123 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

And, The Architect all but said he was an anomaly - a darkspawn who awoke to self-awareness with no explanation of why it happened.

 

I realize that one takes the word of any character at their own risk: that character may be lying, may be omitting details, or may honestly not know the truth. However, that does give context to why the audience may not equate the The Architect to the Tevinter Magisters. Especially when, as you say, The Architect is just one of several talking darkspawn in Awakening. That he has a unique character model means nothing. The Mother also had one.

 

Well The Mother was a human broodmother which could mean others could look like her, the other one we kept seeing we're the Dwaven Broodmothers

 

Another thing that increased the connection was that the Architect and Cory's design were very similar to each other

[Boost32]

I dont understand why he need to state that he will write more transexuals character. Its completely irrelevant for the setting, its the same as he saying he will write a white heterosexual male character, it really doesnt matter the sexuality of the character.
They are making it to much of a big deal, if they want to write a transexual character go and do it, but doesnt try to make it rome of the most relevante feature of the next game.

[raging_monkey]

Why boost.... why...

[In Exile]

And, The Architect all but said he was an anomaly - a darkspawn who awoke to self-awareness with no explanation of why it happened.

 

I realize that one takes the word of any character at their own risk: that character may be lying, may be omitting details, or may honestly not know the truth. However, that does give context to why the audience may not equate the The Architect to the Tevinter Magisters. Especially when, as you say, The Architect is just one of several talking darkspawn in Awakening. That he has a unique character model means nothing. The Mother also had one.

 

It gives as much context as the people who thought Corypheus died in Legacy. It wasn't especially reasonable to infer that the Architect was a darkspawn in DAA, and it's certainly unreasonable now based on what we know now. 

[Arisugawa]

It gives as much context as the people who thought Corypheus died in Legacy. It wasn't especially reasonable to infer that the Architect was a darkspawn in DAA, and it's certainly unreasonable now based on what we know now. 

 

Except that in Legacy, we can clearly see Corypheus look at Janeka or Larius and smile just before the end, and then either Warden acts differently upon Corpyheus' death. I knew the first time I played it that Corypheus wasn't dead, and it made me reluctant to play Legacy going forward because I didn't want to import a world state where he had escaped the Vinnmark prison.That obviously turned out to be immaterial since Legacy happens regardless if you played it. The Keep has no world state where Hawke did not go to the Vinnmark prison.

 

Legacy foreshadows Corypheus's survival, as Origins foreshadows Flemeth's. Awakening did not do the same for The Architect.

 

In my opinion, his guaranteed survival also cheapens the decision whether or not to side with him at the end of Awakening. Don't get me wrong, if The Architect is seen again, it certainly won't the first time a narrative hook in one game is downplayed in another. I just continue to hope that this is one decision that sticks.

[In Exile]

Except that in Legacy, we can clearly see Corypheus look at Janeka or Larius and smile just before the end, and then either Warden acts differently upon Corpyheus' death. I knew the first time I played it that Corypheus wasn't dead, and it made me reluctant to play Legacy going forward because I didn't want to import a world state where he had escaped the Vinnmark prison.That obviously turned out to be immaterial since Legacy happens regardless if you played it. The Keep has no world state where Hawke did not go to the Vinnmark prison.

 

Legacy foreshadows Corypheus's survival, as Origins foreshadows Flemeth's. Awakening did not do the same for The Architect.

 

In my opinion, his guaranteed survival also cheapens the decision whether or not to side with him at the end of Awakening. Don't get me wrong, if The Architect is seen again, it certainly won't the first time a narrative hook in one game is downplayed in another. I just continue to hope that this is one decision that sticks.

 

I'm not saying DA should follow up on the Architect again. I'm just saying I think it's silly to conclude - based solely on DA:A, and looking at no other media - that the Architect is a darkspawn like any other. The reason I use Legacy is to illustrate what I find to be the absurdity of the notion. I think that it is equally defensible to say that Corypheus died in DA2 as it is to say that the Architect was the same kind of creature as the Messenger. 

[Boost32]

Why boost.... why...

Why? Because its irrelevant if a transexual/homosexual/heterosexual/pansexual/whateversexual character will be in the next Dragon Age game.

This game was about dragons, epic battles, interesting antagonists, companion interactions, difficult choices, etc. But now its seem that every interview needs to be about X character sexuality.

I enjoyed DAI but its has a lot of flaws and instead of adressing them is seens that the writers are only worried to say things like "the next game will have a transexual character", who will buy the next game just because they have a transexual char in it?

Why not talk about how this new kind of conversation destroy the cinematic feeling of the game? A memorable antoganist from the books, instead of becoming a memorable antagonist from the games, became a forgettable fight because the devs didnt felt the need of doing a cinematic cutscene for him,

Speaking of antagonist, how many liked Corypheus in DAI? He was imposing in Legacy but became a joke in DAI. Calpernia, Imshael and Nightmare could have all be superb antagonists, but they suffered from lack of exposition, why the devs dont comment on this?

Where are the interesting sidequest with hard choice in the end? There is nothing like the smuggling Lyrium operation form DAO, where you could give the Lyrium to the corrupt templar with this helping the mages or giving it to the good templar but it would strike a blow against the mage collective.

Where is the heavy emotional story like the Cousland massacre or the Leandra zumbification? Its all flowers and rainbow now, and with the exception of the Ruler of Orlais and Mage vs Templars, there is no shadows of grey.

 

I want the devs to forget a little about sexuality and talk more about those flaws that need to be corrected in the next game.

[AresKeith]

I want the devs to forget a little about sexuality and talk more about those flaws that need to be corrected in the next game.

 

I'm pretty sure they know, it's an interview they talk about the stuff their asked 

[Boost32]

I'm pretty sure they know, it's an interview they talk about the stuff their asked 

It's the second interview with the same subject? So the interviewer is bad, he/she should ask about more relevant subjects.

[AresKeith]

It's the second interview with the same subject? So the interviewer is bad, he/she should ask about more relevant subjects.

 

I think it's the same interview they just posted the rest of it 

[raging_monkey]

It was rhetorical boost

[BansheeOwnage]

No, but in Origins , we had a conversation with Morrigan post-Flemeth battle where it was clearly indicated that Flemeth was in all likelihood NOT dead, and that Morrigan would be using the time you bought her to prepare.

I forgot about that.

 

But it wasn't good enough for people when Leliana was killed off in a room full of potentially magical healing dust, so whether or not that's a Checkov's gun or proper foreshadowing is a pretty big YMMV.

 

I, for one, don't think Bioware has to put their cards out on the table in the same game. 

But the thing is, if you have to fight her, you have to have corrupted the ashes. I would say they wouldn't heal anymore. Not to mention, I don't think simply being in the same room heals you.

 

Let's see, Flemeth is a legendary figure who has lived hundreds of years and done impossible things. We know this at introduction.

The Architect was one talking darkspawn out of a number of them in DAA. He didn't have Corypheus' 'I'm a magister... argh!' speech, nor did he have Flemeth's history.

The Architect is also a legendary figure who has lived for over a thousand years and did the "impossible". Just because we didn't know that at the time doesn't mean Bioware didn't, and it doesn't mean he can't come back.

 

The Architect is AGAINST the Calling and opposes the existence of the Old Gods. 

 

If he were there, he would oppose Nightmare, not replace it.

So, a figure like the "spirit" of Justinia?

[BansheeOwnage]

Why? Because its irrelevant if a transexual/homosexual/heterosexual/pansexual/whateversexual character will be in the next Dragon Age game.

This game was about dragons, epic battles, interesting antagonists, companion interactions, difficult choices, etc. But now its seem that every interview needs to be about X character sexuality.

This thread is specifically not about this topic. Don't bring it up, please.

[X Equestris]

But the thing is, if you have to fight her, you have to have corrupted the ashes. I would say they wouldn't heal anymore. Not to mention, I don't think simply being in the same room heals you.

We don't really have anything other than Kolgrim's word that the ashes will lose their powers if they are corrupted. Even so, it's possible she got some amount of the ashes before the dragon blood soaked them completely. Not to mention that there is the possibility of other causes for the ashes' powers. Like the mountain of lyrium, which Oghren mentions. It's even possible that the Maker actually did intervene to save Leliana.

[BansheeOwnage]

We don't really have anything other than Kolgrim's word that the ashes will lose their powers if they are corrupted. Even so, it's possible she got some amount of the ashes before the dragon blood soaked them completely. Not to mention that there is the possibility of other causes for the ashes' powers. Like the mountain of lyrium, which Oghren mentions. It's even possible that the Maker actually did intervene to save Leliana.

But how would her dead body move to get the ashes? And the lyrium might have given them their power, but it won't heal her. As for the Maker, it can't be, because they said they wouldn't reveal his existence or not.

 

It's academic though, because in the end they brought her back because they wanted to. Nothing else really matters.

[In Exile]

But the thing is, if you have to fight her, you have to have corrupted the ashes. I would say they wouldn't heal anymore. Not to mention, I don't think simply being in the same room heals you.

 

That doesn't work. There are two explanations for the ashes:

 

1. The Maker is real, Andraste is literally blessed and his Bride. In that case, Leliana being alive is literally divine intervention.

2. The Maker is BS, Andraste isn't in any way divine, and there's a magical explanation for their healing power (e.g. there is lyrium in the mountain that grants healing power like Oghren says or - like we now suspect based on DA:I - it was an old even temple like the Temple of Mythal and had some magical properties).

 

The actual ashes are a red herring regardless of what you believe. 

 

One of those two things must be true. And in either case, Leliana's survival is justified. We - as the players - are indifferent between the two. 

[Boost32]

This thread is specifically not about this topic. Don't bring it up, please.

My post isnt about Krem or the RP possibilites regarding transexualism, its about how writers are insisting and focusing on things that are irrelevant for the setting and forgeting about the huge flaws of their writing,

[Hiemoth]

My post isnt about Krem or the RP possibilites regarding transexualism, its about how writers are insisting and focusing on things that are irrelevant for the setting and forgeting about the huge flaws of their writing,

 

This makes no sense at all. When you were playing DAI, did you feel like 'Wow, everyone in this game lasting 70-80+ hours just can't shut up about Krem'? Were you constantly involving running in to quests that dealt with anyone's sexual or gender identity? When exploring the Elven ruins, did you run across meditations on ancient Elven views on procreation and the proper way to do it?

 

The reason this continues argument baffles me here is that these kinds of things were such a small, insignificant and completely avoidable part of DAI, yet I keep seeing so many people somehow making claims that they are utterly destroying DAI. It just so, so, so insane.

[Boost32]

This makes no sense at all. When you were playing DAI, did you feel like 'Wow, everyone in this game lasting 70-80+ hours just can't shut up about Krem'? Were you constantly involving running in to quests that dealt with anyone's sexual or gender identity? When exploring the Elven ruins, did you run across meditations on ancient Elven views on procreation and the proper way to do it?
 
The reason this continues argument baffles me here is that these kinds of things were such a small, insignificant and completely avoidable part of DAI, yet I keep seeing so many people somehow making claims that they are utterly destroying DAI. It just so, so, so insane.

Had you read my previous post, you would know I wasnt talking about in game content, but about writer's interviews.
Let me try again so you can understand: DAI have huge flaws in its writing department, instead of aknowledge them and saying they know and will improve on them in the next game, they say things like "the next game will have more transexual content and if you dont like it, you dont need to play the game".
Transexual character should be on the "Nice to have" list, not in the "Must have" list.
The Must have list should be composed of good amtagonists like Loghain and th Arishok, not a joke like Corypheus, should have difficult choices with pros and cons, not rainbows and unicorns choices we had in DAI, and I could go on about the flaws in DAI.

[Andraste_Reborn]

I don't see what one has to do with the other, unless you think including trans characters somehow leads to a lack of well-written antagonists and difficult choices.

 

While DAI certainly has its flaws, I personally don't think the writing was worse than the writing in DAO or DA2.

[BansheeOwnage]

That doesn't work. There are two explanations for the ashes:

 

1. The Maker is real, Andraste is literally blessed and his Bride. In that case, Leliana being alive is literally divine intervention.

2. The Maker is BS, Andraste isn't in any way divine, and there's a magical explanation for their healing power (e.g. there is lyrium in the mountain that grants healing power like Oghren says or - like we now suspect based on DA:I - it was an old even temple like the Temple of Mythal and had some magical properties).

 

The actual ashes are a red herring regardless of what you believe. 

 

One of those two things must be true. And in either case, Leliana's survival is justified. We - as the players - are indifferent between the two. 

I already said it can't be the lyrium though. Lyrium has no precedent for healing. Whether it gave the ashes their power is another thing, but the ashes are what heal Eamon, not lyrium. I don't buy that the room healed her, and I would never say it's "justified". So no, the ashes weren't a red herring.

 

Can you also fight Wynne there? I can't remember.

[BabyPuncher]

I don't see what one has to do with the other, unless you think including trans characters somehow leads to a lack of well-written antagonists and difficult choices.

Putting aside all the problems with you equating 'difficult choices' with better writing...

There are two problems.

The first is that it leaves developers too satisfied. Too convinced they've accomplished something when they haven't. Hence my disgust for Weekes', frankly, very ridiculous comment that Krem is one of the most inspiring things he's seen in gaming. Why should developers even both to attempt good writing if all it takes is a throughly mediocre peripheral character merely existing as transgender or some other minority to be revered as such or even good writing at all?

Clearly this is drivel, which ties in the second, far more serious problem:

Writer incompetence.

This is what writers are literally paid to do. What they are literally paid to understand. They're hired because they're people who understand the moral and personal issues absolutely necessary to make a good story, and to enunciate that understanding in an eloquent and intelligent manner. In theory, obviously. That is their job.

So what does it does about such a person when they can't follow through on simple reasoning in these issues and resort to hypocrisy? It says they're incapable of doing the job I need to do. If a writer lacks the integrity to stand by a simple idea such as, say, 'femininity is a meaningful thing,' how is he going to reason through more difficult issues? How can I trust such a person to competently and elegantly enunciate much more subtle and elusive truths?

I can't, and I don't.

That's the real reason this sort of thing is a very serious concern. Not because it causes problems, but because it's an indication that there are problems beneath the surface. It's the canary in the coal mine.

[Ieldra]

They are making it to much of a big deal.

And it isn't as if players and people on this forum make a big deal of it? I suggest we choose not to make a big deal of it, and then it won't be as much of a big deal and writers can concentrate on making a good story.

 

I'm much more concerned about the possibility that DA will turn into a sequence of morality tales - in a general sense not restricted to one particular issue - with Weekes at the helm.

[BSpud]

Lol. David gonna David.

[Sah291]

My theory is, not only is the architect still alive, the other magisters are probably still out there somewhere too, and they might have some of the other orbs/keys Solas is looking for? We are given a list of them in the new World of Thedas book, and while they might have been just fleshing out the lore, it kinda seems like they are setting up the plot to introduce more about them, and whatever the relationship is between the elven gods and old gods, and the black city.

I noticed at the end of DAI, right after defeating Cory, the Inquisitor says something to Solas about there being more of them. More of what?? I'm not sure if that was supposed to refer to there being more orbs? Or more like Cory? Or maybe both? Anyway it seems to imply whatever Solas is/was planning next has something to do with finding the rest of them.