569 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

Neither.

 

Let the Mako market the game 

 

I like this human. He understands. 

[CrazyCatDude]

You seem like an honest person.

I wish I could give you better news.

 

Oh, I've already accepted that we're going to get Shepaloo 2.0 for the cover.  It's inevitable.  I get that.  Doesn't mean that I'm going to give up hope that things will change.  If not with this game, than maybe with the third Mass Effect Trilogy.

I mean, if I'm seeing what I think I'm seeing in 'The Force Awakens' trailer, I'm pretty sure we're starting to see *some* progress.

[azarhal]

Actually, I think a soldier in N7 armor where you can't tell the gender would be the 2nd best option next to just having two cover box arts.

 

The only thing needed on the box is either the Tempest or the Mako or both. We don't need any of the characters.

 

Any plot related symbol would also work if they want to follow in Bethesda's footsteps...

[Pasquale1234]

I've never quite understood why they don't spend a few seconds of a trailer or a little space on the box showing different custom characters attainable with the CC. That's a fairly popular feature for a lot of folks, and really differentiates Bioware products from those with fixed protags.

[Arcian]

[pdusen]

This is a thread dedicated to how people want to see the game marketed...

 

Which... is on this forum. And therefore not at all at odds with what I was saying?

 

I don't get your point.

[Kroitz]

A Female Krogan has a flat head.

 

My oppressive friend, that in fact is a proud transgender krogan ladysir by the name of Korgan Steve.

[CrazyCatDude]

Why would Jack and Cassandra be queer? I mean, I wouldn't mind -- especially in Jack's case, as I think it'd have made her more popular (and since I'm a Jackmancer myself, I want more content) --  but if they're straight, they're straight. Cassandra actually reminds me of my mom. No bullshit. And Jack reminds me of people I grew up with. Abrasive punk rock girls aren't necessarily queer.

 

Jack specifically mentions having had a female lover in the past.  Cassandra, if you continue to flirt with her as a female inquisitor, doesn't reject you because of lack of interest.  She rejects you because society would disapprove.  Jack specifically comes across as someone who has been burned by a female lover in the past, and as a result refuses to become involved with a woman again.  Cassandra comes across as a closeted bisexual.  I have friends who could give you a pretty long list of behaviors from both characters that they would normally read as queer, but for me, those are enough to make the argument.  Personally, I could also argue that Tali's dialog about the linking of suits comes off as flirtatious, whether it's delivered to BroShep, or FemShep, but I didn't include her in the list because it's less explicit than it is in the cases of Cassandra and Jack.

And no, I'm not assuming every character is queer.  Vivian, for example, I read as pretty much completely straight.  Avaline, Cullen, Chakwas, Zaeed, Anderson, Alistair, Oghren, Sebastian, Varric, Blackwall, Solas, Jacob, Javik and Kasumi, likewise.

[canarius]

Considering there were %82 male Shepards vs %18 female Shepards, it would be a very stupid marketing decision to not market the male character.

[Majestic Jazz]

Oh, I've already accepted that we're going to get Shepaloo 2.0 for the cover. It's inevitable. I get that. Doesn't mean that I'm going to give up hope that things will change. If not with this game, than maybe with the third Mass Effect Trilogy.

I mean, if I'm seeing what I think I'm seeing in 'The Force Awakens' trailer, I'm pretty sure we're starting to see *some* progress.

Imagine the uproar if Rey and Finn end up being romantic partners like Anakin and Padme or Han and Leia.

[aMytallica]

I know it doesn't matter much to some, perhaps because for them the marketing is actually targeted to them, but I think marketing matters. As a female who likes to play as a female, I like to know if that option exists. Why ignore that? ME3 marketing was a step up, DAI was even better. It's an RPG about choice, if that option is there why not market it as such? 

[General TSAR]

More white males ftw, SJWs gonna hate. 

.........

Just have Mass Effect 4 with Andromeda below it or have PC wearing gender neutral armor doing a thing. 

Considering there were %82 male Shepards vs %18 female Shepards, it would be a very stupid marketing decision to not market the male character.

That is also true.

 

Capitalize on the greatest return on your investment.  

Admittedly, there have been a few missteps with their presentation of LGBT characters, or characters who pretty much any member of the LGBT community is going to read as queer, who are straight only romance options in the game *cough*Cassandra*

Say what?

 

Jack, sure yeah I guess, but Cassandra? 

[CrazyCatDude]

There's been a lot of debate on what Jack meant... I can see it work, but some people have made some good points that that's not exactly what she says. But it worked for Kaidan, so it'd work here. I'd be down with it, simply because it made Kaidan (and Liara earlier) a little more popular.

 

 

I don't think any behavior is "queer" though. People are complicated. This kind of thinking isn't helping perceptions of different sorts of women out there either (considering we're talking about various demographics, I'm gonna mention this). I know you mean well, but just saying. I'm attracted to them and I'm straight. They're both just cool women to me in general.

 

She's pretty clear.  "This girl Minara and her boyfriend," "Helped me into *their* bed."  That's pretty cut and dried.

As for "queer" behavior, I'm not using the terminology in any sort of derogatory fashion.  I personally prefer to apply the term queer to myself, because it's a simply, broad term that indicates that I'm not heterosexual, and that I may or may not fit other points within the range covered by the LGBT alphabet soup.  It saves me a LOT of explaining, and I can define or not define more specifically later based on my comfort level with the person I'm speaking with.

 

That said, there are behaviors that will trip a person's gayday.  Especially in fiction, where LGBT characters had to be snuck in around the margins for decades.  Google "Queer Coding" and you'll very likely find a ton of information.  But, simply put, both Cassandra and Jack both exhibit a host of traits that have been used to indicate a character is a lesbian in fiction without actually specifically stating it, in addition to the fact that Jack *does* specifically reference her involvement with a woman, and Cassandra's only stated objection to pursuing a relationship with a female inquisitor is social disapproval.

 

Queer coding is also one of the reasons why Kaidan so easily fits as a same sex love interest for BroShep.  If you're at all familiar with the queer coding tropes, Kaidan's interactions with Shepard in Mass Effect 1 come off very much as romantic attraction.  I'm fairly sure a lot of people will say otherwise, but if you look at what happened with the ending of The Legend of Korra, where a lot of the straight viewers were completely taken off guard that Korra and Asami ended up together, despite the fact that the writers had been specifically developing the relationship over the course of three seasons with that goal in mind, while the LGBT viewers reaction was more "OMG! They actually did that on a kid's show!" because we all really expected Korra to be thrown back together with her ex-boyfriend in the last couple of episodes, you'll see what I mean.

[CrazyCatDude]

Considering there were %82 male Shepards vs %18 female Shepards, it would be a very stupid marketing decision to not market the male character.

 

Yeah.  Tomb Raider would have probably done a lot better if they'd put a dude on the cover, too.

Seriously, new series set in the same universe, so these numbers are not really relevant.

[CrazyCatDude]

Imagine the uproar if Rey and Finn end up being romantic partners like Anakin and Padme or Han and Leia.

 

I imagine a lot of the same people who were griping about the idea of a black stormtrooper would pitch a hissy fit, but I'm pretty much expecting that to be the direction they go.  Finn has, so far been a far larger presence in the marketing than Poe.  Finn's the one who was in the cover shoot for Vanity Fair.  And we can be reasonably sure that they aren't brother and sister.  At this point, I'd actually be surprised if they *didn't* end up an item.  Unless they decide to stick with the stupid "Love is forbidden to Jedi" thing.  If they do, I hope the Sith win.

[MissMayhem96]

I preferred the box cover for DA:I with an androgynous figure from behind, maybe ME4 could have a person with gender neutral armor and opaque visor and for the trailers I would like to see the one main trailer for each gender then in game play trailers they could mix it up with both and include PoC.

[CrazyCatDude]

It's not clear. A lot of people experiment or have a menage-a-trois. Yet they identify as straight. And it doesn't say how she slept with them (both, or just with the guy). I think it can work either way, but it's not "clear". It needs more dialogue to call it clear. And to think she's turned off on this kind of relationship just for that is not a good start either. Jack has been screwed over by all kinds of people --- so why single out lesbians?

 

As for "queer" behavior, I think you're just relying on stereotypes as the very people you rail against. Like when some overcompensating dude calls a certain woman "butch" or an effiminate guy is called gay. They're relying on the superficial, and your comment about tropes is playing into it.

 

It's also why I took issue with you on "generic white males" too. It's just more stereotyping and losing sight of the individuals.

 

Anyways, food for thought.. I don't know if you're a proud person or willing to actually consider this, so I'm gonna throw this out here. I'm a minority myself, and I don't like how your presenting some issues in this thread (as far as racial stuff goes especially). It's zealous.

 

I'll look up queer coding, just because I'm asking you to hear me out too. That said, I don't know if you can tell, but I'm pushing 40. I have plenty of life experience and people around me to know that gays/lesbians don't behave a certain way.

 

 

edit: It sounds like "queer coding" started as a bad thing. Like subliminal suggestions to make audiences see "negative" traits... make them subtly "gay", so you know who the "villain" is. 

 

 

Actually, given that she specifically names the woman, but not the man, I would guess that she was more emotionally invested in the woman.  Given that the woman is, to the best of my recollection, the only ex she specifically mentions by name, based on the contextual clues, I assumed the woman was the first, and quite probably only person Jack had ever fallen in love with, or come close to falling in love with.  But I still don't see how there's any ambiguity in the statement.  Jack had a female lover in the past.  Someone she trusted, who betrayed her.

 

With regards to the comment about Stereotypes, I write a lot of fiction, and in fiction, you often make use of stereotypes as a short hand.  You use them as a way to communicate to readers certain information about characters.  A perfect example of this is Captain Jack Harkness in Torchwood.  He's played with an American accent.  Most people would think that's odd, because the show is British, until you understand that there's a stereotype in Britain that Americans are untrustworthy, and when the character was created, and through the run of Torchwood, the writers *wanted* the audience to perceive him as untrustworthy.  So, they used a stereotype to communicate that information.

I'm not saying it's the best habit for writers to get into, but I've used it sometimes, because it works.  Because it's something that thousands of years of recorded fiction has been doing.  And if you do it right, there's not anything wrong with it, because stereotypes are not always harmful, and not always inaccurate.  To give an example, there's a stereotype that people in the military use a lot of harsh language.  Having spent a good deal of time around people in the military, I can tell you, this is, in fact, quite true.  People in the military tend to curse like sailors.  People in the south will call you Darling or Sweetie.  Florida is full of old people, especially during the summer.  The trick is just not to use stereotypes in ways that are offensive or bigoted.

When I talk about Cassandra and Jack coming across as queer characters, what I am saying is that they exhibit characteristics that have been used by fiction writers for decades to subtly indicate that a female character was gay.  This goes back to "coding" which I mentioned.  the LGBT audience has spent so long looking for ourselves within sub-textual clues, that when we see those clues we take it pretty much as writ that the character is gay, or bisexual, or whatever.

 

With regards to the comments on "Generic white guys", I stand by what I said.  There are a large number of protagonists who resemble each other so closely, that you could literally take a character model from one game, swap it with the character model from another game, and most players probably wouldn't even notice.  The back stories for a lot of these characters could be lifted from any random action movie.  Sure, you do get some that are genuinely unique, but most aren't.  There's a sameness to the characters, like they're all written by the same guy and played by the same actor.

I'm not saying my perception is infallible, because it's just that.  My perception.  I'm also not saying that there's anything wrong with having a white male protagonist.  If you wanted to give me ten seasons of Chris Evans playing Captain America, I'd be there every week with bells on, gobbling it up.  Same with Robert Downey Jr. playing Iron Man, or Charlie Cox playing Daredevil, or Steven Amnell playing the Arrow.

 

Wanting some variety doesn't mean I want to get rid of what's already there.  You can keep Nathan Drake.  You can Solid Snake.  You can keep Max Payne, and Gordon Freeman.  But I given a choice, I honestly prefer female characters.  Laura Croft, Chell, Jane Shepard, Marian Hawke, Lady Trevelyan, Warden Tabris.

[Eshaye]

By that logic, one would think that Sheploo's the only option in Mass Effect.

It'd be a vague figure, just like Inquisition's cover:


 

..................snip

 

Anyway, when it comes to artwork, I do prefer the idea of a reversible design. But if they went neutral like DA:I, I dig that concept art. 

 

I freaking LOVE that cover art and think it's just perfect. You can't tell what gender or race, or whatever. For a game with a custom character it says you're the hero and you are who you want to be. 

 

I don't understand the resignation that ME4 will have a Sheploo 2.0 ? Bioware has made a conscious effort to address the concerns of the community so far in their marketing of both ME3 and DAI, and have learned even in between ME3 and DAI. The whole FemShep redo was unnecessary and kind of a catastrophe in the end and hopefully from now on instead of trying to balance gender they will just do gender neutral marketing.

 

I thought what was with DAI was many steps in the right direction and can continue improving. 

[Steppenwolf]

I kind of hope the new "Shepard" is a total dudebro idiot just to get the entitled, annoying SJWs angry. Burly, gelled hair, tribal tattoos, homophobic, misogynistic and aggressive. Just for fun.

[von uber]

I kind of hope the new "Shepard" is a total dudebro idiot just to get the entitled, annoying SJWs angry. Burly, gelled hair, tribal tattoos, homophobic, misogynistic and aggressive. Just for fun.

Well then you are an idiot.