74 réponses à ce sujet

[sonofbarak]

Hail to the power of patience

[TheAngrySnail]

Also:

 

1. I'm naturally lazy and assigning skill points over and over again is pointless. I've already assigned them, why should I do it over and over again? There are not that many important variations for the build, well maybe 2-3 maximum for each character. I try them all before I pick something I like. Also, now, there is respec amulet in game.

 

 That's what is baffling about this type of RPG to me. I already took that skill/spell, why the hell do I have to retake it 400 times? That's not character development, that's just a repetetive motion reassigning that same point over and over again.

 

2. I like to have characters that have powerful abilities and passives. Why should I play a part of this character which does not have the abilities I want to use?

3. I don't want to be too powerful. Higher difficulties are supposed to be challenging. it is possible to artificially bump the challenge by playing lvl 1 in perilous with inquisition weapons with 100+ promotions. Not for me though but you can play however you like and find funny and enjoyable.

 

Exactly. You can promote 500 times and solo Perilous with a 10th level character because of your promotions. How is that fun? What happens when you put 4 players that are on the leaderboards with their 100's of promotions together and play perilous....they just walk thru it like it's no big deal. I have played with 2 20th level characters on Routine - it sucked. Nothing could hurt us, no challenge whatsoever. I don't understand the need for Promotions at all other than that's what the game uses to populate the leaderboards.

 

4. I hate grinding. There is no point IMHO. For me, my manifest is the reflection of progression. The stats increase system is not interesting for me.

 

There's absolutely nothing to grind for in this game other than a spot on the leaderboards. Not enough incentive to play the same 4 maps constantly just to promote so you can get on these leaderboards. Leaderboards offer NOTHING to this gameplay whatsoever. Completely wrong genre of game.

 

5. IMO, in coop game, competing against other players with something other than your actual game performance is pointless if you mean leaderboards.

 

Dead on, nothing to add. Supposed to be Co-Op not versus.

 

6. I tried not to promote in ME3 as well apart from BotB challenge. I can use it as an excuse of my poor performance and scrubby gameplay. Same thing here. If I play badly, I can always say that I don't promote, my stats are low, and that's it. Sometimes, it works.

 

7. People who promote and farm for experience have a sense of progression through the game. Not my cup of tea though but their pov is understandable. It would be nice if pov of those who dislike to promote would meet similar level of understanding.

 

It's a very weird sense of progression that they have. They build the same character 600 times over just so one day, who knows when, they will be "powerful" enough to run caltrops instead of leaping shot even tho their build has done just fine with leaping shot the previous 600 builds. Baffling.  I feel completely opposite, ZERO attachment to the build because i've fallen into the "must promote immediately at 20 even tho I don't know why" mindset.

 

Good post, added my thoughts to it as well.

[Wavebend]

Because computer games to me are casual escapism, time off, fun, and I don't see any need to progress in a computer game. I see a need to progress in real life, as a human being, to improve myself, and I feel inherently bad, as if I'm wasting my time, if I spend time doing something in a form of escapism that doesn't have either an instant form of entertainment or gratification, or would in a short time lead to it. I feel as if that time should be spent bettering myself (which, I should point out, is enjoyable and gratifying in itself, and is to me a much more fulfilling form of 'progress').

(Please note I'm not saying people who progress in computer games aren't progressing in real life, that notion would be utterly ridiculous and I have nothing against those who genuinely enjoy promoting. I'm simply describing how I prioritise and answering your question.)

 

This, so much. I get this feeling a lot. Posting on the forums is ok, but grinding is a no-no

[Pheabus2009]

EXP farming sounds so MMO-ish, also no MMO has so many bugs that can magically eat your EXP.

 

Farming EXP-> Made it to zone 3/4/5 -> BS happens (Narnia, lost connection, CTD, etc) -> Force quit and lose EXP, dead loop,

If you stay at lvl 20, you don't lose much.

[SpaceV3gan]

Because grinding promotions is boring for some. Maybe not for you, but I don't think that's hard to understand tbh.

 

I play DAMP seriously for maybe 5hrs / week. I can't understand people who play for 8 hrs everyday and I won't make any effort to.

 
I miss the old Wavebend. I still remember our first few conversations. Chateu, no DLC, 23k, 8 min. You used to be a hardcore promotion grinder.

[Wavebend]

 
I miss the old Wavebend. I still remember our first few conversations. Chateu, no DLC, 23k, 8 min. You used to be a hardcore promotion grinder.

 

We all went through that phase. Shelledfade, Boatzu, Reginald, riz_, Deatonis, SyotosV, veramis, you and myself included, all hardcore promoters that were on the top 20 at the time. They all left because they didn't see the endgame. If the endgame is to keep promoting forever, then it doesn't make sense, because the game is already easy enough as it is without the need to promote at all. ATM, I don't see the point of grinding promotes unless it's purely for the leaderboard score.

[FNX Finest]

Because computer games to me are casual escapism, time off, fun, and I don't see any need to progress in a computer game. I see a need to progress in real life, as a human being, to improve myself, and I feel inherently bad, as if I'm wasting my time, if I spend time doing something in a form of escapism that doesn't have either an instant form of entertainment or gratification, or would in a short time lead to it. I feel as if that time should be spent bettering myself (which, I should point out, is enjoyable and gratifying in itself, and is to me a much more fulfilling form of 'progress').

(Please note I'm not saying people who progress in computer games aren't progressing in real life, that notion would be utterly ridiculous and I have nothing against those who genuinely enjoy promoting. I'm simply describing how I prioritise and answering your question.)

 

I don't mind games that set progress goals (be it attaining a level or weapon or whatever), so long as you can achieve those goals by playing the game, because one could simply play the game for a few hours a week and still achieve those goals. My issue lies when I'm not having fun doing so, and in all circumstances I would have more fun playing a level 20 character than a level 19 or under.

 

 

I liked this part of your post.

 

I don't agree with the instant gratification part of your post at all.  I would like a game with some substance to it.  Not just some peeing in the wind mindless drool fest.  Aside from that very well said and excellent points.

[Da_Noobinator]

@TheAngrySnail's last post,

Although I agree with your points, let's remember that if others derive enjoyment from the game in a different way to us, it is not an invalid way to do so. It is not even 'weird' or - and now I'm extrapolating - illogical. In fact, even by strict definition, even if others enjoyed promoting based on ideas that were objectively illogical or unreasonable (which I'd argue is untrue), it really doesn't matter, because one thing will always trump logic, reason, and emotional force - and that is experience. It is quite clear that often any form of major correlation between those reasonable forces and experience is often completely arbitrary, anyway, which reinforces my point. Others experience enjoyment from promoting - or at least the progression, or the process, if not the act itself -  and that simply is. To derive enjoyment from a game in a particular way, even if that way is something you personally wouldn't enjoy, does not make it invalid for others. I think it's very important to remember this in the pursuit of real understanding (as opposed to the pursuit of being correct) - it is not baffling for others to have different experiences to your or my self. Although it's certainly curious at times, I'll admit that.

 

@FNX Finest,

Thanks for the comments. I think it is important to remember that 'instant gratification' is in no way synonymous with shallow, cheap experience, or, indeed, 'peeing in the wind mindless drool fest' You could replace the phrase with 'quick entertainment' or other synonyms. The real importance of the value of it, though, is that I inherently disagree with the idea of grinding, being forced to do something that isn't interesting so that, one day, you may experience something interesting, when that grinding  is for the purpose of eventual interest, or escapism, entertainment, 'gratification', or whatever other word you'd like to insert there. By 'instant gratification', then, I really just mean instantly effective at being a game.

I'll use an extreme example, although I'll admit that most games aren't this bad. In RuneScape, an MMORPG, back when I played in 2007 you had to click the "hi-alchemy" spell over 123,000 times (and that is no exaggeration) to raise your Magic level to 94, enough to cast a very nice spell, Ice Barrage. I don't think it's humanly possible to enjoy clicking a button 123,000 times, with about a 5 second pause between clicks (although, not to be a hypocrite, if someone genuinely did enjoy that, all the power to them).

Now, RuneScape is obviously a lot more complex than just that (there were other, more interesting but less effective ways to get your Magic level to 94), and it is a very specific example, but there are many games that employ a dulled down version of this grinding for a reward ('kill X of Y' quests etc). Essentially, my issue lies with not enjoying the journey, when you really should be entertained by a video game. If not, it's a bad video game, in my opinion. MMORPGs specifically replace entertainment with addiction, and not because they're 'good' (aka 'entertaining), but because they tempt you with the idea of eventual enjoyment. Which, upon analysis, sounds utterly ludicrous but is effective marketing.

 

The games I listed aren't my impression of good or deep games, or games with substance to them, or even just games that aren't shallow. The last COD I played, for instance, was Modern Warfare 2. But they are all very effective at being their game (whether you enjoy the game itself or not is entirely a different point), because in order to play the game for the reason you bought it (say, enjoy it), you need to play the game. In the RuneScape example I gave, however, in order to play the game for the reason you paid for it (run around shooting spells at each other, amongst other reasons), you need to click hi alchemy 123,000 times. This is my point, and this is what I mean by 'instant gratification'.

 

Linking this back to Dragon Age for the sake of anyone else who may have read this post, I (personally) consider promoting synonymous with the 'unenjoyable journey' grind - I enjoy playing a level 20 more than, say, a level 19, and far more than a level 1.

 

EDIT: Sorry for these long posts, they really are much shorter in my head

[TheRaccoon]

Hmm... It seems that there are two kinds of casual players out there lol. I consider myself as a casual player but yet my definition of 'casual' is quite different from some of the folks here. I like rewarding grindings which would make my game easier to play. I like to play the games without too much stress. If grindings help, so be it.

I remember the time when I keep casting soul trap on a dead body to level up conjuration in Skyrim; keep killing some stupid liquid monsters in the lecture hall for echoes in Bloodborne; and now grinding for the medals for buying stuff in Dragon Quest Heroes. Same goes to DAMP, promoting can help my game to become less stressful to play. When there are silly ways to cheese the game, I would probably use them..

Plus, I feel it is a waste of XP playing at 20. For the same reason, I don't play more strikes when I reach the weekly limit in Destiny.

[Shadohz]

Because I'm a Contrarian. I refuse to let The Man dictate to me how I must play according to their "original game design". We must rise up against their oppressive regime. Remember the PF!!! 

[ParthianShotX]

Hey am not even number 1 on my friends list

I'm number 10 on mine.

[lynroy]

I simply don't promote because none of the characters I have unlocked are lvl 20. I don't play enough to get them to that level. Archer is the only one to reach level 20 and be promoted.

[sonofbarak]

In the immortal words of Marino "and you know that grind don't stop just cause I rose to the top and everyone knows my name, still grinding still hustling"

 

Everyone plays for his own reason. If you not having fun stop playing. For me am having a blast, some nights I wipe because I got tears in my eyes from laughing to hard.

[Westrum]

I love grinding. In all games. It's my meditation 

[Its Waffle Time]

I love grinding. In all games. It's my meditation 

There is a certain level of relaxation getting into the grove of a heavy grind. This I can agree and confirm with.

[CMDR FACE]

It doesn't take long to level back up so I do it.  Getting more powerful is nice as well.  Also, I am guessing that they will add a new difficulty soon as well.  I am basically building my stats up to be able to run at a higher level.  If I'm playing anyway, may as well get stats boosted out of it.

[Silversmurf]

To get ready for the new difficulty

 

Plus I don't mind the grind as it's still better than FFXI back in the day 

[Hellsteeth30]

To get ready for the new difficulty

Plus I don't mind the grind as it's still better than FFXI back in the day

That was my first and last MMO. Never again.

[Sir Perkins]

For me at least, playing @lvl 20 with favorite abilities and enjoying various combos in a team environment is most fun... have done a few promotes but dont find it fun at all promoting and starting over . Have very limited gaming time most days (10pm to midnight) and last thing I feel like doing is starting from lvl 1..

[Theghostof_timmy]

The point of promoting is so you can puG perilous without a barrierbot and not spend the entire (probably short) game fade watching. That is my goal more than anything else.

[Sir Perkins]

Guess I'll just stick to barriers for Perilous. .enjoy those classes any who. .

[TeamLexana]

Wow, I am surprised to see that so many people don't promote. That probably explains a lot. :/

[Pistolized]

The only time I promote is to change talents... I have 5 promotions total.  No regrets.  Well, a few regrets...

[Kenny Bania]

The only time I promote is to change talents... I have 5 promotions total.  No regrets.  Well, a few regrets...

 

Relevant...

 

[LordInfamous99]

I find myself promoting alot less now, have mid 20 constitution, willpower and mid 40 cunning. I find Perilous hard but doable . I think with the respec tool added its helped keep people at lvl 20 alittle longer.

I do enjoy running rampant in threatning ( always skipping doors, that wont ever change) as I work my way to lvl 14 or 15 where I switch to Perilous(and grudgingly, open doors...).

I think the game being quite stale at this point has slowed my promotions as much as anything else.