271 réponses à ce sujet

[BansheeOwnage]

The former-no, it's definitely not as easy getting the correct set of hairstyles that can please fans and have it fit all 8 models, implement (hello physics, simulating thousands of hairstrands without clipping the model) and then bugfix (may I add the engine itself doesn't seem to support hairstyles that well, or maybe they just haven't learned enough about it to implement); the process is more complicated than armor using meshes already in the game. the latter yes, I actually agree.

I imagine though the difficulty with Skyhold outfit is that it's used as the base clothing for the main armor in the game, i.e.: you always have to have it on because it's basically part of your armor. I dunno much about that, though. 

The community's modders beg to differ. Sure, most of the hairs they've created don't work on all races, but in 7 months I am very sure that a team of professionals could out-do (haha, pun) a bunch of amateurs without a proper toolkit or the resources the devs have. So that argument is not good enough for me.

 

As for the Skyhold outfit, modders have made significantly different versions of that (as well as used armour in Skyhold) with no problems.

 

"Like"s aside I think Bioware needs to readjust it's business strategy, or maybe even EA. I believe there's this philosophy that you should milk as much money as possible from a single game, as opposed to rewarding fans encouraging them to continue supporting future games. This isn't CoD EA/Bioware, you have a very loyal fanbase who continue to support each game you put out, and honestly paid cosmetic dlcs should just stop, it may seem like a loss in the beginning, but when you draw in fans with free stuff, they'll pay for the bigger stuff. 

I agree, it's a terrible business model. I also think having a hair and Skyhold outfit DLC would generate more goodwill than this, regardless of it either was free.

[Wulfram]

If people don't want it, then people won't buy and then presumably Bioware will stop making it.

 

Though I would guess it'll get a decent amount of purchases on grounds of boobs, even if people don't care about Skyhold decor.  There's a reason SW:tOR sells a whole bunch of rather skimpy armours.

 

(And to be fair the thought of showing up to, say, Vivienne's party in the Avvar War Paint is fairly attractive.  Though I guess you might not get the item soon enough)

[Lukas Trevelyan]

The community's modders beg to differ. Sure, most of the hairs they've created don't work on all races, but in 7 months I am very sure that a team of professionals could out-do (haha, pun) a bunch of amateurs without a proper toolkit or the resources the devs have. So that argument is not good enough for me.

 

 

3) Probably because they worked on bug-fixing, QoL improvements, Black Emporium, Jaws Of Hakkon, Wolf Hunt DLC instead of adding new hair. I know which ones I'd prefer. 

[BansheeOwnage]

Useless?

 

You're ever going to get a free download with tons of gear. Period, end of story. Not going to happen. Bioware is a for profit business. They have to make money. They don't just wave a wand and make these things appear. There are hours and hours of work going into designs and writing and quality control. They have to recoup. They could have sold BE, but they didn't. They gave it to us.

 

And don't make assumptions about how "easy" anything is. We don't know what it would take to put in new hairstyles or be able to allow for a costume change at Skyhold. If I remember correctly, Dave Gaider did say they wanted to do the latter but there were technical issues that didn't allow for it. Is it possible they're working to change that, yeah, but it's also possible they have other priorities.

You misunderstood me. I didn't say BE was useless, I said this DLC is useless. I don't have to make assumptions. If people can make better hairs in their free time with minimal resources and no pay, a team of professionals can do the same (or better!) in 7 months. We definitely know what it would take to change the costume at Skyhold. Practically nothing. In fact, every time you leave Skyhold you appear in your armour for a second.

 

Sure, they could have higher priorities, but apparently those priorities consisted of this useless DLC. So I obviously think their priorities suck.

 

Yeah while mostly working with a set model, characters like Isabela only has one model which makes hair for her "easier" to work it 

 

Now that isn't to say it can't be done for the Inquisitor but I'd imagine it would take longer for them 

It would take longer, yeah. But they've had 7 months

[SofaJockey]

The completionist in me will probably offset this against the price of a hamburger,

though it's a bit of an odd DLC...

[AresKeith]

Trying to use modders isn't a good example because they have all the free time they can have where developers don't have that luxury 

[Captain Wiseass]

Trying to use modders isn't a good example because they have all the free time they can have where developers don't have that luxury 

They also don't have bosses, QA reps, and accountants to keep happy.

 

Someone who knows a little bit about engines can jerry-rig a new carburetor (sp?) for his car if he doesn't like the one he has, I suppose. Expecting the car manufacturer to design, build, mass-produce, and release onto the market an equivalent part in the same amount of time is, however, ridiculous. Especially if it's just to please that guy and a relative handful of others like him.

[BansheeOwnage]

 

Your argument fell flat on its face with the announcement of this DLC. Because apparently their priority was making this.

 

Trying to use modders isn't a good example because they have all the free time they can have where developers don't have that luxury 

BS. The team could easily accomplish making a hair/Skyhold outfit pack and main DLC at the same time, as evidenced by this DLC. And the devs said making hair is "pretty easy and fast", so I'm sure they could make just a few in 7 months.

[Captain Wiseass]

Your argument fell flat on its face with the announcement of this DLC. Because apparently their priority was making this.

Probably because cost-benefit analysis told them they'd make a better profit off of this than a hair pack.

[Felya87]

1) As I said, they probably haven't learned it until recently, and never underestimate the time it would take to learn a game engine. As for the second point, you're completely incorrect, proportions are glaringly different between humans/elves/dwarves for both males and females, I suggest you hit character creator again and check things out.

2) Because Isabela is a single, fixed character. There are zero variables to her customization whereas there are hundreds for the Inquisitor.

3) Probably because they worked on bug-fixing, QoL improvements, Black Emporium, Jaws Of Hakkon, Wolf Hunt DLC instead of adding new hair. I know which ones I'd prefer. 

 

They have made an entire game with the frostbite. I hightly doubt they haven't learned even now.  and we have in game proof they have learned how to make hairstyles. Josephine, Morrigan, Leliana, Cullen, Blackwall, Sera. And the gray portraits. But after the game is out, they have just forgot how to make hair? please...that's a joke.

The differences in the races aren't skull related. All have the same bone structure of the skull. Differeces are in the face structure and ears. nothing that touch hair. Even the slight differences in size (I don't think there is) is something that the most elemental program can regulate quite easily.

 

If the hair are so hard, why not give Isabela one of the styles that are already in the CC? 

 

We don't know if they are working on the Wolf Hunf DLC. We don't really know nothing at all. We know only that they haven't finished with DAI. But we don't know nothing. Some words about the hairstyles, or some explanation on why changing texture on the jammies is sooooooooo hard, when modders did it in few weeks after the game was out, would be interesting.

[BansheeOwnage]

They also don't have bosses, QA reps, and accountants to keep happy.

 

Someone who knows a little bit about engines can jerry-rig a new carburetor (sp?) for his car if he doesn't like the one he has, I suppose. Expecting the car manufacturer to design, build, mass-produce, and release onto the market an equivalent part in the same amount of time is, however, ridiculous. Especially if it's just to please that guy and a relative handful of others like him.

Which is why I blame the bosses. I don't blame the modelers, concept artists, writers, etc. They do fine work. The bosses set the priorities and the priorities suck.

 

I didn't ask for it in the same amount of time. Modders have made hairs within 1 month of release. It's been 7. My faith in the Bioware team says they could do it. Unfortunately, I have no faith in their leadership.

 

What? You think only a handful of people would like new hairs and a Skyhold outfit change? You are out of the loop!

[BansheeOwnage]

Probably because cost-benefit analysis told them they'd make a better profit off of this than a hair pack.

I posit that they have terrible cost-benefit analysis.

[AresKeith]

BS. The team could easily accomplish making a hair/Skyhold outfit pack and main DLC at the same time, as evidenced by this DLC. And the devs said making hair is "pretty easy and fast", so I'm sure they could make just a few in 7 months.

 

The difference being that the mesh for this pack was already being used while making new hair would have to be done from scratch 

 

And the devs saying that they're getting the hang of it now means there is a chance they might do it 

[dsl08002]

So basically its useless nothing of worth.

[Captain Wiseass]

I posit that they have terrible cost-benefit analysis.

They would be in a better position to know than you.

[AresKeith]

So basically its useless nothing of worth.

 

Well it is a pack

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

 

Trying to use modders isn't a good example because they have all the free time they can have where developers don't have that luxury 

Modders do things in their free time outside their life/work/family. Which is likely less time than the 40+ hours a week a dev is paid for. So you're argument there is kinda full of holes. BansheeOwnage is right about that.

 

That said, modders haven't truly figured out the skyhold outfit issue, either. They've retextured the skyhold pajamas, yes, but you still can only have one texture for it at a time. They're not set up like the ME2/ME3 outfits Shepard had where you can choose from several different ones within the game itself. You have to uninstall one mod and install another to change the skyhold pajama outfit to a new texture. The game is coded to see only one one pajama asset.

 

On a related note, its also like how the formal outfit in Halamshiral can't be different across party members cus its all drawing on the same uniform asset.

 

To fix either issue, the devs would have to actually change the code in the game. It would take more effort to get it to work how players want it to work than simply making a new texture. 

 

I think they should put that effort in, mind you. Definitely. And I'd pay $10-15 to compensate them for the recoding effort, depending on how many textures they put in the actual pack, even if I didn't like half of them. I just understand that it isn't a simple thing.

[BansheeOwnage]

The difference being that the mesh for this pack was already being used while making new hair would have to be done from scratch 

 

And the devs saying that they're getting the hang of it now means there is a chance they might do it 

Yes, but surely it isn't too much to ask that they address one of the most universally acknowledged complaints in the 7 months they've had to do so, even if they can't just copy-paste textures. I hope you're right on the second part.

 

They would be in a better position to know than you.

You think just because they're a business, they're infallible? Because businesses have never had terrible strategies before? They can show me some data, otherwise I disagree.

[AresKeith]

 

 

Modders do things in their free time outside their life/work/family. Which is likely less time than the 40+ hours a week a dev is paid for. So you're argument there is kinda full of holes. BansheeOwnage is right abotu that.

 

 

Not really, like I also said developers have other things to work on than just worry about making new hair 

 

Is it possible that they can work on the hair? Yes. Will it happen? I don't know

[BansheeOwnage]

Not really, like I also said developers have other things to work on than just worry about making new hair 

They said they started making this pack after JoH. I would say that instead of doing that, they should have started to work on hair/outfits soon after launch. Even if they barely worked on it each day, with an entire team capable of doing so, you'd think they could get something done in 7 months. That's what I'm saying. They can do it, I believe in them. They won't do it, but they certainly can, and I would say without any downside to them. Even if it was slightly cost-prohibitive (which I doubt) they would generate goodwill, and that shouldn't be taken lightly.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

Not really, like I also said developers have other things to work on than just worry about making new hair 

Only if they're assigned to work on other things. If its decided the new DLC will be about that time Bull went giant baiting, that's what they'll work on.  If its decided the new DLC coming up is gonna be a hair pack, then the devs work on hair. Basically, all you are saying in your argument is that new hairstyles weren't chosen as content for the dlc. And my response is: Well, yeah, we noticed that.

[KennethAFTopp]

The shematics are of the armours in the images. So the paint armour and the fur one.

No New weapons?

[AresKeith]

Only if they're assigned to work on other things. If its decided the new DLC will be about that time Bull went giant baiting, that's what they'll work on.  If its decided the new DLC coming up is gonna be a hair pack, then the devs work on hair. Basically, all you are saying in your argument is that new hairstyles weren't chosen as content for the dlc. And my response is: Well, yeah, we noticed that.

 

Their main focus is on the second story DLC coming, this pack was done of the side which was the point of my second half of the post that there's a small chance they could do it one the side

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

No New weapons?

Well it says "and schematics to give your party the advantage against your foes." The schematics seem to be referring to the armor mentioned a few words before that, but its possible the schematics include a weapon, I suppose. I wouldn't bet on it, but there's enough grammatical wiggle room to live the dream, if you like. lol

[KennethAFTopp]

always want to live the dream