1396 réponses à ce sujet

[Jayelet]

nuculerman wrote...

It's funny, because I can never bring myself to play an evil character in RPGs. Never. Yet, in DAO, I'm almost always running with an "evil" party because I can't stand any of the the "good" characters. Allistair is a whiny hypocrite, Lelianna is a super gullible religious psycho, and Wynne is just indescribable.

You described the characters 'good' just as I define it.
If definitely my characters in Dragon Age, are "bad" I love Zevran, I like Sten, Shale, Morrigan even Orghrem.

Definitely hate
Alistair by hypocrites and liars, to Wynne better not put what I think of it, by hypocritical and sanctimonious Leliana

[Sabriana]

Imo, none of the companion NPCs are bad. They are all flawed, true, and that makes for good RPGing. There is no 'evil' NPC in the black and white interpretations. Heck, one of the NPCs, who'd make a perfectly D&D style 'evil' character, turns out to be the most compassionate, pleading for the lives of more than one group of NPCs. He is also the most loyal friend of the bunch, and the only one who declares a willingness to die for the Warden. I'm speaking of course, of Zevran.

Wynne is highly annoying, and easily dislikable. She is also very selfish, and out to fulfill her own agenda. She goes so far as to tell the Warden "I hope the darkspawn gets you." Now that is far better definition of 'evil', than the raging psychopath a la Bishop of NWN2 fame.



@ Melkathi

That goes for the HN too. She was trained as a warrior/rogue, lived in a political and noble family, had a good education, and was good enough to be left in charge of the Teyrnie by her mother and her father.

Although her upbringing was most likely less volatile than the Aeducan Noble, she does know her way around. Add to that, my HNFs are all around 26 - 27 years old. Hardly wet behind the ears, snot-nosed teenagers.

[Jayelet]

On that we agree with Sabrina.
I like the characters from Dragon Age to the structured D&D I seem much more real.
I played a lot of D&D.

My characters can easily send to hell most of his peers, there is only one exception Zevran

Modifié par Jayelet, 24 février 2010 - 01:04 .

[melkathi]

Sabriana wrote...


@ Melkathi
That goes for the HN too. She was trained as a warrior/rogue, lived in a political and noble family, had a good education, and was good enough to be left in charge of the Teyrnie by her mother and her father.
Although her upbringing was most likely less volatile than the Aeducan Noble, she does know her way around. Add to that, my HNFs are all around 26 - 27 years old. Hardly wet behind the ears, snot-nosed teenagers.

Human noble origin...
My human noble was beloved by the people of Highever. Other nobles were trying to get her to marry their sons. Her parents trusted her with stewardship of the teyrnir in her father's and brother's absence. She has a mabari hound, one of the greatest status symbols of worth in Ferelden.
AND Duncan came to Highever to recruit her. He didn't stumble across her handling a really bad situation, as he did with the casteless or city elf. He did not find her already tainted but with such a strong immune system that was already fighting the taint better than most people's. No, he came to Highever with the hope of recruitng her, without ever having met her, because her reputation apparently was enough to warrant  the Warden Commander to travel there to meet her.
And then, if you don't play nice, wide-eyed, hero-worshipping apprentice to Wynne, you are a spoiled child...

[ejoslin]

No, I agree that none of the companions are evil. Morrigan is selfish, but not evil. Zevran is pragmatic, but compassionate. Sten is a good soldier, and that's all he is. Oghren definitely is not -- he's just a man who is haunted.

I don't think any of the companions are truly good, either, except Alistair, who is good to everyone but himself. Leliana is hiding behind her religion, and lies a lot as well (she at the gauntlet is so illuminating). Wynne is prideful and arrogant, though soft spoken about it. Ok, Dog is good. He's a VERY good boy!

Edit: I tend to think the main problem with Wynne is the Warden's dialog choices as well.  You can either be a complete suck up or rude -- there's rarely choices in between those two.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 24 février 2010 - 01:08 .

[melkathi]

ejoslin wrote...

Morrigan is selfish, but not evil.

You forgot to add: insecure

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: I tend to think the main problem with Wynne is the Warden's dialog choices as well.  You can either be a complete suck up or rude -- there's rarely choices in between those two.  

Agreed. There is no companion besides Wynne where your options are so limited.

[Sabriana]

Melkathi wrote wise things...

And then, if you don't play nice, wide-eyed, hero-worshipping apprentice to Wynne, you are a spoiled child...

That's it. Exactly. Nail-head meet hammer, hammer meet nail-head.



Oh, that's fun, Melkathi. Let's try other Origins.

City Elf: Mother died, but taught her fighting styles, raised by dad in what is for all intends and purposes a slum. Treated like 2nd rate citizen by all, especially by the Arl of Denerim and his atrocious off-spring.

At wedding day, she is forcibly abducted to be used as a 'thing', a toy. Sees her friend get slaughtered, her cousin is raped, her fiancee is murdered.

She battles her way through the castle, successfully with only one ally. The recruitment by Duncan could've played out a lot of ways, one of which is that she is promised to be taken to the dalish, but that was a lie.

Here comes Wynne with her hero-worship and her superiority complex. To make things worse, she's human. Yeah, the CE will surely appreciate that.



@ Jayelet

Yeah, it seems D&D got worse and worse. I finally couldn't stand it any longer. I haven't played any D&D for a long time now.

[ejoslin]

There is a Wynne dialog that I rarely trigger, and I'm wondering if anyone else has seen it, and if so, do they know what triggers it. It's not a mage thing, that's ALL I know.



It happens after the Landsmeet is over and someone is declared ruler. Wynne, when clicked on, will have a talk with the warden, mentioning that everything is quickly coming to a head, and also says that she forgets at times how young the warden actually is. I remember it as being a positive conversation, but it wasn't necessarily one -- i just don't remember it well enough.

[melkathi]

ejoslin wrote...

There is a Wynne dialog that I rarely trigger, and I'm wondering if anyone else has seen it, and if so, do they know what triggers it. It's not a mage thing, that's ALL I know.

It happens after the Landsmeet is over and someone is declared ruler. Wynne, when clicked on, will have a talk with the warden, mentioning that everything is quickly coming to a head, and also says that she forgets at times how young the warden actually is. I remember it as being a positive conversation, but it wasn't necessarily one -- i just don't remember it well enough.

I only got it on my first playthrough.
Will see if I can get it this time round.

Though I'd assume cuddlezarro has wynnshots of the convo

[ejoslin]

I will as well. I wonder if it has to do with Anora being made solo queen? I usually make Alistair king, sometimes married. Hmmmmm. I'll have to test that.

[melkathi]

ejoslin wrote...

I will as well. I wonder if it has to do with Anora being made solo queen? I usually make Alistair king, sometimes married. Hmmmmm. I'll have to test that.

I remember getting it when I married Alistair to Anora while a HFN myself. Didn't get it when I made Alistair solo king with me a mage. Didn't get it while having Alistair marry Anora while being dalish.

[maxernst]

ejoslin wrote...

I will as well. I wonder if it has to do with Anora being made solo queen? I usually make Alistair king, sometimes married. Hmmmmm. I'll have to test that.

I made Anora solo queen and I don't recall seeing that Wynne conversation.

Another Wynne related question...I noticed earlier in the thread something about Wynne going to Tevinter after the game is over.  What controls where she goes after the Blight?  In my game, she's going to be Anora's court mage.

[Addai]

Kryyptehk wrote...

Allerleihrau wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...
Ah, I think you'll get that only if you play a non-mage. At least, my mage characters have never gotten it (they avoid her at Ostagar.) Thanks for that - do you get that when you first meet her in the Tower?

Yes, non-mages only. You can get it if you talk to her at any time during your journey through the tower, but not in the first encounter. If Alistair is in the party he will chime in as well.

What does she say to mages? I haven't played a mage that talked to her at all since my first character. Of course, I was terrified that I'd lose my healer if she tried to confront me about me being a Blood Mage, so I gave her a few gifts and left her alone.

Now Morrigan is my healer so I couldn't care less

She asks you why you have returned to the Circle.  Nothing too exciting, except you do get to jerk her chain about how much you hate the place.  If you tell her you want it to burn or agree with Morrigan that the mages are hopeless and deserve a mercy killing, however, it provokes a fight.  Wherein Wynne somehow acquires spells that she doesn't have if you recruit her- old bag threw a Crushing Prison on me!  As Alistair would say, "oh you'll pay for that."  I'll see you your Crushing Prison and raise you a templar dwarf plus Blood Wound, you pathetic Chantry tool!
Yes, I let out a little steam on that battle.   

Modifié par Addai67, 24 février 2010 - 04:07 .

[ejoslin]

maxernst wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

I will as well. I wonder if it has to do with Anora being made solo queen? I usually make Alistair king, sometimes married. Hmmmmm. I'll have to test that.

I made Anora solo queen and I don't recall seeing that Wynne conversation.

Another Wynne related question...I noticed earlier in the thread something about Wynne going to Tevinter after the game is over.  What controls where she goes after the Blight?  In my game, she's going to be Anora's court mage.

If you do both her and Shale's personal quests, she goes to Tevinter.  If you do just hers, she joins the royal court.  If you don't do hers, she returns to the circle.

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...
If you do both her and Shale's personal quests, she goes to Tevinter.  If you do just hers, she joins the royal court.  If you don't do hers, she returns to the circle.

Not sure if by "just hers," you meant just Shale's or just Wynne's?  My HNF did Shale's quest but not Wynne's and got stuck with her as court mage. 

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
If you do both her and Shale's personal quests, she goes to Tevinter.  If you do just hers, she joins the royal court.  If you don't do hers, she returns to the circle.

Not sure if by "just hers," you meant just Shale's or just Wynne's?  My HNF did Shale's quest but not Wynne's and got stuck with her as court mage. 

Sorry, I thought the context was clear -- if you do just Wynne's personal quest but not Shale's, she joins the court.

Modifié par ejoslin, 24 février 2010 - 05:11 .

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
If you do both her and Shale's personal quests, she goes to Tevinter.  If you do just hers, she joins the royal court.  If you don't do hers, she returns to the circle.

Not sure if by "just hers," you meant just Shale's or just Wynne's?  My HNF did Shale's quest but not Wynne's and got stuck with her as court mage. 

Sorry, I thought the context was clear -- if you do just Wynne's personal quest but not Shale's, she joins the court.

However, with my game it was the other way 'round.  I did Shale's quest, but didn't do Wynne's, thinking she'd be shuttled off back to the Tower.  That's why my mouth was hanging open when she declared that she was staying on as the court mage (my character's was, too, for Return to Ostagar reasons!).

Modifié par Addai67, 24 février 2010 - 08:30 .

[Reaverwind]

Addai67 wrote...

She asks you why you have returned to the Circle.  Nothing too exciting, except you do get to jerk her chain about how much you hate the place.  If you tell her you want it to burn or agree with Morrigan that the mages are hopeless and deserve a mercy killing, however, it provokes a fight.  Wherein Wynne somehow acquires spells that she doesn't have if you recruit her- old bag threw a Crushing Prison on me!  As Alistair would say, "oh you'll pay for that."  I'll see you your Crushing Prison and raise you a templar dwarf plus Blood Wound, you pathetic Chantry tool!
Yes, I let out a little steam on that battle.   

On my last mage playthrough, I loved telling her that the Circle should be annulled, then when she asked why I'd murder my fellow mages, I told her I had no obligation to the Circle. Just call me templar-mage, hehe.

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
If you do both her and Shale's personal quests, she goes to Tevinter.  If you do just hers, she joins the royal court.  If you don't do hers, she returns to the circle.

Not sure if by "just hers," you meant just Shale's or just Wynne's?  My HNF did Shale's quest but not Wynne's and got stuck with her as court mage. 

Sorry, I thought the context was clear -- if you do just Wynne's personal quest but not Shale's, she joins the court.

However, with my game it was the other way 'round.  I did Shale's quest, but didn't do Wynne's, thinking she'd be shuttled off back to the Tower.  That's why my mouth was hanging open when she declared that she was staying on as the court mage (my character's was, too, for Return to Ostagar reasons!).

Hmmmm, I swear I had her returning to the circle, and helping rebuild it.  I could be wrong.  It does all start to blend together.

[Cuddlezarro]

iv never had Wynn return to the circle



Iv only ever had her stick on as court mage once, every other game she ended up dead or on the way to tevinter

[maxernst]

ejoslin wrote...

maxernst wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

I will as well. I wonder if it has to do with Anora being made solo queen? I usually make Alistair king, sometimes married. Hmmmmm. I'll have to test that.

I made Anora solo queen and I don't recall seeing that Wynne conversation.

Another Wynne related question...I noticed earlier in the thread something about Wynne going to Tevinter after the game is over.  What controls where she goes after the Blight?  In my game, she's going to be Anora's court mage.

If you do both her and Shale's personal quests, she goes to Tevinter.  If you do just hers, she joins the royal court.  If you don't do hers, she returns to the circle.

That's interesting.  The fact that seeing Aneirim makes her choose the royal court (where she says she's going to work for more freedom for mages) over the Circle suggests that he does get through to her.

[Sabriana]

Being a member of the royal court gives her much freedom, makes her a "somebody" (I am the adviser of the King and the Queen, etc), and it saves her from returning to the tower.

As for the freedom for the mages, Wynne says a lot of things that don't hold up under the x-ray eyes of reality.

[melkathi]

Best ending for Wynne?

Have her accompany Shale and hide bags of birdseed among her things, in such a way of course that it will start spilling on the way.



And when Shale notices her traveling companion is feeding birds during their journey...

Let's see her talk herself out of that.

[mousestalker]

The problem with Wynne being court mage is that there aren't any epilogues with children. Wynne would be great as court mage/nanny. For all her flaws, I would trust her completely with my children. And if she ever really started being grating, I'd just encourage the little ones to ask her about griffons.

[Cuddlezarro]

if Wynn as court mage got stuck as my and Anoras(or my mistress's) child I would so totally encourage the tyke to drive her up the wall by trying to make him obsessed with Griffons as well :3