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[melkathi]

Wynne and the Spirit  (if this means nothing to you, then the following is a spoiler)


What we know is that Wynne was seeing the light at the end of the tunnel and that it was not a train.
Wynne claims that it was a benevolent spirit that saved her, perhaps a Spirit of Faith.
Now on the forum I have repeatedly seen people claim that Wynne has been possessed by a Pride Demon. Usually these claims are in the form of one-sentence-posts and never come with any proof.
While a pride demon could make sense in a way: if one was to assume it is pride that makes Wynne believe she has a special connection to spirits, that a spirit would have been watching over her all her life and eventually save her. It could even be seen as a cunning plot by a pride demon to stay close to a mage throughout their life, protecting her to cultivate the feeling of pride and feed of it and only when the mage is about to die, slip into the body. But, what would not make sense with such a theory is the demon not taking over the weakened Wynne.

What my real question is though:
Do we have anything official from Sheryl Chee about the nature of the spirit? The people saying "Wynne is a pride demon" seem so sure of truth in what they type, I have been wondering if there is any official proof.


(Sheryl, you know you should feel free to chip in   Anyway, it would be nice to know for anyone who might in the future add Wynne content through a mod)

Modifié par melkathi, 27 janvier 2010 - 01:55 .

[SusanStoHelit]

I haven't seen anything from a writer - and no evidence for such claims. It seems highly unlikely that it is anything but a 'good' spirit. I base this partly on the fact that the spirit didn't take over her body, partly on the basis of Wynne's actions (as compared to Connor's), and partly on her ability (Vessel of the Spirit) and its effects.

[melkathi]

That's pretty much how I feel.

I could be convinced that a very intelligent, devious, cautious demon could show so much patience, but it would take a lot of extremely well written dialogue to do so.

The ability though, as you pointed out, seems to very clearly point to a benevolent spirit just as Wynne descibes it.

[ReubenLiew]

Clearly it has to be a Desire Daemon.

Those magical bosoms are proof!

[Realmzmaster]

The spirit is a good spirit. The spirit stop Wynne from dying by bonding with Wynne. The spirit is now trapped within Wynne and itself is fading as Wynne states. No pride demon is going to enter a corpse or dying individual willingly.

The vast majority of undead are weaker demons who entered corpses and went insane. The reason that demons enter a living person is to experience life through that person's eyes or to wreck mayhem. The spirit in Wynne sought to do none of these things. It wanted to save here and was interested in her life.

[Riona45]

Besides, does Wynne even have that much pride? I never got the impression that she thought of herself as "special."

[Maximus741000]

Wynne a demon??!!

I think I'm gonna be sick at the concept...*leaves PC....returns* Anyway, seriously, if she was possessed by a pride demon she would have either joined Uldred, or fought him in her alleged demon form, or better yet used it to fight the darkspawn with, then conquer the world. But sicne that is not the case, I think the case is rested before it even started.

[Creature 1]

Riona45 wrote...

Besides, does Wynne even have that much pride? I never got the impression that she thought of herself as "special."

Her opinion is special enough that she has to share it with you multiple times whether you want to hear it or not. 

[Gold Dragon]

Besides, Wynne has had free will during the game, and I doubt that any Pride Demon would bow THAT much to a mere mortal, regardless of how powerful.

[Riona45]

Creature 1 wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

Besides, does Wynne even have that much pride? I never got the impression that she thought of herself as "special."

Her opinion is special enough that she has to share it with you multiple times whether you want to hear it or not. 

She can be self-depreciating though, and unlike some other companions you can openly disagree with her and not lose any influence for it.  I even remember a line you can say like "Would you hate me if I said everything you just told me was rubbish?" and she kind of laughs it off saying no, she wouldn't--and you don't get any disapproval from her.

[verrall20]

The whole concept is a little silly isn't it. Think harder people.

[MonkeyChief117]

Isn't this what happened to Gandalf in LotR - you know when he becomes Gandalf the White. I thought it was just a homage to that.

[melkathi]

Well glad to hear everyone disagrees with the pride demon thing.

Just saw it mentioned a few times and thought, what the Fade, let's ask.

[Pacothetaco2]

well it is possible that a demon has been with her, and all mages since they have passed the harrowing, the demon states"keeps your wits about you mage true tests never end" then he dissapears. it is possible that, that demon stays with you, it couldnt be a pride demon because a demon entering a living mage would become an abomination, only a pride demon entering a dead mage would it become an arcane horror, not by wish because it wants to catpture a live mage but demons cannot tell the diffrence. if the demon was with wynne it would of corrupted her by now.

it could be a good spirit, but then it could also be a desire demon. because if wynne lets this "spirit" live in her, she is not defending against entraces from the vail to her. so this good "spirit" could be a desire demon tricking wynne. she desires power or goodness or feeling special....either way its her desire and this demon is fuffilling it. and this demon has choosen to live in wynne and not cause mayhem, i don't know why. if their is anything wrong with what i said correct me please.

[SusanStoHelit]

Pacothetaco2 wrote...

well it is possible that a demon has been with her, and all mages since they have passed the harrowing, the demon states"keeps your wits about you mage true tests never end" then he dissapears. it is possible that, that demon stays with you, it couldnt be a pride demon because a demon entering a living mage would become an abomination, only a pride demon entering a dead mage would it become an arcane horror, not by wish because it wants to catpture a live mage but demons cannot tell the diffrence. if the demon was with wynne it would of corrupted her by now.
it could be a good spirit, but then it could also be a desire demon. because if wynne lets this "spirit" live in her, she is not defending against entraces from the vail to her. so this good "spirit" could be a desire demon tricking wynne. she desires power or goodness or feeling special....either way its her desire and this demon is fuffilling it. and this demon has choosen to live in wynne and not cause mayhem, i don't know why. if their is anything wrong with what i said correct me please.

Your post is illogical. You state that it couldn't be a demon because "it would of corrupted her by now" and "a demon entering a living mage would become an abomination". And you also state that it is possible that "a demon has been with her, and all mages since they have passed the harrowing" and "could be a desire demon tricking Wynne". These are mutually contradictory statements.

So either your grasp of logic is poor, or you're unable to frame a coherent argument, or you phrased what you were trying to say poorly. I'm not sure which.

[melkathi]

SusanStoHelit wrote...


So either your grasp of logic is poor, or you're unable to frame a coherent argument, or you phrased what you were trying to say poorly. I'm not sure which.

Susan are you fealing ok?
Last thread you were the one telling us not to be mean to people :innocent:

[ejoslin]

Riona45 wrote...

Besides, does Wynne even have that much pride? I never got the impression that she thought of herself as "special."

Wynne is the most sanctimonious, judgemental companion you can have.  There are times that I wish <slap her> was an option.  Wynne is of the opinion that her point of view is the only one that is right and believes herself to be unquestionable.

Heh, I'm still mad at her over what she said at the gauntlet to my city elf.  Her standard comments are SO bad normally, but in that circumstance, just terrible.  *grin* She doesn't like my PC much this game, but at least she's not going to try to kill my warden, though go against her in a couple of circumstances, she'll gladly try to kill Ferelden's only hope.  

Nope, nope, I don't like Wynne!  Abomination that she is!

[KariTR]

ejoslin wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

Besides, does Wynne even have that much pride? I never got the impression that she thought of herself as "special."

Wynne is the most sanctimonious, judgemental companion you can have.  There are times that I wish was an option.  Wynne is of the opinion that her point of view is the only one that is right and believes herself to be unquestionable.

Agree. Ive never met a woman so full of herself either, always patting herself on the back

Poor Wynne, she does survive well. I give her that

[Riona45]

ejoslin wrote...


Wynne is the most sanctimonious, judgemental companion you can have.  There are times that I wish was an option.  Wynne is of the opinion that her point of view is the only one that is right and believes herself to be unquestionable.

Obviously I disagree and did not get that impression. *shrug*

Heh, I'm still mad at her over what she said at the gauntlet to my city elf.  

What would that be?

[ejoslin]

Riona45 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...


Wynne is the most sanctimonious, judgemental companion you can have.  There are times that I wish was an option.  Wynne is of the opinion that her point of view is the only one that is right and believes herself to be unquestionable.

Obviously I disagree and did not get that impression. *shrug*

Heh, I'm still mad at her over what she said at the gauntlet to my city elf.  

What would that be?

Hmmm, city elf origin.  You and your friends are kidnapped by the Arl's son.  You are locked in a room, your friends who were kidnapped with you are taken away.  Your cousin manages to get to you, slides you a sword, and you end up having to kill your way through the castle.  You see your fiance cut down in front of you.  You continue going, fighting, just doing your best to get to your friends.  But you're too late, despite everything, and your cousin is already raped.  I chose in my origin to step forward and take the blame completely for the deaths.  

You get to the guantlet, and the guardian asks his usual question -- did you fail Shianni.  Well, my first response was, No, Vaughn was the villain.  Wynne pipes up, "It's hard to know how your actions really have an effect on the outcome," like there was something else the PC could have done.  So I reload and say, "Well, I guess I could have run faster," despite, of course, having to fight all the way there.  To which Wynne replies, "You need to accept your failings."  The PC did nothing wrong, at all, yet Wynne, who had asked for and gotten the story, still had to be extremely sanctimonious at that point.

Of course, she says those things no matter what, which is why she normally sits at camp during that quest.  It's beyond obnoxious.  And quite funny, actually.  I wish the Guardian had brought up Aineiran to her instead of the fact that she basically spouts platitudes.  Of course, maybe that was the point -- but if it were, it was lost on her.

[Riona45]

ejoslin wrote...
Of course, she says those things no matter what, which is why she normally sits at camp during that quest. 

I was about to mention that.  I was asked if I failed Jowan (mage origin).  I said no, and Wynne said the "It's hard to know..." line.  I never interpreted that as being sanctimonious.

[melkathi]

She has those standard lines she uses. With the mage it didn't seem so bad, but with a city elf Wynne really crosses the line.

[ejoslin]

Riona45 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Of course, she says those things no matter what, which is why she normally sits at camp during that quest. 

I was about to mention that.  I was asked if I failed Jowan (mage origin).  I said no, and Wynne said the "It's hard to know..." line.  I never interpreted that as being sanctimonious.

It's an awful comment in the city elf origin.  Heh, my city elf even begged Vaughn just to take her, and leave everyone else.  It's really bad for the human noble one as well.  The mage origin is the only one where it ISN'T a  horribly unfair comment because you had choices.  Not that any affected the outcome, but I can see it raising doubts about the choices you made.

Then again, one of the funniest comments you can give Wynne is when she's finally telling you about Ainairen and you say to her, "And all this time I thought you were perfect."  She is one of the few people who would accept that at face value and feel the need to assure you that she really isn't perfect.

Edit: Her relationship advice is enough to make me not like her, though.  Wow, unless you suck up to her totally, she is really awful there as well.  And yes, I know she apologizes later, but that she would even feel she had a right to say such a thing . ..  Next time,  I swear, she's staying in the circle . . .

Modifié par ejoslin, 27 janvier 2010 - 11:44 .

[SusanStoHelit]

Wow, that's really bad. My female city elf did the same (begged Vaughan to just take her) but she's still at Ostagar. That's an example of really poor writing actually. One of the few - the only other I can think of is when hardening Alistair you have to choose an option saying everyone (really, everyone in the entire multiverse? what a crock full of ...) is out for themselves - and that's just not in the same class.

[melkathi]

Did we just give birth to the first "I hate Wynne" thread?

What a refreshing change from the Alistair/Loghain hate!

It's an honor to have this hosted in a thread of mine.


Wynne really makes you wish you could reply to more of those interuptions. Once my city elf (who acted the same was as everyone else's in this thread) gets to that point, she'll really want to kick Wynne until she has turned at least ten shades of blue from beating.