49 réponses à ce sujet

[katerinafm]

Okay, I finally got round to playing Jaws of Hakkon, and one of the things that I remembered bothered me about DA:I is the floating camera during conversations with NPCs. I really miss just the standard conversations where you could see the character's faces in their dialogue. I mean, if it's a one-off line or monologue then stick without the instance. But when you have a full dialogue tree, just feels a bit disconnecting.

Just a small thing, but I wondered how others felt about it?

 

 

 

Yep. I bring it up whenever possible in the hopes that they don't continue it in the future.

[Sartoz]

Actually, I like the new conversation system.  It's lighter-weight than the fully-scripted cinematics so it means you can get more talky bits for fewer zots.  The problem is that they had so few characters that were worth talking to or that had anything like a personal arc.  

 

Snip

 

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"..  few characters that were worth talking to .."

 

And that is the crux of it. Witcher 3 has many, many interesting NPCs including their personal quests (currently playing the game).

 

I'd say, since CD Projekt RED announced four million games sold after two weeks from game launch time, that something they did must resonate with the buyers.

 

source:  http://www.gamesindu...on-in-two-weeks

 

As to the fixed vs floating camera,  my view is that Bio was running short on development time and money. Note that 30-40% of an AAA game budget is allotted to graphics.

[SerriceIceDandy]

Reflecting back on what was said, I do think that the lack of NPCs worth investing in is the main issue there; or that it's harder to be when the camera pans out to make it feel like you're eavesdropping. I just think of the characters in DA:O, and DA:2, and I think I can recall them better because I was in a conversation instance with them. I'm not saying it has to be a cutscene, in fact I'd rather not have my input compromised, but at least make us, as the player, feel like we're part of it. 

I can't speak for everyone, but I think I'm conditioned to think that if this conversation is not drawing me in by looking at the participant's faces it's one I can get away with half paying attention to and to start fannying around with the camera or walking round the NPC in circles. For example, when talking to the Thane of Bear-Hold, I think there was only one conversation with her where she wasn't slumped on her chair staring in my general direction. She seemed as disinterested in the conversation as Dorian who was standing, unflinching, with one foot in the fire place. 

It also helps when your companions weigh in on the conversation too; makes it seem like they're actually there rather just mindlessly following me around. I know DLC tended to get shafted in terms of companion dialogue due to budget blah blah blah. Like Fenris or Anders would voice their opinions to you during the conversation; now we just get Sera going 'You fecking wot?' as I turn to walk away.

[Sylvius the Mad]

DAI and ME2 are exactly the same. Except the camera and animations. Why would you be against camera angles? ME2 had the same little choices... for instance, like speaking to Cassandra in Haven, and commenting on mages/family stuff, etc.. This is all in ME2 as well. Just giving these Cass scenes a more cinematic presentation would only improve it. Not worsen it or cheapen your character. The choices remain the same regardless.

In ME2, you don't get to choose, because the details of the thing you are choosing ia hidden from you. This is particularly true with the interrupts, but even in ordinary dialogue I found it largely impossible to determine what the paraphrases meant. Talking to TIM at the beginning was terrible, because I appeared to have no control over Shepard's behaviour.

DAI does vastly less of that.

Cinematics tend also to include not just words, but actions, and there are two major problems with that. First, it's rare that the actions are described to us well (or at all) before we choose the option that triggers them. Second, I would like the words tk be uncoupled from the actions, so I can choose them in any combination.

That's why I prefer the older games where conversation appeared only in a text box. Then they couldn't contains actions, which meant they were never directly associated.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I probably wouldn't purchase another Bioware game if their future titles had no cinematics and the protagonist was silent.

I'd buy multiple copies to make up the difference.

[Super Drone]

 I doubt "But I'll buy two copies!!" is sufficient feedback to get developers to cater to you.

[Wulfram]

I'm unconvinced many of these conversations would be very engaging even if they had a close up camera.  There are exceptions, but most of the non-cinematic conversations seem to be lacking in real interaction or interesting characters anyway.

 

 I doubt "But I'll buy two copies!!" is sufficient feedback to get developers to cater to you.

 

Maybe he'll buy 2,000,000 copies?

[PsychoBlonde]

DAI and ME2 are exactly the same. Except the camera and animations. Why would you be against camera angles? ME2 had the same little choices... for instance, like speaking to Cassandra in Haven, and commenting on mages/family stuff, etc.. This is all in ME2 as well. Just giving these Cass scenes a more cinematic presentation would only improve it. Not worsen it or cheapen your character. The choices remain the same regardless.

 

Uh, no it wouldn't.  Those scenes would have been cut or at least cut down if they'd required a cinematic treatment--animation is complex and very expensive.  I'd rather they save the cinematic zots for good stuff and leave the "so, tell me all about the Qunari" stuff as a sideline.  It makes it cheaper, so we get more of it.  People generally don't move around a lot or do anything significant when you're just chatting about neutral topics anyway.

[thats1evildude]

This must be a platform-specific thing, because on XBox One, you can rotate the camera to see the person's face.

[Ariella]

This must be a platform-specific thing, because on XBox One, you can rotate the camera to see the person's face.

Which is one of a number of reasons I have little problem with it.

Cut scenes should be saved for impact, not for every conversation.

[Enigmatick]

In ME2, you don't get to choose, because the details of the thing you are choosing ia hidden from you. This is particularly true with the interrupts, but even in ordinary dialogue I found it largely impossible to determine what the paraphrases meant. Talking to TIM at the beginning was terrible, because I appeared to have no control over Shepard's behaviour.

DAI does vastly less of that.

Cinematics tend also to include not just words, but actions, and there are two major problems with that. First, it's rare that the actions are described to us well (or at all) before we choose the option that triggers them. Second, I would like the words tk be uncoupled from the actions, so I can choose them in any combination.

That's why I prefer the older games where conversation appeared only in a text box. Then they couldn't contains actions, which meant they were never directly associated.

How do you feel about PoE's interactive "cutscenes" then?

 

Also I agree about the grand strategy bit. A lot more of DAI's story and mechanics would have made more sense in a strategy game.

[In Exile]

I'm unconvinced many of these conversations would be very engaging even if they had a close up camera. There are exceptions, but most of the non-cinematic conversations seem to be lacking in real interaction or interesting characters anyway.

I would normally say you're right ... but the way people praise a lot of the kind of pointless DAO conversations, I'm not so sure.

[Han Shot First]

I would normally say you're right ... but the way people praise a lot of the kind of pointless DAO conversations, I'm not so sure.

 

I think in what makes the interaction with many of the non-party NPCs in Dragon Age: Inquisition uninteresting is a little bit of column A, and some of column B. It is both the uninteresting or bare bones dialogue and a lack of cinematics.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I think in what makes the interaction with many of the non-party NPCs in Dragon Age: Inquisition uninteresting is a little bit of column A, and some of column B. It is both the uninteresting or bare bones dialogue and a lack of cinematics.

Apparently I like those features.

[Sylvius the Mad]

How do you feel about PoE's interactive "cutscenes" then?

I'll let you know.

[In Exile]

How do you feel about PoE's interactive "cutscenes" then?

Also I agree about the grand strategy bit. A lot more of DAI's story and mechanics would have made more sense in a strategy game.

It's not fair to call then cutscenes. They're just text adventures.

[Kage]

I agree.

At first I thought those were super expensive to make, and I prefered more dialogue to more cinematics... However, then Witcher 3 came and it opened my eyes.

There is no excuse, please more dialogue and all close.

[In Exile]

I agree.

At first I thought those were super expensive to make, and I prefered more dialogue to more cinematics... However, then Witcher 3 came and it opened my eyes.

There is no excuse, please more dialogue and all close.

 

Witcher 3 doesn't have cinematics very often, mind you, it has cutscenes, and they aren't the same thing. 

[TheCrippler]

I just want people to stand still when I'm talking to them. Is it really too much to ask?

 

I don't need cinematic cut scenes or whatever the hell or even a voiced protagonist - just people to stand still

i agree with all of you majer problem Bioware dos not care ore lisen at all

[Saphiron123]

Okay, I finally got round to playing Jaws of Hakkon, and one of the things that I remembered bothered me about DA:I is the floating camera during conversations with NPCs. I really miss just the standard conversations where you could see the character's faces in their dialogue. I mean, if it's a one-off line or monologue then stick without the instance. But when you have a full dialogue tree, just feels a bit disconnecting.

Just a small thing, but I wondered how others felt about it?
 

Yeah, I miss it too. It felt like you were talking to real characters, not static MMO cutouts. Alistair was more real all those years ago then 99% of the dragon age inquisition interactions.

[Kage]

Witcher 3 doesn't have cinematics very often, mind you, it has cutscenes, and they aren't the same thing. 

 

Oh ok, I meant cutscenes. I dont care a bit for cinematics with today's graphics.

[In Exile]

Oh ok, I meant cutscenes. I dont care a bit for cinematics with today's graphics.

 

I agree, I generally think they're a waste. Best example is Varric twirling an arrow in DA2 in his introduction. Nice scene, but not worth the effort vs. just getting the camera right for other conversations. 

[BansheeOwnage]

This is what I had to say about it in another thread, and I'll bold one part that people are currently discussing.

My problem with the lack of cinematic conversation (primarily for NPCs) is twofold:

 

First, neither your character, the party, nor the NPC in question will have any facial expression. I don't think I have to explain how that is bad for storytelling.

 

Second, you can't get a good look at the NPC's face at all, naturally making them forgettable.

 

On a related note: People like to confuse "cutscenes" with "cinematic conversation". No, I'm not asking for full-blown cutscenes for every interaction, complete with tons of animations and camera angles. I'm just asking for cinematic conversation, à la DA:O camp conversations. Simple over-the-shoulder camera angles so we could see faces. So I hope they go back to DA:O/DA2's system of having that in almost every interaction. It was a lot of work I'm sure, but it was impressive and added a lot to the games. I think they should strive to do at least as well in the future.

[Sylvius the Mad]

It's not fair to call then cutscenes. They're just text adventures.

They're not cinematic, but I would absolutely call them cutscenes - particularly the non-interactive ones.