No I don't want them to go the DA route I want to have an iconic face for the new protag not just some random dude like in DA:I
But I want them to use an unknown person! 
Do really think people go out to buy a game and say "Today I want to buy a game with an iconic face on the cover! That game has Will Smith, I will buy it! Nope, I don't care if it is a game for children, just give it to me dammit." ??
... to better target their already existing demographic to increase their sales?
According to some surveys, women make up about half of PC gamers and RPG gamers, so marketing to that demographic makes sense.
Might explain this a bit then:
Nearly 50 / 50 on PC.
... to better target their already existing demographic to increase their sales?
According to some surveys, women make up about half of PC gamers and RPG gamers, so marketing to that demographic makes sense.
Uhh, those figures include Facebook games. Women and girls are the primary market for Facebook games. Unless ME4 is a Facebook game I don't see why that article or it's data are relevant. Just look at Mass Effect's data. Not even 20% of the Shepards played are female. That includes male players playing FemShep. What does that tell you?
Might explain this a bit then:
Nearly 50 / 50 on PC.
Guest_postlapsarian2_*
Do we know the number of female players who play male inquisitors? Because I know quite a few who did and a few who did for Dorian too. I mean these people could be lying, but as part of his fandom I counted 108 fangirls a few months back who actively play as male inquisitors and are obsessed with Dorian doing all sorts of fan stuff.
Uhh, those figures include Facebook games. Women and girls are the primary market for Facebook games. Unless ME4 is a Facebook game I don't see why that article or it's data are relevant. Just look at Mass Effect's data. Not even 20% of the Shepards played are female. That includes male players playing FemShep. What does that tell you?
The PC figures do include Facebook and casual games... but correct me if I'm wrong, but not many casual / Facebook games are RPGs, where women make up about 50 % of the market. So, if your game is an RPG and its player base is significantly under 50% female, then you're not marketing properly and reaching the full potential of that demographic (i.e., you're making less money than you could).
So, if the assume that the number of female players who play Mass Effect is under 20% (because women always play as women and no straight woman would ever want to ogle Mark Vanderloo's face, obviously...), then ME, as an RPG, is seriously under-performing among the RPG-playing female demographic, and this is something they probably should focus on in their marketing.
Just a thought.
Do we know the number of female players who play male inquisitors? Because I know quite a few who did and a few who did for Dorian too.
We'll also have to find out the number of males that like to play females. I see a lot of them that really like to create cute, elvish women.
Guest_postlapsarian2_*
We'll also have to find out the number of males that like to play females. I see a lot of them that really like to create cute, elvish women.
Too bad there is not much of a difference between cute, elvish women. and the elvish men in DAI. Those arms and shoulders are atrocious.
Do we know the number of female players who play male inquisitors? Because I know quite a few who did and a few who did for Dorian too.
Trying to guess the number of male/female playing a RPG based on how many male/female characters are created is stupid, the majority just pick what work for them based on a lots of factors (voice acting, storyline, appearance, etc).
I play both female and male characters. I usually prefer male in 3d games because female characters tend to have hyper-sexualized animations or just dreadful proportions (aka the Asian design of big boobs and super small arms/legs...it's like some game developers have never seen a woman in their entire life or something).
You might want to get your eyes checked. It's clearly more like 60/40. And I've made more female Inquisitors than male so that number doesn't reflect the number of female players in relation to males.
Hence 'nearly'. Just like the figures for broshep don't include women playing as men.
Point is, 40% is a lot. It makes no sense to not represent women in the game marketing.
The PC figures do include Facebook and casual games... but correct me if I'm wrong, but not many casual / Facebook games are RPGs, where women make up about 50 % of the market. So, if your game is an RPG and its player base is significantly under 50% female, then you're not marketing properly and reaching the full potential of that demographic (i.e., you're making less money than you could).
So, if the assume that the number of female players who play Mass Effect is under 20% (because women always play as women and no straight woman would ever want to ogle Mark Vanderloo's face, obviously...), then ME, as an RPG, is seriously under-performing among the RPG-playing female demographic, and this is something they probably should focus on in their marketing.
Just a thought.
Hence 'nearly'. Just like the figures for broshep don't include women playing as men.
Point is, 40% is a lot. It makes no sense to not represent women in the game marketing.
Hence 'nearly'. Just like the figures for broshep don't include women playing as men.
Point is, 40% is a lot. It makes no sense to not represent women in the game marketing.
Put both a male and a female in the marketing, or put neither of them, or even better yet - put an anonymous person. Problem solved! Phew, that was really hard, wasn't it? Alright mods, please close the thread because the problem has been solved! Or do the people want to start arguing again from scratch for the 100th time?
Guest_postlapsarian2_*
Trying to guess the number of male/female playing a RPG based on how many male/female characters are created is stupid, the majority just pick what work for them based on a lots of factors (voice acting, storyline, appearance, etc).
I play both female and male characters. I usually prefer male in 3d games because female characters tend to have hyper-sexualized animations or just dreadful proportions (aka the Asian design of big boobs and super small arms/legs...it's like some game developers have never seen a woman in their entire life or something).
Yet here we see arguments over it!
See above. Replacing John McClane with Janice McClane would not have made Die Hard into a feminist war call and flipped the demographic, it just would have flopped because men are the action movie demographic* and women aren't so stupid that a woman's face is enough to get them to buy things they otherwise would not.
*and let's face it, women don't come off as believable in action roles most of the time because they are generally physically weaker and don't have the bravado men do.
Mass Effect is an established franchise and doesn't need a poster boy for marketing purposes. Just show the PC in armor and concentrate on the companions, ships, the Mako and #Space in trailers.
Loads of those Facebook games are categorized as RPGs. And your argument here is self-defeating. Women don't play Mass Effect-style games in the same numbers as men because they're not marketed to. So what happens when the marketing shifts to attract them? Fewer men play the games because the games are not marketed at them, cannibalizing sales.
Now me personally, I don't think women are so stupid that they're only interested in things if they have a woman's face plastered on them or that their interests in entertainment dramatically change if you replace male characters with female ones.
See above. Replacing John McClane with Janice McClane would not have made Die Hard into a feminist war call and flipped the demographic, it just would have flopped because men are the action movie demographic* and women aren't so stupid that a woman's face is enough to get them to buy things they otherwise would not.
*and let's face it, women don't come off as believable in action roles most of the time because they are generally physically weaker and don't have the bravado men do.
So, by your logic, men are stupid enough that they won't play a game just because it doesn't have a man's face plastered on it?
As for women in action rolls, I'll be sure to mention that to Sigourney Weaver, Charlize Theron, Scarlett Johansson, Zoe Saldana, Keira Knightly, Natalie Portman, Lucy Lawless, Milla Jovovich and a bunch of others.
Guest_postlapsarian2_*
So, by your logic, men are stupid enough that they won't play a game just because it doesn't have a man's face plastered on it?
As for women in action rolls, I'll be sure to mention that to Sigourney Weaver, Charlize Theron, Scarlett Johansson, Zoe Saldana, Keira Knightly, Natalie Portman, Lucy Lawless, Milla Jovovich and a bunch of others.
True. And Inb4 someone says fantasy is not an accurate portrayal of women's physical strength, yes, and ME is a fantasy game! Aren't the soldiers in ME supposed to have genetic augments? I may be wrong!
So, by your logic, men are stupid enough that they won't play a game just because it doesn't have a man's face plastered on it?
As for women in action rolls, I'll be sure to mention that to Sigourney Weaver, Charlize Theron, Scarlett Johansson, Zoe Saldana, Keira Knightly, Natalie Portman, Lucy Lawless, Milla Jovovich and a bunch of others.
So, by your logic, men are stupid enough that they won't play a game just because it doesn't have a man's face plastered on it?
That'll be true if must of us even cared about who's in the poster.
What do you think we think when we go outside to buy a game or see a movie?
"Uh, Alien: Isolation has a female on the cover. I won't buy it even if it is a great game. Bye!"
"Oh hey, that movie has a white dude on the center of the art. I'll see it right now!"
"Oblivion has no one the cover! Wont buy it."
"All the Mass Effect 3s in this Gamestop have the femshep version of the cover? Bye bye!"
"I will go to see a movie today, but it must have a man in the promotion, and he must be white."
"I wont buy Fallout 3 or New Vegas unless I am 100% sure that the person inside that unisex armor is a white male!"
"The Witcher? Never heard of it, but it must be good because there is a white dude in the cover."
"I guess Gamestop must be having a really hard time selling these games with their generic covers. The lack of a white male in the cover must really offend customers and make them leave!"
"There is BOTH a female and a male in the cover? No purchase unless it only has a male!"
Other than dudebros, KKKs, upper class southern people who still go everywhere in suits with ties, conservative republicans, ISIS and Nazi remnants, who the hell goes out like that nowadays?
Loads of those Facebook games are categorized as RPGs.
And your argument here is self-defeating. Women don't play Mass Effect-style games in the same numbers as men because they're not marketed to. So what happens when the marketing shifts to attract them? Fewer men play the games because the games are not marketed at them, cannibalizing sales.
Men didn't stop shaving just because razor makers started to target the female demographic as well. Also, why do you assume that the shift would mean that there would be no male-targeted advertising at all? Or do you assume that the RPG playing men are afraid of the cooties, and will jump ship immediately after women make up more than 25% of the players?
Now me personally, I don't think women are so stupid that they're only interested in things if they have a woman's face plastered on them or that their interests in entertainment dramatically change if you replace male characters with female ones.
But, by your earlier statements... men are?
Wow, the Tomb Raider fandom must be the largest exclusively female fandom in the world.
*and let's face it, women don't come off as believable in action roles most of the time because they are generally physically weaker and don't have the bravado men do.
Yeah. Women are weak and can't do anything physically taxing or defend themselves at all.
Most of those actresses are completely unconvincing in actiony, ass-kicker roles. Aside from highly stylized things like Aeon Flux, Guardians of the Galaxy and Resident Evil none of them have convincingly played ass-kickers. Ripley wasn't out there murdering aliens like it was her job, she was a survivor who stepped up when she had to to get it done, like using a mech suit to fight the Queen. Imperator Furiosa wasn't kicking any War Boys' ****s in like a freakin' superhero, she was out-driving them and shooting them from a distance. Black Widow isn't taking on Ultron or one of those huge flying aliens like the Hulk because she's not capable of that, so she takes out the grunts.
Lagertha from Vikings and Brienne of Tarth from Game of Thrones would be my picks for female characters that kick ass and are convincing. In both cases, besides the actors playing them being talented, it boils down to excellent casting. They chose women for the roles who look the part, rather than going for actresses who look like models. Katheryn Winnick (Lagertha) is beautiful, but she also doesn't look like a woman who when she's out to dinner only orders a salad.
Such as? (Also, which those?) The only one that pops into mind that could be categorized as an RPG is Farmville, but then again, I'm not all that familiar with Facebook games in general, so I could be wrong.[/quote]
http://i.imgur.com/8wx2wDJ.jpg
Men didn't stop shaving just because razor makers started to target the female demographic as well. Also, why do you assume that the shift would mean that there would be no male-targeted advertising at all? Or do you assume that the RPG playing men are afraid of the cooties, and will jump ship immediately after women make up more than 25% of the players?
They don't market men's razors to women, they market women's razors to women. Different brands, different designs, different marketing.
But, by your earlier statements... men are?
Yes.
Wow, the Tomb Raider fandom must be the largest exclusively female fandom in the world.
See above. Men are stupid. Tomb Raider sold because of big breasts.
Yeah. Women are weak and can't do anything physically taxing or defend themselves at all.
Show me where I said every woman ever is weak and timid. And you do realize that for every video you post I could post ten showing women being physically overpowered or generally meek, right?
Most of the women in movies and TV that are supposed to be badass are not convincing because they look like skinny models with no muscle and no ferocity. The woman playing Wonder Woman in the upcoming DC movies has gotten "pumped up" to the point of looking like a woman who does yoga twice a week. This is a decision made to appeal to stupid men, who require every woman on screen to look like a model.[/quote]
[/quote][/quote]
Yes. 99% of the time. Men want power fantasies. If they can imagine themselves in the role of an action god then they will try it.
Speak for yourself. I have actually grown up past the age of 13 (apologies to all the 13 year olds out there).
Speak for yourself. I have actually grown up past the age of 13 (apologies to all the 13 year olds out there).
(Straight) Men want male-centric power fantasies all the time? Man, that's going to be a surprise to my husband when he gets up. He told me yesterday that he thinks the next Wolfenstein game should have a gender choice. I've lost count how many times he's replayed the current version of the games.
He's told me that he's less likely to buy a game with some stereotypical "male hero," or games like the DoA series, because he's sick of being treated like that's all straight men want. He checks reviews carefully before he buys, especially if it's a game with the stereotypical male appearance slapped on the front. If there is a female protagonist, or someone else outside of the current accepted norm, then he'll still do research, but he's more likely to be open minded.
We've also talked about the ME series in relation to marketing. We were completely on the outside. I wasn't on the forums, and I wasn't reading as much gaming news as I do now. ME2 didn't have nearly the marketing blitz that ME3 did, so it wasn't on our radar. We went into Gamestop, right after ME3 came out. To our eyes, we see what looked like yet another Halo clone, complete with a grizzled space marine. Looking almost exactly the same as every male protagonist in several games in the store.
None of the posters, or the rest advertising suggested that you could even play a female character. It sure didn't help that coupons for Mountain Dew, Red Bull and Doritos were set up as a promotion in that Gamestop. 
I thought that BioWare had gone for the quick money grab of making a shooter with a fixed protagonist. The commercials never showed it was a RPG, much less one that let you choose your gender. I didn't even know until 2012 that it was a RPG, had LGB romance options, and had a gender choice. My friends on the ToR forums told me about it. Otherwise, why should I have cared? The advertising certainly failed on that front.
Yes, had I known that the ME series had a gender choice sooner, it would have affected my purchase. I would have been less likely to treat it as a space marine clone, and instead a game on more of it's own merits. A big reason is because much pretty all of those "Space Marine" shooters don't offer a gender choice or have a female lead character (outside of a few characters like Samus,) especially back about 3 years ago. Just that knowledge would have gotten me to at least try ME1 a lot sooner than I did.
Now, with all that said, I can see the value in more ambiguous marketing. It worked well for Inquisition, and it worked well for NWN. I think focusing on the armor and the symbolism of the character, rather than the looks, is the safest and least controversial way to go.
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