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[knittzu]

Thank you very much for that. I can't even bring myself to click the "mean" responses to Alistair; I just feel dirty. And mean. And evil. Good thing people like you have the guts that I lack.

[ejoslin]

knittzu wrote...

Thank you very much for that. I can't even bring myself to click the "mean" responses to Alistair; I just feel dirty. And mean. And evil. Good thing people like you have the guts that I lack.

You want to feel like a piece of dog crap on your shoe . ..  Break up with Zevran after he offers the earring the second time, by when asking him if it was a proposal, following it up with "That's too much."  Then, well, tell him you don't see why it has to end.  Then don't use the persuade checks when he wants to leave, so he will leave, with the sweetest, gentlest comment you can imagine.

Trust me, if you can get through that without hitting the esc  key, you can get through anything regarding Alistair.

Modifié par ejoslin, 26 février 2010 - 02:35 .

[Vicious]

This is an epic thread.

[Cuddlezarro]

ejoslin wrote...

CZ, you're evil!

Slander and lies!

[Reaverwind]

knittzu wrote...

Oh, it is so good to have found my people! I can not *stand* Wynne. She's the only character in the game that I really hate, including the drunk and the mass-murderers. It didn't start as hate, mind you. My first PC was a young, naive mage who didn't have a mother and looked to Wynne for advice. It made perfect sense to me that she'd listen to the old bat, even if I found her annoying as hell.

My second character was a human noble who had, until very recently, had parents that she loved dearly. And a Nan. And even a religious instructor... so really, she had no use for Wynne's lectures and preaching. She certainly didn't need reminders of her duty to the people -- she'd been raised as a nobel, for Maker's sake, and certainly understood about noblesse oblige. I found myself getting more and more irritated that even when I picked the conversation options saying yes, I get it, I know that... it still triggered the same demeaning, listen-up-child lectures. Even so, my PC was raised correctly and was polite to the old ***** regardless... until I mis-clicked a responce and the old bat blew her top! Over nothing, really, and my PC had an approval in the 90s with her, and suddenly she was being insulted and berated like a naughty five-year-old. I was still reeling from that when I got her incredibly nasty lecture about Zevran, and that did it. HATE!

I completely agree with the posters who point out that the more you play with her, the more you dislike her. She's exactly the opposite of the other characters, most of whom grow on you as the game progresses and you do more playthroughs. Wynne, on the other hand -- at this point I just kill her immediately or permanently park her in camp and save myself the aggravation.

Wow - my slide into Wynne-hate is almost the opposite. I started out with a noble, who liked her and didn't mind her lectures too much. Then, I played through with a mage, and found myself growing increasingly disgusted with her Circle-before-everything-else mentality. That, coupled with her overly romantic notions on wardens which she tried to ram down the real warden's throat every chance she had just got to be too much. I've got key saves where I can try out different dialogue options, and boy does her hypocrisy shine through. She's right on board with sparing maleficarum (dialogue option with Cullen), unless, of course, that "maleficar" happens to be your PC blood mage who just saved everyone's asses at the Tower.

[Cuddlezarro]

funny thing about my Wynn hatred...iv never liked her



unlike every one elses "I liked her at first..." thing shes never done anything for me that found her interesting she got a resounding MEH



then of coarse I used her as my healer for a playthrough and well never again





Leliena however I easily fall into the "liked at first..." catagory

[knittzu]

Oh, ejoslin, I just can't. I know how silly it sounds -- they are pixelated character in a make-believe world, but I just can't bring myself to hurt my beloved characters. It actually took me three -- three! -- runs with three different characters before I was able to harder Alistair (the game play of which is counter-intuitive and sucky but that's a whole different topic.)

[ejoslin]

knittzu wrote...

Oh, ejoslin, I just can't. I know how silly it sounds -- they are pixelated character in a make-believe world, but I just can't bring myself to hurt my beloved characters. It actually took me three -- three! -- runs with three different characters before I was able to harder Alistair (the game play of which is counter-intuitive and sucky but that's a whole different topic.)

It is so awful, it's beyond awful.  I bow down to Jon Curry -- it is the absolute worst moment in the game.  The voice acting, the facial expressions . . .  it's like taking someone's soul and shredding it to little bits.  Even though I reloaded after doing that (both times, heh -- second time a few weeks after the first to confirm it really was that bad -- it was worse than I remembered), I was miserable for hours afterwards.

Today I had a moment with my hostile alistair HNF runthrough -- I wanted to see when Alistair WOULD marry a human noble (answer, -25 neutral).  Of course, 100 love with Zevran as is the norm in my games.  Got the "So, you heard about the queen of Ferelden" dialog, but instead of telling him I didn't see why it had to end, I choose, instead, "I'm sorry, Zevran."  His reaction is so sweet (no, no, don't be sorry.  I'm not), fully understanding why the warden would choose to be queen over staying with him and letting her know that he will kill Alistair if he's not good to her.  And he doesn't even ask to leave.  

Heh, I reloaded the game from before I raised up Alistair's approval with gifts and did the -100 hostile thing.  And I still feel a bit dirty for that whole selection.

Edit: To keep it about Wynne, she is pretty bad when Alistair does the ultimate sacrifice.  

After reminding her who ACTUALLY ended the blight by giving his life, this is the response I got.

Wynne: Dead heroes are all fine and well, I understand, but living heroes give the people something to gawk at.  And by something, I mean you.

Modifié par ejoslin, 26 février 2010 - 02:53 .

[Cuddlezarro]

Wynne: Dead heroes are all fine and well, I understand, but living heroes give the people something to gawk at. And by something, I mean you.

I try to forget that line its pretty freaking awful (then again so is every ones reactions to alistairs sacrifice)

so eh why hasnt any one made a slap wynn mod yet? if Morrigan can be slapped why cant the miserable old hag!

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 26 février 2010 - 02:56 .

[Reaverwind]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Wynne: Dead heroes are all fine and well, I understand, but living heroes give the people something to gawk at. And by something, I mean you.

I try to forget that line its pretty freaking awful (then again so is every ones reactions to alistairs sacrifice)

so eh why hasnt any one made a slap wynn mod yet? if Morrigan can be slapped why cant the miserable old hag!

We need a general-purpose b****-slap mod, period. As soon as Wynne gets preachy - *slap*. The moment Isolde opens her mouth - *slap*.

[Cuddlezarro]

The moment Isolde opens her mouth - *slap*.

[knittzu]

ejoslin wrote...
Wynne: Dead heroes are all fine and well, I understand, but living heroes give the people something to gawk at.  And by something, I mean you.

That is horrible, just horrible... but perfectly, absolutely Wynne.
The distancing language alone, yowzahs.  "Dead heroes"??  We're not talking about some ancient hero of lore, we're talking about your substitue son and my character's beloved friend/lover/companion.  You know, the guy we just spent months with, saving the world?  Ring a bell?  Arrrgh!

But I do love that she finally admits that in her world, you're just a thing.

[knittzu]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

I've seen some excellent posts about other characters, such as the one by David G. about Zevran, but nothing about Wynne. Has anyone else?

I have! (from the RtO wynn thread)

Do you have a link, by any chance?

[Cuddlezarro]

its the "Bothered with Party Banter Between Wynne and Alistair " thread which you already posted in

[Addai]

knittzu wrote...

Oh, it is so good to have found my people!

Welcome, sister. :happy:

And don't even get me started on the RtO content. It was so offensive and gross -- even more so as the old hag had *just* told my PC that she had to break up with Alistair because of blah-blah-blah-darkspawn-whatever. She was actually trying to push my mage out of the way so she could move in herself! Gross, and so typical of the self-serving hypocrite.

You may have seen me post this, but the exact same thing happened to me.  It was on an HNF run and by that time, my character and I were finding Wynne increasingly tedious.  BUT, the royal BF requested she come along to Ostagar and soooo, my Cousland obliged.  On the way there I got the dwarf random encounter and accidentally clicked on Wynne.  "You're quite taken with each other, aren't you? blah blah Alistair might get hurt blah blah."  HNF replied with strained politeness.  Then we get to Ostagar and as we're preparing to go bury Cailan when... WTF?!!

I'm not sure if the writers intended for her to be this despicable and toxic. It's something I've pondered with each playthrough -- sometimes I'm sure that it was all intentional, other time I think they intended her to be the PC's wise, sage adviser and just missed the mark completely. I've seen some excellent posts about other characters, such as the one by David G. about Zevran, but nothing about Wynne. Has anyone else?

I doubt that any character was meant to be completely noxious.  And to be fair, there are plenty of people who still consider Wynne a flawed but generally noble grandmotherly type and are pleased to see an older woman in a video game etc. etc.

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

Wynne: Dead heroes are all fine and well, I understand, but living heroes give the people something to gawk at.  And by something, I mean you.

That. is.  I don't even know... that is...

[karma_killer09]

addai67, your not alone, even from a guys point of veiw i cant stand being cruel to my team, any of them even morrigan who p***** me off constantly, this game is great at basically forcing you to have some kind of connection to every member regardless of how annoying, and bravo for the people that can play evil, you are far stronger than I....

[Reaverwind]

Addai67 wrote...

knittzu wrote...

Oh, it is so good to have found my people!

Welcome, sister. :happy:

And don't even get me started on the RtO content. It was so offensive and gross -- even more so as the old hag had *just* told my PC that she had to break up with Alistair because of blah-blah-blah-darkspawn-whatever. She was actually trying to push my mage out of the way so she could move in herself! Gross, and so typical of the self-serving hypocrite.

You may have seen me post this, but the exact same thing happened to me.  It was on an HNF run and by that time, my character and I were finding Wynne increasingly tedious.  BUT, the royal BF requested she come along to Ostagar and soooo, my Cousland obliged.  On the way there I got the dwarf random encounter and accidentally clicked on Wynne.  "You're quite taken with each other, aren't you? blah blah Alistair might get hurt blah blah."  HNF replied with strained politeness.  Then we get to Ostagar and as we're preparing to go bury Cailan when... WTF?!!

I'm not sure if the writers intended for her to be this despicable and toxic. It's something I've pondered with each playthrough -- sometimes I'm sure that it was all intentional, other time I think they intended her to be the PC's wise, sage adviser and just missed the mark completely. I've seen some excellent posts about other characters, such as the one by David G. about Zevran, but nothing about Wynne. Has anyone else?

I doubt that any character was meant to be completely noxious.  And to be fair, there are plenty of people who still consider Wynne a flawed but generally noble grandmotherly type and are pleased to see an older woman in a video game etc. etc.

A lot of the problem with Wynne are the PC responses. You can speak to her as a simpering sycophant or as a rude prat. There's very little in between, and that gets really annoying when you're dealing with "wise" Wynne's hopeless naivite about the wardens, or when you're trying to explain that for a warden-mage, Circle interests aren't part of the job.

Modifié par Reaverwind, 26 février 2010 - 04:15 .

[knittzu]

Cuddlezarro wrote...
its the "Bothered with Party Banter Between Wynne and Alistair " thread which you already posted in

Someone in that thread gave info about RtO not being written by the original writers (which is painfully obvious) but I haven't seen anything posted by any of the DA:O writers discussing their take on Wynne's character and their intentions with it.

I agree that a lot of the problem with her is that there's no middle ground in your responses to her "wisdom."  You're never given a chance to relate to her as an equal and that grows increasingly more frustrating as the game progresses, especially if you're playing an older character such as the dwarven noble.  Why on earth would a PC who was in line for the throne simper and stroke Wynne's bloated ego?  It's maddening.

[Sabriana]

I don't own RtO, I have no desire to purchase it at all, but someone mentioned that the people who made it actually put the credits in the codex. Mind boggling in itself - bye, bye, fourth wall.

I wonder if it lists who wrote what. I would be interested in seeing who actually wrote the dialogues. There can't be too many, because I watched a play-through and no one other than Alistair and Wynne had much to say.

Other than pulling Zevran, Alistair, and someone else (can't remember who) OOC that is. I couldn't believe my ears and eyes when Zevran went -3 for no reason at all, and Alistair didn't even react to the weapons or the chalice even.



Knittzu, aren't you the famed author of "Jesus with the combat?" I never laughed so hard in my life. Congrats on your quick wit.

[Cuddlezarro]

Sabriana they did the the credits for RtO in the codex



also you should look up Loghain and Wynns run through of RtO on youtubes(it does exist) its much better than Alistair and Wynns sexy time conversation

[Kryyptehk]

knittzu wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Wynne: Dead heroes are all fine and well, I understand, but living heroes give the people something to gawk at.  And by something, I mean you.

That is horrible, just horrible... but perfectly, absolutely Wynne.
The distancing language alone, yowzahs.  "Dead heroes"??  We're not talking about some ancient hero of lore, we're talking about your substitue son and my character's beloved friend/lover/companion.  You know, the guy we just spent months with, saving the world?  Ring a bell?  Arrrgh!

But I do love that she finally admits that in her world, you're just a thing.

edit: Okay, nevermind, I didn't understand your post lol

I can't believe that she doesn't act sad at all that Alistair dies. Seriously. I've never sacrificed Alistair (not that I ever could ). Guess we know just how much she cares about someone she said was like her son.

Modifié par Kryyptehk, 26 février 2010 - 08:13 .

[Sabriana]

Ohh. No, I didn't. Thanks for the heads-up, CZ.

I'll mosey on over there and try to find it. I watched it on YouTube where the player had Wynne, Alistair, and your favorite ally (I'll be kind and only mention that the name started with an 'L') with him/her, and a friend who had Alistair, Wynne and Zevran (who didn't say a word at all, just the mysterious -3, which is completely OOC)



*Puts on hat and wanders over to YouTube*

[Cuddlezarro]

Kryyptehk wrote...

knittzu wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Wynne: Dead heroes are all fine and well, I understand, but living heroes give the people something to gawk at.  And by something, I mean you.

That is horrible, just horrible... but perfectly, absolutely Wynne.
The distancing language alone, yowzahs.  "Dead heroes"??  We're not talking about some ancient hero of lore, we're talking about your substitue son and my character's beloved friend/lover/companion.  You know, the guy we just spent months with, saving the world?  Ring a bell?  Arrrgh!

But I do love that she finally admits that in her world, you're just a thing.

When does she say that? I'll admit that usually I play people who are nice to her (Maker spit on my terrible need to roleplay my character <_<) so I've never gotten that dialogue.

you get that line if Alistair sacrifices himself to kill the archdemon during the post corronation scene

[_- Songlian -]

Sabriana wrote...
 
I wonder if it lists who wrote what. I would be interested in seeing who actually wrote the dialogues.

 Codex entry.  

It doesn't specify exactly who wrote what.