43 réponses à ce sujet

[BreakJohn]

i tried something kinda similar. but i chickened out and instead of going full offense like you did here i went half and half with shield wall(or counterstrike whichever i was in the mood for), Walking Fortress, Payback Strike, Shield Bash. pretty safe build only thing was i swapped out counterstrike for shield bash, regardless i was bored out of my mind seeing as it played similar to regular tanky lego. Your build however and the way you describe it seems way more active and dare i say it fun, than the standard lego so i'll be giving this a shot before shelving the lego yet again. 

[themageguy]

Great build !

[jerky]

Good point about build order - and something I overlooked.  I was already at 12 or 13 when I read your build and just respecced, which allowed me to upgrade all the offense stuff AND get Unyielding as well.  That probably had something to do with it.

[SpaceV3gan]

 

I approve this, saw him on action last night!

I came here with the intent to say this build is too hipster and I would not bang, but after seeing Lagorfus' 100% Premium Quality Seal of Approval, I am sold.

[Gya]

Laforgus approved? Then you shall have a +1 from me, this build sounds fun. I shall have to try it out when I get some time.

[K_A_Rnage]

Bump

Will def try this tonight

[Zander-o-]

Dude, this build is amazing! I think i've never had so much with with the dwarf, thanks for sharing!

[Its Waffle Time]

I use something similiar in my Legoman build, I like having a second 'survival' ability, specially with the new stuff coming.

[yarpenthemad21]

I've have founded to use Payback strike quite rarely, pretty much most of the time I have either Lunge and slash or shield bash ready to use, and payback strike damage isn't really that good (also because I don't have taunt skills it can't stun targets)

Any tips for different skills? Or tips for payback strike, maybe I use it wrong.

[A-T-R-A]

What causes my lunge & slash to have zero cooldown?

 

I've been able to use it 3 times in a row on several occasions.

[yarpenthemad21]

What causes my lunge & slash to have zero cooldown?
 
I've been able to use it 3 times in a row on several occasions.

When used from longer range it has no cooldown.

[A-T-R-A]

It's awesome.  I found the ability ring and haven't stopped using it yet.

[BadgerladDK]

I've have founded to use Payback strike quite rarely, pretty much most of the time I have either Lunge and slash or shield bash ready to use, and payback strike damage isn't really that good (also because I don't have taunt skills it can't stun targets)

Any tips for different skills? Or tips for payback strike, maybe I use it wrong.

 

IMO, payback strike isn't here for the damage (lunge and slash + shield bash are), but it does some damage and is your get out of jail free card if lunge and slash sticks you into a situation where you're under CC, like a terror/demon commander scream, since you're relatively squishy for a legionaire, so you actually need to break that cc asap. Oh, and since it can hit multiple targets, it adds up for crits to trigger flow of battle as well.

 

So I guess if you want an alternative, it's combat roll to break cc, but that requires an extra skill point for the upgrade.

Modifié par BadgerladDK, 27 juin 2015 - 04:48 .

[TheThirdRace]

IMO, payback strike isn't here for the damage (lunge and slash + shield bash are), but it does some damage and is your get out of jail free card if lunge and slash sticks you into a situation where you're under CC, like a terror/demon commander scream, since you're relatively squishy for a legionaire, so you actually need to break that cc asap. Oh, and since it can hit multiple targets, it adds up for crits to trigger flow of battle as well.
 
So I guess if you want an alternative, it's combat roll to break cc, but that requires an extra skill point for the upgrade.

Exactly, Payback Strike is the least damaging ability you'll use, but it's invaluable in other situations like being knocked down or being feared. You don't realize how often that happens until you actually get to use it for that matter. The damage is really a secondary effect in that case, but it's still pretty good for what it is.

The strategy I laid out also say to use Lunge and Slash and Shield Bash before Payback Strike, they'll do more damage and will avoid Payback Strike from being on cooldown if you really need it. Sometimes it's preferable to wait before using Payback Strike and simply auto-attack after the first 2 skils because you can predict if you're gonna need the get out of jail card (Payback Strike) in the next 3 or 4 seconds to recover from something.

You should try to use Payback Strike after being hit, not before, as it deals twice more damage and will knockdown or stun enemies. It's very useful when you charge in a group with Lunge and Slash, you simply block 1 hit with Shield Wall (optional as Heal on Kill is there for that) and then Payback Strike will deal extra damage (200%?), stun and knock the whole group down.

Remember, the goal of this build is to prevent enemies from being able to damage your teammates. Knocking them down, stunning them and killing them outright will help you do that. As they say, the best defensive is a good offensive...

[yarpenthemad21]

Exactly, Payback Strike is the least damaging ability you'll use, but it's invaluable in other situations like being knocked down or being feared. You don't realize how often that happens until you actually get to use it for that matter. The damage is really a secondary effect in that case, but it's still pretty good for what it is.

The strategy I laid out also say to use Lunge and Slash and Shield Bash before Payback Strike, they'll do more damage and will avoid Payback Strike from being on cooldown if you really need it. Sometimes it's preferable to wait before using Payback Strike and simply auto-attack after the first 2 skils because you can predict if you're gonna need the get out of jail card (Payback Strike) in the next 3 or 4 seconds to recover from something.

You should try to use Payback Strike after being hit, not before, as it deals twice more damage and will knockdown or stun enemies. It's very useful when you charge in a group with Lunge and Slash, you simply block 1 hit with Shield Wall (optional as Heal on Kill is there for that) and then Payback Strike will deal extra damage (200%?), stun and knock the whole group down.

Remember, the goal of this build is to prevent enemies from being able to damage your teammates. Knocking them down, stunning them and killing them outright will help you do that. As they say, the best defensive is a good offensive...

I don't know about what form of "stun" you think talking about payback strike. Stun as combo primer (when upgraded) is only when target has taunted status, so in this build it won't work.

Also I want to remind some info about payback strike and in general usefulness of its upgrade.


taken from http://forum.bioware...mbat-mechanics/
 

Payback Strike:
1. Hits all enemies in a roughly 180-degree arc in front of the caster.
2. If not recently taken damage: deals 200% weapon damage to all targets.
3. If recently taken damage: deals 300% weapon damage to all targets and knocks them back.

Sweet Revenge (Upgrade)
[Mistake/Bug - Patch 4] Changes the damage output of Payback Strike to the following:
1. If not recently taken damage: ability_multiplier = 200%.
2. If recently taken damage: ability_multiplier = 200%; flat +100% to damage_multiplier.

and from my observations id pretty much works in that way in game.

final_damage = (base_damage)
* (ability_multiplier)
* (1 + critical_damage_bonus + flanking_bonus)
* (1 + attack_bonus + damage_multiplier + type_bonus)

formula for damage, now let ignore crit part because it's the same in both upgraded and non upgraded versions

non upgraded= base_damage
* (3)* (1 + attack_bonus)
upgraded = base_damage
* (2)* (1 + attack_bonus + 1)

At attack bonus = 0 upgrades gives 1/3 damage boost
So when attack_bonus = 1 (100%) damage is the same.
at attack bonus = 2 non upgrade version hits for 12% more...

[TheThirdRace]

I don't know about what form of "stun" you think talking about payback strike. Stun as combo primer (when upgraded) is only when target has taunted status, so in this build it won't work.

Hmmm... I didn't think of "Stun" as a combo primer, I meant it in a more general sense. Enemies that don't get knockback usually get "staggered" about 1 second before they start doing something again. That's what I'm talking about, not the combo primer.

It wouldn't surprise me if Payback Strike upgrade would "stuns" the enemy without discrimination, but only apply the status as a combo primer when it's taunted. It wouldn't be the first time a tooltip is straight up lying...

Also I want to remind some info about payback strike and in general usefulness of its upgrade.


taken from http://forum.bioware...mbat-mechanics/
 

and from my observations id pretty much works in that way in game.

final_damage = (base_damage)
* (ability_multiplier)
* (1 + critical_damage_bonus + flanking_bonus)
* (1 + attack_bonus + damage_multiplier + type_bonus)

formula for damage, now let ignore crit part because it's the same in both upgraded and non upgraded versions

non upgraded= base_damage
* (3)* (1 + attack_bonus)
upgraded = base_damage
* (2)* (1 + attack_bonus + 1)

At attack bonus = 0 upgrades gives 1/3 damage boost
So when attack_bonus = 1 (100%) damage is the same.
at attack bonus = 2 non upgrade version hits for 12% more...

That's something I forgot about and you bring a very good reminder, thanks!

That would mean that if you have less than 100% Attack, you'd be wise to take the upgrade. If you have 101% attack or more, it would be better not to take that upgrade.

I'll have to test if the "stagger" effect is still there without the upgrade, it would be a shame to lose it since you use Payback Strike a lot more for the crowd control than for damage...

Since I have the promotions and equipment to get past 100% attack (98% at level 1), you might have found me a shiny new skill point to spend elsewhere! Thanks!

[T_elic]

Tried it out this weekend. Was already playing a somewhat offensive dwarf, but ran it with Walking fortress instead of payback strike. Have to say that, odly enough, swapping WF for Payback strike makes the dwarf much more survivable. Being able to knock down all enemies in front of you every 8 seconds works much better on perilous then being invincible for a couple of seconds every 24 seconds. Plus, scoring top spot with a dwarf on perilous is nice.

[konny]

Nice build! Replaced Shield Wall with To The Death, but that's it.

 

Finished a perilous game vs demons with it after getting used to it on threatening earlier. Some AW and that flying dwarf were left after the reaver and necro perma-faded in every zone right from the beginning. Face tanking DC with TTD while firing SB/L&S whenever available worked well.

I would always keep Payback Strike for recovery, no matter whether offensive or defensive build. I would skip the upgrade though.

[Jaden Erius]

i've tried the offensive lego build myself and I personally prefer taking shield bash, lunge and slash, unbowed and walking fortress. Payback strike is good and could be swapped for one of the defensives but the extra guard and walking fortress bat **** crazy offense mode is pretty nice and allows you to still tank well with 2 CC breakers and 2 high damage output abilities. A good balance, makes the lego similar to an AW warrior (albeit melee) playstyle.