46 respuestas en este tema

[Vazgen]

We would give them antibiotics.

Ba Dum Tss!

[Silvair]

Jack's "kids" are a bunch of punks wet behind their ears with no real military training.

All they got was probably less than a year's worth of training with Jack. So yeah, with them the correct decision would be to use them for support duties.

 

However, a biotic that actually completed biotic training, AND went through the N training program?

It's like I said above: Take the potential of a commando, add to it the extra tankiness of a strong Barrier, the extreme movement utility of Biotic Charge,

the ability to explode things without grenades, and in short range the ability to smash people into walls.

 

It's... respectable. Not god-like maybe, but a trained biotic operative would be a force to be reckoned with on the battlefield.

But that's all peripheral.  You're assuming we'd HAVE all this Biotic training.  Even in Mass Effect, actual Biotic training places are rare and usually shut down (Pragia, and the place that trained the initial wave of people like Kaiden).
In reality I don't think they'd see it as cost effective, since again, the practical applications are both limited, and inefficient.  All biotic require extreme concentration, and wear you out.  And most of what it can do is hugely impractical.  Like Push/Pull//Shockwave/Singularity, etc, etc, You'd just get shot.  It's good in a pinch, as a last resort or something, but that's about it.  

 

i think only Matriarchs can really use Biotics effectively (Using it to casually levitate, lowering from high areas and throwing up real shields, etc), but thats CENTURIES of practice.  Only one human was able to match that, and it required essentially being the lone survivor of a child deathcamp.  


Literally, Shields and Barriers are the only useful application of biotics, but they still have their downsides which makes them impractical. (Taxing the user, durability limits, years of extremely expensive training and implants to produce wanted biotic effects, etc, etc)

[Laughing_Man]

*snip*

 

There are a lot of assumptions here about cost effectiveness and general effectiveness of biotics, yet you ignore evidence to the contrary from just about any cutscene in ME that had biotics in it.

 

You chose to concentrate on the powers that got "nerfed" because of gameplay reasons since ME1 so that they wouldn't work if someone is protected by a barrier. In ME1 a singularity was able to lock down a room full of enemies.

 

(I would say that it is more likely that in reality a barrier would merely make things harder for biotics, not completely block the effects.)

 

In any case, a movement ability like charge, can allow a single soldier to wreak havoc on an unprepared enemy.

Warp is also very useful against enemies, shielded or unshielded. And as you said yourself, barrier.

And that's before the explosions or abilities like Flare.

 

Making your own special operatives up to par with other races', is never something you just ignore if you have any kind of political ambition and a sense of self preservation.

 

Regarding a place of training: Shepard had to learn somewhere, right?

And there's always the possibility of hiring a few... user friendly Asari, to do the job that the grumpy Turian was initially hired to do until his neck got kicked in. (I still fail to understand the logic of getting a Turian to teach biotics just after the first contact war. Aren't there enough Asari mercenaries desperate for an easy job and good money around?) Or even better, get people like Kaiden or Shepard to teach the newbies.

 

You don't have to learn for centuries to be a capable biotic. Miranda, Jacob, Kaiden, Shepard and Thane are proof.

[Undead Han]

 

 

You don't have to learn for centuries to be a capable biotic. Miranda, Jacob, Kaiden, Shepard and Thane are proof.

 

I agree with this. Singularity is is supposed to be the most difficult biotic ability to master, and one that can only be performed by the most powerful of biotics, but there is no indication that some of the other biotic abilities are near as difficult to learn. And even Singularity doesn't necessarily take centuries to learn. Gillian Grayson was capable of it and potentially Shepard as well.

[vargr1105]

If certain members of human population started exibiting biotic powers as in mass effect (ability to move trough solid objects and charge a target, pick up heavy objects and throw/slam them or just create singularities, how would our governments react and what would happen to those people?

 

 Assuming the manifestation of such powers was something the general public became aware of en masse as the events took place, I expect prior to any governments having a chance to actively respond to it we would see manifestation of mass histeria, probably of the religious kind. Also social instability, riots, the media milking the fear for all it's worth, groups of militia/vigilantes with shotguns and pickup trucks wandering around "we don't care for them kind o'er here", etc, etc.

 

I'd also wager the first govermental reaction, apart from useless "Please Remain Calm - Evetything is Under Control- We Are the Government and We Are here to Help" annoucements, would be mutual acusations of between governments of that or the other being the party responsible for this occurence due to secret projects, etc.

 

Didn't Marvel Comics kind of deal with such a fictional matter in the X-Men line? I'd guess the average biotic would have to endure roughly the same amount of crap as your 1st-gen Marvel mutant. The fact biotics can't be told apart from notmal populace visually would just make the paranoia even greater than what's depicted on that series.

 

And let's be honest with each other. If indeed IRL we started seeing unfalsifiable evidence on our TV screens (or even witnessing it personally) of what for all intent and purpose are miracles, I'd guess most of us would be pretty unhinged. The most inteligent and meditative among us might well go a bit mad absorbing and considering all the implcations of these "biotics" running around. The Atheists among us would go trough a hard introspective time until science could explain how biotics worked, which would take years or even decades to begin with.

[SwobyJ]

Ha, I WANT biotics. Now.

[Laughing_Man]

One thing to point out about Biotics in general when it comes to possible panic-y responses from the (uneducated masses) public, is that compared to actual magic users or various "mutants", biotics are relatively weak and nonthreatening, especially biotics with no training.

 

What can they do? Glow blue? Exhibit minor telekinesis? That's more like a curiosity than an actual threat.

 

With time, the propaganda machine will show the public biotic heroes, like the hypothetical biotic WarHero!Shep, and the public will get used to the idea.

[Silvair]

One thing to point out about Biotics in general when it comes to possible panic-y responses from the (uneducated masses) public, is that compared to actual magic users or various "mutants", biotics are relatively weak and nonthreatening, especially biotics with no training.

 

What can they do? Glow blue? Exhibit minor telekinesis? That's more like a curiosity than an actual threat.

 

With time, the propaganda machine will show the public biotic heroes, like the hypothetical biotic WarHero!Shep, and the public will get used to the idea.

or more realistically, paranoia would kick in as people fear the potential, going around and lynching or ostracizing Biotics.

[Monica21]

or more realistically, paranoia would kick in as people fear the potential, going around and lynching or ostracizing Biotics.

 

We, as humans, seem to have a prevalence for wanting to kill what we doesn't understand, so I think the above is likely true. The Salem Witch Trials had very little factual evidence. It was just "something happened" and then the local unmarried woman with a fancy for herbs got the blame. Don't understand it? Then definitely burn it.

[Laughing_Man]

All good and dandy, but we don't live in the middle ages anymore, there are many more reasonable people around, and modern law enforcement agencies are not going to simply let lynches occur. If something like that did occur, I think that most people would favor an iron fisted approach against the perpetrators.

 

One lynch can potentially have a bigger impact on public opinion in an educated country than the entire biotic curiosity.

[Monica21]

All good and dandy, but we don't live in the middle ages anymore, there are many more reasonable people around, and modern law enforcement agencies are not going to simply let lynches occur. If something like that did occur, I think that most people would favor an iron fisted approach against the perpetrators.

 

One lynch can potentially have a bigger impact on public opinion in an educated country than the entire biotic curiosity.

 

Of course not. We find much more subversive ways to "lynch" these days. Just take a look at GitMo.

[Laughing_Man]

Of course not. We find much more subversive ways to "lynch" these days. Just take a look at GitMo.

 

Without getting too deep into political issues, I'll just say that "GitMo" did not appear in a vacuum, "Jihad" as an idea existed for a while and there

are no easy solutions for it. So yeah, innocents got hurt, and are getting hurt. Just like innocents in the world's trade center, or that kosher deli in Paris.

That is the reality when states fight against terror from non-state entities.

 

Still, I think that on the biotic issue, people here are influenced too much by fictional events in other stories, events that were overly dramatized on purpose, in order to make the conflict all the more critical, provoking, and total.

 

I maintain that the appearance of biotics, which are capable of very little without training, and furthermore lack even implants, will become just another curiosity for a public that lives in an age were aliens and strange new technologies are everyday things.

[Monica21]

Without getting too deep into political issues, I'll just say that "GitMo" did not appear in a vacuum...

 

Burning people for witchcraft didn't either.

[SwobyJ]

Most of humanity wouldn't lynch biotics.

 

But forms of discrimination would be widespread, and lynchings themselves would certainly still occur in parts of the world.

 

The 'biotic commune' thing makes sense to happen. Not as a common thing, but still as a thing.

 

Honestly I think Mass Effect, or at least ME1, was pretty realistic when it came to society and biotics. Within decades, most mistreatment dies down and a kind of equality and acceptance is reached, but in the first 1-2 decades things are rough, and then the next 2-3 decades things are bothersome. I don't think things are overdramatized - its just depicted that all biotics have at least somewhat of a rough time getting along with non-biotics, but the level of discomfort varies a lot. Kaidan would have been just fine if he didn't experience Jump Zero, but instead a more fair and humane training program.

 

Basically biotics IRL would be a contentious and sometimes violent issue, but would probably almost entirely settle down within decades. Those opposing biotics can largely (barring some strange events) simply not be a biotic and associate with them less. Those promoting biotics can largely (barring the initial protests) simply treat/advance/give biotics to those who wish to have it. The powers that biotics offer are quite magical, but still within the realms of 'day-to-day', even if it strains those boundaries.

 

I guess I'm in the middle of both of your (Tz, Mon) positions. Biotics will be treated as a danger, but only to an extent and temporarily. People will accept biotics, but with trepidation and care. Some bad things will happen to biotics and to a deadly extent, but many non-biotics will also be harmed by biotics until society adjusts its structure and policing. So my position is just that it'd be one of the biggest test of human society to date, but I also think we're in a place where the matter could be resolved easily within this century (assuming biotics started now in 2015) and that the concept of biotics isn't so utterly outside the realm of human existence that it can't be handled.

 

A big part of this depends on whether/how fast biotics can be explained by a mindset that isn't 'magic' or 'gods' or 'spirits' or 'demons'. The more we go to that extent, the more dangerous things could be. The more we get measurements, technology, scientific models, the less dangerous things can be - at least specifically for the matter of humans having biotics in itself.

[Laughing_Man]

Burning people for witchcraft didn't either.

 

The difference is of course, that witchcraft, as far as we know, is a fantasy, where's "Jihad" is a bloody reality.

But again, I would prefer to concentrate on ME:U than on current politics.

 

...but many non-biotics will also be harmed by biotics until society adjusts its structure and policing.

 

How? Biotics are not gods, and dark energy is not blood magic.

 

Add to that the following facts:

1. Biotics are relatively few.

2. Most if not all untrained Biotics, probably can't harm anyone no matter how much they may wish to do so. (hell, how many *trained* biotics can do serious damage without an implant?)

 

All in all, people will continue to get killed from violence because of the usual reasons.

"Death by biotics" will probably remain somewhere at the bottom of the statistics table.

 

By the point in time where society has to deal with trained biotic veterans trying to reintegrate into society, police should have already been armed with the relevant knowledge and tactics to deal with the occasional violent biotic.

 

And indeed, any good swift response team armed and trained correctly, shouldn't have much trouble with a lone biotic.

(they may even have biotics on their side)

[themikefest]

I would treat them like everyone else. They have an ability. Big deal.

[SwobyJ]

The difference is of course, that witchcraft, as far as we know, is a fantasy, where's "Jihad" is a bloody reality.

But again, I would prefer to concentrate on ME:U than on current politics.

 

 

How? Biotics are not gods, and dark energy is not blood magic.

 

Add to that the following facts:

1. Biotics are relatively few.

2. Most if not all untrained Biotics, probably can't harm anyone no matter how much they may wish to do so. (hell, how many *trained* biotics can do serious damage without an implant?)

 

All in all, people will continue to get killed from violence because of the usual reasons.

"Death by biotics" will probably remain somewhere at the bottom of the statistics table.

 

By the point in time where society has to deal with trained biotic veterans trying to reintegrate into society, police should have already been armed with the relevant knowledge and tactics to deal with the occasional violent biotic.

 

And indeed, any good swift response team armed and trained correctly, shouldn't have much trouble with a lone biotic.

(they may even have biotics on their side)

 

Take a look at biotic powers and tell me that one can't more easily:

-rob a place

-win a fight

-escape a jail

-escape a pursuit

-harm someone from a distance

-revolutionize some labor markets

 

with these powers. In fact, the game trilogy seems to like giving examples of how people with biotics, more often, more innately win at these things with less overall effort (except with surprised by a rare exceptional opponent/other powerful weaponry/other sorts of technology - all of which would have to develop or prove themselves after the emergence of biotics, not before).

 

A good swift response team example is exactly the kind of thing I meant when I said 'until society adjusts its structure and policing'. Depending on the region, culture, circumstances, etc, even this example could take years or decades before they set in and are given confidence by the majority of people as effective to respond to, stop, and mediate with biotics. Some places would be better at this than others. Some places will, at current 2015 cultural standards, be more comfortable just executing anyone exhibiting biotic behavior. I'm not just talking about comfortable first world cities here, but worldwide.

 

And indeed there would be millions of people who regard biotics as at least demigods. At least millions. This is a world of several billion people, of which a large fraction still believes, to some literal or metaphysical extent, in gods, demons, magic, and especially in this case, spiritual corruption and decadence. Biotics would be like like many of the 'Other' - something to be shunned to some extent, not accepted or welcomed. Some will take this to extremes. I'm not saying the world would be torn apart, but there will be pain on individual levels.

 

If you're denying that any pain and death will be caused to and by biotics by virtue/blame of their biotics, we'll really just have to disagree.

[Monica21]

The difference is of course, that witchcraft, as far as we know, is a fantasy, where's "Jihad" is a bloody reality.

But again, I would prefer to concentrate on ME:U than on current politics.

 

I'm not saying that we wouldn't eventually do better, I'm saying that we fear what we don't understand. We don't burn witches at the stake anymore. In the span of colonial American history that period didn't actually last that long. I'm simply saying that until we get to a point where it's understandable and scientifically explainable, biotics would likely be treated with a large amount of fear and mistrust, and many biotics would take advantage of their new-found powers.

 

Even then you'll still have people who don't accept it and chalk it up to possession or people who worship it. There are still flat-earthers and the Westboro Baptist Church, after all. There are people who look through crappy telescopes at home and are convinced that NASA is lying to us about what's actually on Mars, and that humans are test subjects for an alien species. Most people are rational. There are a lot of dumb people though. And I honestly can't say that I wouldn't be afraid if people suddenly started glowing blue and throwing stuff around. I mean, it's pretty weird.

[Silvair]

All good and dandy, but we don't live in the middle ages anymore, there are many more reasonable people around, and modern law enforcement agencies are not going to simply let lynches occur. If something like that did occur, I think that most people would favor an iron fisted approach against the perpetrators.

 

One lynch can potentially have a bigger impact on public opinion in an educated country than the entire biotic curiosity.

You say this like this stuff isn't still routine nowadays lol.

3rd world countries basically still are in the "middle ages", and the "deep south" of america isn't far off, then countries where being different is shamed, like japan or china, would definitely abuse their biotics (china would force them into military service, turning them into slave labor, more likely than not).

 

No the reality is most people would favor an iron fisted approach against the BIOTICS.  Especially if the Biotics ever fought back.  Modern law enforcement would just encourage it, if anything.  Not by publicly approving it, but by refusing to address it.

 

 

Without getting too deep into political issues, I'll just say that "GitMo" did not appear in a vacuum, "Jihad" as an idea existed for a while and there

are no easy solutions for it. So yeah, innocents got hurt, and are getting hurt. Just like innocents in the world's trade center, or that kosher deli in Paris.

That is the reality when states fight against terror from non-state entities.

 

Still, I think that on the biotic issue, people here are influenced too much by fictional events in other stories, events that were overly dramatized on purpose, in order to make the conflict all the more critical, provoking, and total.

 

I maintain that the appearance of biotics, which are capable of very little without training, and furthermore lack even implants, will become just another curiosity for a public that lives in an age were aliens and strange new technologies are everyday things.

Not really, I'm just going by real world reactions.  Bigots will go out of their way to attack people (Re: hate crimes), Africa and Middle East is nothing but hate wars, then we have hate crimes all across the us, almost daily.

Upper middle class 1st worlders just aren't usually exposed to it, so they don't believe it happens.

 

I'm not saying it'd turn into outright mass witch hunts, but I will say life would SUCK for an exposed Biotic.  They'd be turned into the X-Men, really.  Doesn't matter how useless their extra ability IS, people will hate them for it.
 

 

Most of humanity wouldn't lynch biotics.

 

But forms of discrimination would be widespread, and lynchings themselves would certainly still occur in parts of the world.

 

The 'biotic commune' thing makes sense to happen. Not as a common thing, but still as a thing.

 

Honestly I think Mass Effect, or at least ME1, was pretty realistic when it came to society and biotics. Within decades, most mistreatment dies down and a kind of equality and acceptance is reached, but in the first 1-2 decades things are rough, and then the next 2-3 decades things are bothersome. I don't think things are overdramatized - its just depicted that all biotics have at least somewhat of a rough time getting along with non-biotics, but the level of discomfort varies a lot. Kaidan would have been just fine if he didn't experience Jump Zero, but instead a more fair and humane training program.

 

Basically biotics IRL would be a contentious and sometimes violent issue, but would probably almost entirely settle down within decades. Those opposing biotics can largely (barring some strange events) simply not be a biotic and associate with them less. Those promoting biotics can largely (barring the initial protests) simply treat/advance/give biotics to those who wish to have it. The powers that biotics offer are quite magical, but still within the realms of 'day-to-day', even if it strains those boundaries.

 

I guess I'm in the middle of both of your (Tz, Mon) positions. Biotics will be treated as a danger, but only to an extent and temporarily. People will accept biotics, but with trepidation and care. Some bad things will happen to biotics and to a deadly extent, but many non-biotics will also be harmed by biotics until society adjusts its structure and policing. So my position is just that it'd be one of the biggest test of human society to date, but I also think we're in a place where the matter could be resolved easily within this century (assuming biotics started now in 2015) and that the concept of biotics isn't so utterly outside the realm of human existence that it can't be handled.

 

A big part of this depends on whether/how fast biotics can be explained by a mindset that isn't 'magic' or 'gods' or 'spirits' or 'demons'. The more we go to that extent, the more dangerous things could be. The more we get measurements, technology, scientific models, the less dangerous things can be - at least specifically for the matter of humans having biotics in itself.

Oh yeah we'd all get used to it eventually, but its historically proven that when a new kind of "people" is introduced, they are initially hated and distrusted.

Guilty until proven innocent.

[Callidus Thorn]

or more realistically, paranoia would kick in as people fear the potential, going around and lynching or ostracizing Biotics.

 

All it would take would be one story about a biotic assassin...

[Laughing_Man]

Clarification: All I said was about "1st world countries".

 

Hell, people are getting burned alive *today* in Africa because of accusations of witchcraft.

 

And if you want an example for extreme religiously motivated violence, you have Daesh (or Isil, as some in the west prefer to call it for some strange reason), Boko Haram, and other "peaceful" organizations of this kind.

 

If you want examples for extreme cruelty and violence period, you can find it in spades in the handiwork of certain crime organizations like the cartels.

 

 

What I am saying is that at first, Biotics will make themselves known to the public in a clearly structured and prolonged process:

 

A. Biotic children. The first thing about them, is that the majority of them will be harmless aside from some strange lights and weirdness.

Of course we will always have religious nutjobs screaming demons and devil etc. but in developed countries this should not be a rel problem.

Parents will care for their children in most cases, and reasonable people will not jump to magic and demons as an explanation.

 

B. Now comes the second stage, Biotic children are gathered for testing and training, and those with potential are trained for combat roles.

This is the second time the public meets the biotics - an average soldier-boy meets a trained biotic that helps him to take down some Xeno Scum. (nothing like a healthy dose of xenophobia to make you forget all your reservations about some of your fellow humans.)

 

C. By the time trained biotics will start to appear on the wrong side of the law, two things will happen. The first is that some veteran biotics will naturally transfer from military service to Law-enforcment, probably serving in most cases as a part of special response teams due to their abilities.

The second is that the data gathered by the military on biotics, will become available to the public and LEA's.

 

The educated public will realize that aside from rational explanation for the source, that while impressive, even a trained biotic is far from invincible, and is much less common than the average knife wielding thug, and is less efficient in killing civilians than any kind of automatic weapon. (which gun-laws or not, *will* be common in the hands of criminals much more than biotic powers.)

 

The police on the other hand, will have at this point in time their tools training and perhaps even their own biotics to handle trouble.

 

But yeah, third world countries will probably remain problematic. In a way, the middle ages were never over for them.

[Wulfram]

I don't think we'd care very much. The government would limit the sale of more powerful amps. Some people would get careers moving furniture, others would just forget it and become accountants.