots in the franchise, and generally would be very happy if we never heard from it again.

[ModernAcademic]

The Architect is AGAINST the Calling and opposes the existence of the Old Gods. 

 

If he were there, he would oppose Nightmare, not replace it.

[His Name was HYR!!]

Well, that's sort of supported by what people were discussing regarding Flemeth's dialogue in DA2, with all that abyss talk.

 

Is that more reason to buy into this nonsense, or less?

 

So Hawke tried to jump out across the abyss. Flemeth did not say he/she will, definitively, fly with every leap -- perhaps this is the abyss Hawke falls in.

 

Besides which, "Here lies" is typically the prefix of a tombstone. To me, the quest title all but spells the end of Hawke.

[midnight tea]

Is that more reason to buy into this nonsense, or less?

 

So Hawke tried to jump out across the abyss. Flemeth did not say he/she will, definitively, fly with every leap -- perhaps this is the abyss Hawke falls in.

 

Besides which, "Here lies" is typically the prefix of a tombstone. To me, the quest title all but spells the end of Hawke.

 

Does it (considering that Hawke doesn't necessarily have to die there)?

 

For me it was always pretty literal - I mean, the Inquisitor and others fall into Abyssal Rift after all....

[KaiserShep]

Is that more reason to buy into this nonsense, or less?

 

So Hawke tried to jump out across the abyss. Flemeth did not say he/she will, definitively, fly with every leap -- perhaps this is the abyss Hawke falls in.

 

Besides which, "Here lies" is typically the prefix of a tombstone. To me, the quest title all but spells the end of Hawke.

What I mean to say is that people would have talked about it regardless of whether or not the caption said "likely", because of that dialogue.

 

But, the sacrificial beard took one for the team so...great I guess. 

[Arisugawa]

The Architect was one talking darkspawn out of a number of them in DAA. He didn't have Corypheus' 'I'm a magister... argh!' speech, nor did he have Flemeth's history.

 

And, The Architect all but said he was an anomaly - a darkspawn who awoke to self-awareness with no explanation of why it happened.

 

I realize that one takes the word of any character at their own risk: that character may be lying, may be omitting details, or may honestly not know the truth. However, that does give context to why the audience may not equate the The Architect to the Tevinter Magisters. Especially when, as you say, The Architect is just one of several talking darkspawn in Awakening. That he has a unique character model means nothing. The Mother also had one.

[DuskWanderer]

The Architect was an interesting villain, but I'm really tired of the villains being darkspawn. Meredith, flawed as she was, was infinitely hatable because she was so evil: The Archdemon was basically a beast and Corypheus was too one-note to be hatable.