33 réponses à ce sujet

[AlmightyCarrot]

though I'm glad luke is aware of the SB balance issues and he buffed it now, something tells me it's still not good enough to use instead of auto attacks, what do you guys think now with that 50% buff?

[Dumpins]

25 mana 300%damage or make it faster a bit.

[Kalas Magnus]

it worked well for me.

 

i usually fall asleep spamming chain lightning.

[Wavebend]

I don't really get it. Why nerf SB but not Stone fist?

[Thadrial]

spirit blade is still useless to me. I just moved to caster build w/ FC FS CL SF. Only the original spirit blade would make me changed back.

[Kalas Magnus]

I don't really get it. Why nerf SB but not Stone fist?

cuz he wants to screw us scrubs.

 

or he doesnt like the sound/aesthetics of our lightsaber

[Yumi]

SB is dead, newly arisen as "GrumbleBlade".


The sqeaky noodle gets the buff, I guess.

[Hellsteeth30]

SB now OP, pls nerf.

[Theghostof_timmy]

I was thinking about using it again, but I looked at my build and I'd have to drop stonefist or Chain lightning.

[Felis Menari]

I was thinking about using it again, but I looked at my build and I'd have to drop stonefist or Chain lightning.

When using Spirit Blade, Fade Step is the skill I do away with. Chain Lightning, Stone Fist, and Fade Cloak are all too good to take out instead of Fade Step, in my opinion. It seems Luke is still content with trying to make Spirit Blade into something that just doesn't work; by making it super cheap to use, the damage must be pretty low to compensate. But with such low damage, it becomes less effective than other options in the majority of combat situations. So, why alter Spirit Blade in such a way in the first place?

[Theghostof_timmy]

When using Spirit Blade, Fade Step is the skill I do away with. Chain Lightning, Stone Fist, and Fade Cloak are all too good to take out instead of Fade Step, in my opinion. It seems Luke is still content with trying to make Spirit Blade into something that just doesn't work; by making it super cheap to use, the damage must be pretty low to compensate. But with such low damage, it becomes less effective than other options in the majority of combat situations. So, why alter Spirit Blade in such a way in the first place?

I can't live without fade step anymore. It's saved my life too many times. No-cost, low cooldown, heavy damage dealing gap closer. It's just too awesome. I'd drop fade cloak before fade step, and that certainly ain't happening for something so lame as spirit blade.

[Felis Menari]

I can't live without fade step anymore. It's saved my life too many times. No-cost, low cooldown, heavy damage dealing gap closer. It's just too awesome. I'd drop fade cloak before fade step, and that certainly ain't happening for something so lame as spirit blade.

I'm enjoying having Fade Step in my build once again (what do you expect when Spirit Blade gets nerfed into the ground? lol), but if Spirit Blade is made desirable enough in the future, I could see myself switching back to it. The FC/FS/SF/CL build certainly can handle groups of enemies better. But against single targets, the 300% weapon damage Spirit Blade was definitely something you'd want to have in my opinion.

 

Oh right, didn't SB get changed to where it interacts with Gathering Storm after the previous balance change? Heh, even still, with that and the 200% weapon damage, I don't see it being good enough to take over Fade Step. Staff attacks are still faster than SB, and hit at range, meaning Gathering Storm will be proc'ing more often, leading to spells being cast more often, which would likely lead to a non-SB build still dealing more damage than a SB build. So whoopdee doo, still nothing has really been accomplished with Spirit Blade.

[Theghostof_timmy]

I'm enjoying having Fade Step in my build once again (what do you expect when Spirit Blade gets nerfed into the ground? lol), but if Spirit Blade is made desirable enough in the future, I could see myself switching back to it. The FC/FS/SF/CL build certainly can handle groups of enemies better. But against single targets, the 300% weapon damage Spirit Blade was definitely something you'd want to have in my opinion.

Mm. Maybe. It was actually 400% before with the upgrade, plus the big damage boosts to barrier and guard. Taking out those alone would have made it balanced IMO. But Luke really, really doesn't like spirit blade so I don't see it getting back up there.

[Felis Menari]

Mm. Maybe. It was actually 400% before with the upgrade, plus the big damage boosts to barrier and guard. Taking out those alone would have made it balanced IMO. But Luke really, really doesn't like spirit blade so I don't see it getting back up there.

I was perfectly fine with the erroneous damage boost from SB's upgrade being done away with, along with the insane bonus damage to guard/barriers. With that taken care of, Spirit Blade would have been fine. But, Luke wasn't content with that, and so he upped the cost so it wouldn't be as desirable as before.

 

All that did was make me take Stone Fist and Restorative Veil. While I was pretty annoyed initially, I came to enjoy my new build ('cause Stone Fist is awesome, lol). So, I could still make SB work, it just required a specific build (which really is silly, requiring that kind of skill investment just for one skill to be good enough to use). But, now we have a version of Spirit Blade which isn't worth using at all. So yeah, that's awesome.

[Laforgus]

though I'm glad luke is aware of the SB balance issues and he buffed it now, something tells me it's still not good enough to use instead of auto attacks, what do you guys think now with that 50% buff?

 

Nope is not enough.

 

I am not fan of spamming SB, but i do like it for close combat pests, so 1 hard hit for high cost was great for me.

 

I wouldn't mind 1 single swing SB with 500% damage for 60 MP.

[Felis Menari]

Nope is not enough.

 

I am not fan of spamming SB, but i do like it for close combat pests, so 1 hard hit for high cost was great for me.

 

I wouldn't mind 1 single swing SB with 500% damage for 40 MP.

Holy ****...those are some mighty high numbers there. Could be interesting, but I don't think that would work out so well (mana still gets burned up on blocked hits). Really, if Luke boosted the damage to 300% and raised the cost to 10 or fifteen, then Spirit Blade would be solid with no need for further tinkering. Oh, now that I think about it....Restorative Veil restores mana based on damage done. With 500% weapon damage being done to a weakened target, chances are that 40 mana cost is going to get returned, leading to a very high damage ability that is easier to spam than anything else in the game.

[Shadohz]

I'd really like to see a player-driven rebalance suggestion for the AW that doesn't equate to "so I can go back and Atari 2600 controller my way thru Perilous". Even Luke had to learn the basic Force powers before Yoda would turn him loose on the universe to flash his lightsaber at anyone willing to look. You're not supposed to be able to stand still and power repeatedly with almost no drain to mana. I'd expect to see a change to Virtuoso barrier spam eventually.

 

I think I've read maybe two comprehensive suggestions before but neither of which really dealt with SB-chaining and Barrier-continuity problems with the AW. If you don't want to see it "over-nerfed" then why not come up with counter-suggestions to some of the changes.

[Felis Menari]

I'd really like to see a player-driven rebalance suggestion for the AW that doesn't equate to "so I can go back and Atari 2600 controller my way thru Perilous". Even Luke had to learn the basic Force powers before Yoda would turn him loose on the universe to flash his lightsaber at anyone willing to look. You're not supposed to be able to stand still and power repeatedly with almost no drain to mana. I'd expect to see a change to Virtuoso barrier spam eventually.

 

I think I've read maybe two comprehensive suggestions before but neither of which really dealt with SB-chaining and Barrier-continuity problems with the AW. If you don't want to see it "over-nerfed" then why not come up with counter-suggestions to some of the changes.

If you don't like mana based ability spam, then first you must do away with Restorative Veil and Zither's mana generation on-hit passive. Maybe Death Siphon's mana generation too, since you can spam spells fairly well that way too. But I don't have an problem with that. I simply have a problem with an ability being relegated to obscurity, especially one that I enjoy(ed) using, despite most other players (seemingly) opting to not use Spirit Blade at all.

[Shadohz]

If you don't like mana based ability spam, then first you must do away with Restorative Veil and Zither's mana generation on-hit passive. Maybe Death Siphon's mana generation too, since you can spam spells fairly well that way too. But I don't have an problem with that. I simply have a problem with an ability being relegated to obscurity, especially one that I enjoy(ed) using, despite most other players (seemingly) opting to not use Spirit Blade at all.

Restorative Veil and Death Siphon are both multi-kit passives. You have to look at them individually to see if changing the stats for the sake of one kit doesn't drastically impact the other. DS works much better on Elementalist than on Necro, so you have to look at what makes them so different that a change to DS is warranted or perhaps a change specifically to Ele. Rather than changing RV, what about looking to change Vielstrike, StoneFist and POTA to "chance to cast weaken"? 

 

Virtuoso actually has 3 passives that can regen mana: Combat Clarity, Feel the Crowd, Opening Set. Combat Clarity is a multi-kit skill so changing that would impact other kits as well. I would slightly adjust FtC and CC, since CC doesn't really make or break the AW like FS does. Do a 10% reduction on both skills and see how the Virtuoso and AW play. As far as SB that could be made into a heavy cost (25%) mana, unblockable skill.

[Felis Menari]

Restorative Veil and Death Siphon are both multi-kit passives. You have to look at them individually to see if changing the stats for the sake of one kit doesn't drastically impact the other. DS works much better on Elementalist than on Necro, so you have to look at what makes them so different that a change to DS is warranted or perhaps a change specifically to Ele. Rather than changing RV, what about looking to change Vielstrike, StoneFist and POTA to "chance to cast weaken"? 

 

Virtuoso actually has 3 passives that can regen mana: Combat Clarity, Feel the Crowd, Opening Set. Combat Clarity is a multi-kit skill so changing that would impact other kits as well. I would slightly adjust FtC and CC, since CC doesn't really make or break the AW like FS does. Do a 10% reduction on both skills and see how the Virtuoso and AW play. As far as SB that could be made into a heavy cost (25%) mana, unblockable skill.

The guaranteed weaken effect only comes with skill upgrades. Nerf that to only a chance to proc, and then it becomes a kinda ****** skill point investment, being that the reason to invest in weaken is to use it in conjunction with Restorative Veil. Combat Clarity is fine as is; it's undeserving of a nerf, especially when such a nerf would be the result of "We're not sure what to do...let's try this and see what happens!" (which is kinda what Luke is doing with Spirit Blade currently).

 

Most characters are able to spam skills one way or another, so why single out the Virtuoso and Arcane Warrior in that regard? Anyhow, your suggestion for Spirit Blade is intriguing, though I don't know if that would be better than keeping the damage and cost at a moderate level. At least it would give SB a more defined purpose, though I think Luke fear's making SB hit too hard. I'm sure it would be better than how SB currently works, though.

[DrakeHasNoFlow]

The guaranteed weaken effect only comes with skill upgrades. Nerf that to only a chance to proc, and then it becomes a kinda ****** skill point investment, being that the reason to invest in weaken is to use it in conjunction with Restorative Veil. Combat Clarity is fine as is; it's undeserving of a nerf, especially when such a nerf would be the result of "We're not sure what to do...let's try this and see what happens!" (which is kinda what Luke is doing with Spirit Blade currently).
 
Most characters are able to spam skills one way or another, so why single out the Virtuoso and Arcane Warrior in that regard? Anyhow, your suggestion for Spirit Blade is intriguing, though I don't know if that would be better than keeping the damage and cost at a moderate level. At least it would give SB a more defined purpose, though I think Luke fear's making SB hit too hard. I'm sure it would be better than how SB currently works, though.

Virtuouso hasn't been nerfed. Yet.

[Shadohz]

The guaranteed weaken effect only comes with skill upgrades. Nerf that to only a chance to proc, and then it becomes a kinda ****** skill point investment, being that the reason to invest in weaken is to use it in conjunction with Restorative Veil. Combat Clarity is fine as is; it's undeserving of a nerf, especially when such a nerf would be the result of "We're not sure what to do...let's try this and see what happens!" (which is kinda what Luke is doing with Spirit Blade currently).

It's an RPG. There should never be such a thing as a guaranteed spell, only passives. There should always be a chance of cast fail, spell interruption, dispel or some other counter. When I suggested changing it to 'chance to cast' that doesn't mean it needs to be in the low 60's or such. The CtC could be set to 75% which would still make the upgrade effective yet take some of the bite out of the passive boon. Balance changes are about guessing what to fix. If they got everything right the first time then you wouldn't need to re-balance them now would you.  You're not going to get every change correct the first time and many will disagree with the change(s) that don't benefit them. TBH I would've nerfed Fade Shield first then modded the behavior of SB rather than tweaking the damage.

 

Most characters are able to spam skills one way or another, so why single out the Virtuoso and Arcane Warrior in that regard? Anyhow, your suggestion for Spirit Blade is intriguing, though I don't know if that would be better than keeping the damage and cost at a moderate level. At least it would give SB a more defined purpose, though I think Luke fear's making SB hit too hard. I'm sure it would be better than how SB currently works, though.

I'm only going to slightly agree with that. Not every kit has the spam only one or two skills to be (overly)effective. Sure DAMP is kind of a button masher, but having kits or skill combos that let rank amateur complete harder difficulties (threatening/perilous) with little degree of difficulty is ridiculous. They have to be nerfed. The other kits still require some degree of finesse, even the Keeper. I singled out AW and Virtuoso because they exemplify the previous statement. A person shouldn't be about to use a 3/4 line macro, sit down their controller/keyboard and sip on a cool one while everyone else is working. Both of them have as I mentioned before problems with Barrier-continuity. I'm not really sure why you need an explanation for that since it's almost common knowledge at this point. 

[DrakeHasNoFlow]

Perhaps this current patch that's in beta trials is actually addressing what makes AW too cool, cough cough fade shield.....=)

[Felis Menari]

It's an RPG. There should never be such a thing as a guaranteed spell, only passives. There should always be a chance of cast fail, spell interruption, dispel or some other counter. When I suggested changing it to 'chance to cast' that doesn't mean it needs to be in the low 60's or such. The CtC could be set to 75% which would still make the upgrade effective yet take some of the bite out of the passive boon. Balance changes are about guessing what to fix. If they got everything right the first time then you wouldn't need to re-balance them now would you.  You're not going to get every change correct the first time and many will disagree with the change(s) that don't benefit them. TBH I would've nerfed Fade Shield first then modded the behavior of SB rather than tweaking the damage.

 

I'm only going to slightly agree with that. Not every kit has the spam only one or two skills to be (overly)effective. Sure DAMP is kind of a button masher, but having kits or skill combos that let rank amateur complete harder difficulties (threatening/perilous) with little degree of difficulty is ridiculous. They have to be nerfed. The other kits still require some degree of finesse, even the Keeper. I singled out AW and Virtuoso because they exemplify the previous statement. A person shouldn't be about to use a 3/4 line macro, sit down their controller/keyboard and sip on a cool one while everyone else is working. Both of them have as I mentioned before problems with Barrier-continuity. I'm not really sure why you need an explanation for that since it's almost common knowledge at this point. 

Your idea about a chance to fail spell casts sounds purely like personal preference, not like something that has to happen. Though, now that I think about it...there is spell interruption in DAMP, even for the AW funnily enough who has a stagger resistance passive. It's possible to get staggered while casting, knocking the mage off balance and causing the cast to fail. As for the barrier continuity issue you speak of, I have not played the Virtuoso, so I don't know how it is with him. With the AW, nigh constant barriers only comes with high/top end gear (of course lots of promotions help a good deal, but that I do not have).

 

And even then, it's possible for the AW to be overwhelmed. This barrier continuity issue doesn't really bother me. I'm fine with characters/classes not being absolutely balanced (even if the Virtuoso and AW get hit with a massive nerf bat, I wouldn't call DAMP balanced). And really, before anyone of the DAMP community suggests taking a nerf bat to something, we should wait until patch 8 lands. I imagine the changes to guard (and potentially barriers) will come with it, possibly changing the entire conversation on the matter.

[capn233]

Nope is not enough.

 

I am not fan of spamming SB, but i do like it for close combat pests, so 1 hard hit for high cost was great for me.

 

I wouldn't mind 1 single swing SB with 500% damage for 60 MP.

 

60 is probably a bit much, unless it is unblockable.  But I agree that decent damage for higher cost makes sense.

 

It needs to have a niche besides "something you do between casts of other powers" because that is the domain of auto attack to begin with.