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Marketing The Next Mass Effect -- Male or Female?


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#126
CrazyCatDude

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I can appreciate you're drawing on a literary tradition. And I understand using shorthand. I do it myself on some things.... but it gets me in trouble with communication too. 

 

I think if we're going to take race (and other issues) more seriously though, shorthand isn't going to cut it. It's part of the problem.

 

That's so funny about Harkness. I never knew that. Kind of like British used to be in the States (like Star Wars).

 

As for Jack, I don't know what was stopping them if they really wanted her that way. The same writer also wrote Samara, and she's bi. Like I said earlier, I'd have no problem with it and even see benefits for her popularity... but I'll just accept that they had their reasons. It's not my character. I don't think there is some particular coding there though. A lot of people can see themselves in Jack. I can myself. The actress who played her goes on about this too, but she's got a husband herself (from what I can tell, she's a little older than me, but pretty much grew up around punks like I did). On the plus side, this is a good thing... if all kinds of people recognize themselves in an estranged character. That's progress.

 

The other part of it is, of course, we all bring our own baggage into any story we read.  Straight people, presented with pretty much any character, will assume straight until proven otherwise.  (Some idiots will assume straight even *after* proven otherwise, but that's a whole different problem).  People in the LGBT community will generally look harder, and pick up on subtle behaviors that people outside the community miss.  Certain word choices, playing the pronoun game.  Using the word "spouse" in place of wife or husband (which is kind of like the pronoun game, advanced level).  Sometimes, the behaviors are stereotypical, yes.  Sometimes not.  Sometimes we pick up on a behavior so minor, we couldn't even tell you later why we're reading a character the way we are, without going back and reviewing the media in question.  Some people will see it because they want to, even when it's not actually there, (contrary wise, some people will deny it even when it's so blatant it might as well be wearing a neon sign).

 

For race, the issue is a bit different.  Race is, in general, something that's a lot less subtle.  You don't have to guess, at least in visual media, if a character is black, or Chinese, or Indian or Latino based on behavioral queues.  It's pretty much just out there, though even then, there are exceptions.

 

Which goes back to why people in the LGBT community *are* so attuned to behavioral queues.  Because there aren't usually blatant visual queues, 99% of the time.

As for why the decision was made not to include any same sex romances in ME2, outside of Kelly/Femshep (which I guess kinda counts) and the LotSB continuation of FemShep/Liara, I doubt we'll ever get a straight answer.  I could speculate on it a lot, and I can tell you there was a *lot* of frustration about the decision, just like there was a lot of frustration over the decision to not let FemShep romance Ashley, or BroShep romance Kaidan in the first game, even though the dialog was apparently recorded.  At this point, it honestly doesn't matter.  The decisions are 5 to 8 years in the past, and Bioware did pretty well by us in ME3 and in DAI.

As for the shorthand, I don't think it will ever go away completely.  I think as a writer, you have to be extremely careful how you use it, but it's too useful a tool to completely give up.



#127
Han Yolo

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I couldn't care less about the cover as long as they model the default female after a real person. I'll die happily if I don't ever have to see that comic frog again. 


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#128
Guest_postlapsarian2_*

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I kind of hope the new "Shepard" is a total dudebro idiot just to get the entitled, annoying SJWs angry. Burly, gelled hair, tribal tattoos, homophobic, misogynistic and aggressive. Just for fun.

I always see this half-assed approach. This is such a punk ass statement. Notice the- I want an anti-SJW character to ****** off tumblrite SJWs- but forgets to include racist in the statement. "homophobic, misogynistic and aggressive". 

 

Why stop at that? Go for it and add that you want a racist character too. That will really show those- oh no, not again... a straight, white, male hero on cover of the game for the millionth time- SJWs who would like to see a female or person of color. The butthurt will be astronomical. After all the race of the hero on the box cover is being argued multiple times here too. Or are you afraid to go there? Why just ostracize  lgbt and female customers? How about saying you would like to see a homophobic, misogynistic, racist "Shepard" dudebro to get entitled, annoying SJWs angry? Let's wonder how that marketing strategy will go for BioWare.

 

                                                      tumblr_mbia5oYZ8c1rstfoqo1_500.gif

 

On topic: It really doesn't matter to me what is on the cover. What matters is what is in the trailer (which people will see online and on TV) and ultimately in the game. IMO a reversible cover is the best bet. As for game trailers, i'd rather there not be two protagonist-centric trailers with one for the male protagonist and one for the female. Instead i'd like to see a mishmash of the protagonist as male and female in iconic armor in one trailer.



#129
Han Yolo

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I kind of hope the new "Shepard" is a total dudebro idiot just to get the entitled, annoying SJWs angry. Burly, gelled hair, tribal tattoos, homophobic, misogynistic and aggressive. Just for fun.

 

Ya know, I like your style. I hope they make every single man hit on the PC just so all those entitled, annoying dudebros get angry. This will be so fun to watch, better than the game itself. 


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#130
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I just think dudebros suck because of the aesthetic. It's just not cool. They have no charm.

 

 

Even if you are going to be offensive, there's gotta be something better to represent the oppressive "patriarchy". Grouchy Old Farts maybe. Whether they're white (Clint Eastwood). Or black (like those guys in the barbershop in Coming to America). Or maybe an old racist Asian guy...."You all look same!" Lets not forget old Jewish guys too (Jerry Stiller).

 

 

And I bet anything if you had Jerry Stiller as a sci-fi protagonist, it'd be a hit.



#131
Guest_postlapsarian2_*

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I just think dudebros suck because of the aesthetic. It's just not cool. They have no charm.

 

 

Even if you are going to be offensive, there's gotta be something better to represent the oppressive "patriarchy". Grouchy Old Farts maybe. Whether they're white (Clint Eastwood). Or black (like those guys in the barbershop in Coming to America). Or maybe an old racist Asian guy...."You all look same!" Lets not forget old Jewish guys too (Jerry Stiller).

 

 

And I bet anything if you had Jerry Stiller as a sci-fi protagonist, it'd be a hit.

The offensive dudebro, protagonist especially, is suggested because it would be an extension of how they feel about other groups. Grouchy old farts would be their parents. The argument in favor of the offensive protagonist is usually to lol at SJWs or to increase roleplaying opportunities.

 

Racist Asian guy, nah! Well, maybe...?

 



#132
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Racist Asian guy, nah! Well, maybe...?

 

 

lol... I've accused people of the very thing.



#133
Golden_Persona

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I do feel its a shame that not even 20% of players played as FemShep, because I can't picture Shepard as anything but her. Until I forced myself to play as BroShep I forgot he was even an option, and it took a while to get used to him. I'd be more concerned about it if EA used it as an excuse to drop FemShep, but social justice warriors wouldn't allow it. As much as I hate those backwards, hypocritical pricks, they do have their uses mwahahahah

 

Adam Levine put it best when he had to justify marketing Bioshock Infinite with a gruffy Booker with a gun on an American flag backdrop. He stated that the people who are angry about a lack of Elizabeth advertisement clearly know she exists, has a main role and are interested in her, and thus will buy the game anyway. The cover was created with the average customer who has never played a Bioshock game and doesn't know anything about it, but is looking for a game in mind. While it can be seen as sad that your average sap customer gravitates towards a cover that screams overcompensation, he's 100% correct.



#134
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I only bought Bioshock because System Shock was one of my old favorites when I used to play more PC games. I could care less about the advertising there either. The "Shock" name was the only advertising I needed. Same with X-Com or Thief. I bet I'm not alone either... even if people are younger than me, gamers tend to dive in back catalogs and ask around about classics. So they're familiar with the X-Coms and the Planescapes and System Shocks themselves.

 

What you're left with for advertising is the really, really average buyer... the random at Best Buy or Wal-Mart.

 

edit: Err... that makes it sound like a bad thing. We're all randoms at any given time. I enjoy browsing stores myself. The chances of not being familiar with a studio or a sequel are less though.



#135
Absafraginlootly

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The only reason I ever played mass effect was because I played dragon age first which revealed to me you could play and create your own female character in it. Nothing about the posters, game covers or any other mass effect media I saw when glancing about games showed me this so I never looked deeper.

 

So when people hold up the low numbers of complete femsheps as a reason not to use female protagonists in future marketing, I just think of all the people like me out there who never bought the game because they didn't know she existed, because they didn't know you could create your own character, because of that advertising.

 

I see these numbers as more reason to show you can be female, you can make your own character.

 

Personally I'd like a trailer that shows multiple versions of the protagonist. Showcase the thing their game provides that other games don't, advertise to all of their potential customers not just to some of them. 


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#136
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I'm all for them showcasing the FemCharacter. Even exclusively at the expense of the male. I really want to see this put to the test.... for science.  B)  But I don't think it'll change the basic demographics of this type of game.

 

I'll happily eat crow if the statistics blow the old ones away though.

 

 

This is not a knock on female characters btw. It's a knock on the value of advertising. 



#137
KaiserShep

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This is not a knock on female characters btw. It's a knock on the value of advertising.

 

don-draper-pissed-off.jpg



#138
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don-draper-pissed-off.jpg

Damm I miss this show



#139
Steppenwolf

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Ya know, I like your style. I hope they make every single man hit on the PC just so all those entitled, annoying dudebros get angry. This will be so fun to watch, better than the game itself.


I would absolutely support that. Make it like Anders in DA2 where the gay guys get pissy no matter how you turn them down, but make sure EVERY gay man in the entire game is constantly hitting on the PC while being absurd stereotypes of gay men.
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#140
von uber

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The DA:I split (on pc at least) shows a much more even split between male / female characters.

#141
Iakus

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Another option.

 

marketing like this:

 


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#142
Altair_ShepardN7

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I would absolutely support that. Make it like Anders in DA2 where the gay guys get pissy no matter how you turn them down, but make sure EVERY gay man in the entire game is constantly hitting on the PC while being absurd stereotypes of gay men.

Ya know, I like your style. I hope they make something like that, I can already see all the annoying SJWs getting angry. It would be awesome if you could turn them down in the most renegade and/or sarcastic way possible. It will be so fun to watch, better than the game itself! 


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#143
von uber

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You do know using the term SJW just diminishes your argument (such as it is)?
Am I a 'sjw' because I want a better future for my daughter? If so then your statement is patently absurd and idiotic.
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#144
Guanxii

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The uniatiated uninformed who doesn't know about character creation would assume that the protag

#145
Guanxii

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The uniatiated uninformed masses who wouldn't know about character creation options would assume that the lead character is female which would almost certainly be a turn off for many. How many females will be watching E3.... Probably < 10% of viewership and attendees. It's not worth the risk of alienating a largely male audience. of course there could be alternate versions of trailers like before but only hardcore fans will ever see them in all likelihood.

#146
Guest_postlapsarian2_*

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Ya know, I like your style. I hope they make something like that, I can already see all the annoying SJWs getting angry. It would be awesome if you could turn them down in the most renegade and/or sarcastic way possible. It will be so fun to watch, better than the game itself! 

Oh I got one...I got one. Let Bioware make a really sexy blonde, blue eyed babe who reveals she is biologically male after your character has sex with her. Oh yes, yes this will be awesome. ;)  Let's hope BioWare is listening to our great ideas. I'd buy two copies of the game and a compilation of the fan reactions. Glorious!



#147
CrazyCatDude

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The uniatiated uninformed masses who wouldn't know about character creation options would assume that the lead character is female which would almost certainly be a turn off for many. How many females will be watching E3.... Probably < 10% of viewership and attendees. It's not worth the risk of alienating a largely male audience. of course there could be alternate versions of trailers like before but only hardcore fans will ever see them in all likelihood.

 

Except, statistically speaking, something like 48% of gamers are female, so your argument kind of falls flat.  Not sure *why* the "largely male audience" myth is so persistent, given how many times it's debunked.


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#148
N7Jamaican

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I wonder if there will be any differences to the game playing male and female... Aside from romance options and how the NPC refers to our character.



#149
Altair_ShepardN7

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Oh I got one...I got one. Let Bioware make a really sexy blonde, blue eyed babe who reveals she is biologically male after your character has sex with her. Oh yes, yes this will be awesome. ;)  Let's hope BioWare is listening to our great ideas.

Heh, it would most likely play out like this :P :

 

Didn't they do something similar in Origins? In the brothel, one of the surprises was a male dwarf in female clothing or something like that. There were also several women with male voices. 



#150
CrazyCatDude

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You do know using the term SJW just diminishes your argument (such as it is)?
Am I a 'sjw' because I want a better future for my daughter? If so then your statement is patently absurd and idiotic.

 

Von Uber, the definition of "SJW" is, near as I've been able to tell, "anyone who doesn't think everything is perfectly hunky dory with regards to how women and minorities are treated by society as a whole."  Under some circumstances, it also indicates "anyone who doesn't know that poor people and lower middle class people should kiss the butts of rich and upper middle class people and be grateful for the scraps they are allowed."  So, by the most common definition of SJW, wanting a better future for your daughter definitely makes you an SJW.


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