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[melkathi]

In Wynne's defence:

She has probably been teaching for as long as your character has been alive. And a life of teaching shapes people. Both my parents are in education (school and university) so I have had many chances to meet people just like Wynne.
It happens I was at a trial last week of a teacher who was accused that her community work was illegal (language classes for imigrant parents of her students, free of charge after school). The judge was extremely young as judges go, in her mid thirties. In a way it was a very Wynne thing. The teacher was explaining, the judge opened her mouth to say something and imediatly shut it again, because the teacher was having none of that - you don't interrrupt a teacher who explains to you how things are Teachers or professors or whatever type of educator get used to being the ones that *know* and have to explain things to others. Wynne is no different.
Some of her behaviour can be explained this way.

Still, it is no excuse for some of the things she says. And definitly no xcuse for her false modesty.

General Balls wrote...

If people don't stop this Wynne hating, I might just get mad.
When I get mad, I ramble, and flecks of saliva get thrown all over the furniture.
You don't want that, because you're paying to clean it, damnit!

You are just saying that to get us all curious. But remember, if you build up expectations too much, people might be disappointed afterwards :innocent:

[ejoslin]

*grin* Apparently, hating on Wynne is, in some people's eyes, the equivalent of insulting their grandmother! I feel so mean now.

[ReubenLiew]

ejoslin wrote...

*grin* Apparently, hating on Wynne is, in some people's eyes, the equivalent of insulting their grandmother! I feel so mean now.

No one should ever hate those magical bosoms.

[SurelyForth]

I don't think it's any small coincidence that Wynne bears a striking resemblence to Mary Worth. I liked her at first, but now I delight in shutting her down when she asks my HN how she became a Grey Warden and being as childish as possible at all other times. If I wasn't so addicted to being jacked-up on Haste, she would be sidelined in perpetuity.

[Lupus Canivus]

[quote]melkathi wrote...

In Wynne's defence:

She has probably been teaching for as long as your character has been alive. And a life of teaching shapes people. Both my parents are in education (school and university) so I have had many chances to meet people just like Wynne.
It happens I was at a trial last week of a teacher who was accused that her community work was illegal (language classes for imigrant parents of her students, free of charge after school). The judge was extremely young as judges go, in her mid thirties. In a way it was a very Wynne thing. The teacher was explaining, the judge opened her mouth to say something and imediatly shut it again, because the teacher was having none of that - you don't interrrupt a teacher who explains to you how things are Teachers or professors or whatever type of educator get used to being the ones that *know* and have to explain things to others. Wynne is no different.
Some of her behaviour can be explained this way.

Still, it is no excuse for some of the things she says. And definitly no xcuse for her false modesty.



Soooo true! I'm in education and I tend to lecture a lot. I have to think before I open my mouth otherwise its.....lecture time, sit up straight you! Its a professional sickness.  I kind of like Wynne, could be because I never met my grandmothers.

[Cuddlezarro]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: Her relationship advice is enough to make me not like her, though.  Wow, unless you suck up to her totally, she is really awful there as well.  And yes, I know she apologizes later, but that she would even feel she had a right to say such a thing . ..  Next time,  I swear, she's staying in the circle . . .

Why wouldn't she had the right to say those things? I do not understand.

its not so much that you can have a talk about where your relationship is going but depending on who your romancing it can lead to her treating you like a 15 year old teenager in lust who would drop your responcabilities at the drop of a hat because of some fling

[Addai]

My read on Wynne's questioning of your relationship is a bit of projection + Chantry programming. She was more or less forced to live a celibate life devoted to the Circle and reconciled herself to it, so she thinks the Grey Warden should do the same even though the circumstances are different. She is especially concerned if you're messing with Alistair, her proxy son.

Modifié par Addai67, 28 janvier 2010 - 05:48 .

[ReubenLiew]

Celibate?

Mages take no oath of celibacy...

[Cuddlezarro]

Wynn wasnt celibate because she had a son and theres also a especially creepy RtO banter between her and alistair concerning her sex life

she also says a few things about mages and relations ships during normal conversations as well

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 28 janvier 2010 - 05:52 .

[Sabriana]

Addai67 wrote...

My read on Wynne's questioning of your relationship is a bit of projection + Chantry programming. She was more or less forced to live a celibate life devoted to the Circle and reconciled herself to it, so she thinks the Grey Warden should do the same even though the circumstances are different. She is especially concerned if you're messing with Alistair, her proxy son.

Yeah, she's all protective of Alistair, but dumps on Zevran. Don't get me wrong, I like her character, but this one always makes my PC (and me) mad. She's not going to break it off with Zevran because Wynne has tunnel-vision regarding Zevran and regarding the GWs.

[ReubenLiew]

You have to admit, he keeps on hanging onto her magical bosoms...

[Cuddlezarro]

Zevrans magical bossum comments are there to make her uncomfortable because she tries to make him feel bad for being an assassin

[melkathi]

Addai67 wrote...

My read on Wynne's questioning of your relationship is a bit of projection + Chantry programming. She was more or less forced to live a celibate life devoted to the Circle and reconciled herself to it, so she thinks the Grey Warden should do the same even though the circumstances are different. She is especially concerned if you're messing with Alistair, her proxy son.

As people said, put her in the party with Alistair and listen to their banter. It will change your view, just as it did Alistair's (who thought the same you did )

[ejoslin]

Ok, Zevran, if he WANTED to seduce any of his companions, probably could if he really tried. He managed to melt Morrigan on a bet. Someone with any experience knows that women will not fall for a line that involved "it's been awhile since you've knocked boots." And Zevran enjoys upsetting Wynne. If you seduce Cammen, for instance, with Zevran in your party you get +4 approval. If both Zevran and Wynne are in your party, you get +6 approval (heh, and -10 from Wynne). But really, Zevran, if you take him to the circle, is very nice to Wynne; she's the one who gets all judgemental with him.

Hmmm, I'm defending Zevran's honor. Is there something odd about that?

Modifié par ejoslin, 28 janvier 2010 - 06:00 .

[Sabriana]

ejoslin wrote...

Ok, Zevran, if he WANTED to seduce any of his companions, probably could if he really tried. He managed to melt Morrigan on a bet. Someone with any experience knows that women will not fall for a line that involved "it's been awhile since you've knocked boots." And Zevran enjoys upsetting Wynne. If you seduce Cammen, for instance, with Zevran in your party you get +4 approval. If both Zevran and Wynne are in your party, you get +6 approval (heh, and -10 from Wynne). But really, Zevran, if you take him to the circle, is very nice to Wynne; she's the one who gets all judgemental with him.

Hmmm, I'm defending Zevran's honor. Is there something odd about that?

No.

Looks perfectly normal to me.

Why do you ask?

[ReubenLiew]

Yes.

Now that we've solve that riddle, lets go back and indulge in it some more.

[ejoslin]

You know, I think part of the relationship talk is, if you have not seen the one about Zevran, it may seem that Wynne is worried about you two being hurt. With Zevran, it's very clear that her only concern is that you're behaving in a way that is not the way she thinks a Grey Warden should. She's worried that because you're sleeping with him, you'll abandon all your duties. She refers to it as a fling. She says you're not behaving in a way that is befitting of a Grey Warden.



There is no concern for Zevran or the Warden in that discussion, just a very harsh talk full of condemnation.

[Sabriana]

ejoslin wrote...

You know, I think part of the relationship talk is, if you have not seen the one about Zevran, it may seem that Wynne is worried about you two being hurt. With Zevran, it's very clear that her only concern is that you're behaving in a way that is not the way she thinks a Grey Warden should. She's worried that because you're sleeping with him, you'll abandon all your duties. She refers to it as a fling. She says you're not behaving in a way that is befitting of a Grey Warden.

There is no concern for Zevran or the Warden in that discussion, just a very harsh talk full of condemnation.

True.

And that's why my PC won't talk to Wynne anymore as soon as the Zevran romance takes off. She'll talk to Wynne again, but not until after Zevran's declaration of affection.

She ain't no dumb girl, that one

[Addai]

melkathi wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

My read on Wynne's questioning of your relationship is a bit of projection + Chantry programming. She was more or less forced to live a celibate life devoted to the Circle and reconciled herself to it, so she thinks the Grey Warden should do the same even though the circumstances are different. She is especially concerned if you're messing with Alistair, her proxy son.

As people said, put her in the party with Alistair and listen to their banter. It will change your view, just as it did Alistair's (who thought the same you did )

I think I've heard all the Wynne-Alistair chats... to which are you referring?

[melkathi]

ejoslin wrote...

You know, I think part of the relationship talk is, if you have not seen the one about Zevran, it may seem that Wynne is worried about you two being hurt. With Zevran, it's very clear that her only concern is that you're behaving in a way that is not the way she thinks a Grey Warden should. She's worried that because you're sleeping with him, you'll abandon all your duties. She refers to it as a fling. She says you're not behaving in a way that is befitting of a Grey Warden.

There is no concern for Zevran or the Warden in that discussion, just a very harsh talk full of condemnation.

The exact opposit of Leliana, who, if you are in a relationship with Zev, comments on how she suspects that there is far more to Zev than he let's on. While she'll talk about the sex if you are in a relationship with Alistair. She actually cares about the people in the group and to look past the masks they wear to protect themselves. Wynne, even though she acts all wise, seems to not have learned to not take people at face value. If all senior enchanters are like that it explains the Uldred situation

[ejoslin]

deleted unnecessary spoiler . . .

Modifié par ejoslin, 28 janvier 2010 - 06:20 .

[Sabriana]

Lol, yeah. At least it can't fester that way, like it did for my HN Rogue.

[ejoslin]

melkathi wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

You know, I think part of the relationship talk is, if you have not seen the one about Zevran, it may seem that Wynne is worried about you two being hurt. With Zevran, it's very clear that her only concern is that you're behaving in a way that is not the way she thinks a Grey Warden should. She's worried that because you're sleeping with him, you'll abandon all your duties. She refers to it as a fling. She says you're not behaving in a way that is befitting of a Grey Warden.

There is no concern for Zevran or the Warden in that discussion, just a very harsh talk full of condemnation.

The exact opposit of Leliana, who, if you are in a relationship with Zev, comments on how she suspects that there is far more to Zev than he let's on. While she'll talk about the sex if you are in a relationship with Alistair. She actually cares about the people in the group and to look past the masks they wear to protect themselves. Wynne, even though she acts all wise, seems to not have learned to not take people at face value. If all senior enchanters are like that it explains the Uldred situation

I think part of that has to do with Leliana and Zevran have far more in common than it first appears.  As in, their basic difference is how they ended up coping.  In some (all?) ways, Leliana is far more cold blooded than Zevran.  But she cracked in a way he didn't, so who knows.

Edit: It is funny you can tell her that Zevran wouldn't mind her joining in, but at that point, he's totally not sharing.

Modifié par ejoslin, 28 janvier 2010 - 06:28 .

[melkathi]

Addai67 wrote...

melkathi wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

My read on Wynne's questioning of your relationship is a bit of projection + Chantry programming. She was more or less forced to live a celibate life devoted to the Circle and reconciled herself to it, so she thinks the Grey Warden should do the same even though the circumstances are different. She is especially concerned if you're messing with Alistair, her proxy son.

As people said, put her in the party with Alistair and listen to their banter. It will change your view, just as it did Alistair's (who thought the same you did )

I think I've heard all the Wynne-Alistair chats... to which are you referring?

This bit:

• Alistair: So tell me, you have any children? Grandchildren? I don't know, great grandchildren?
• Wynne: What would make you think I have any children at all? You have to know I've spent most of my life in the Circle of Magi.
• Alistair: You just seem like the grandmotherly type to me, I don't know.
• Wynne: I suppose I'll take that as a comment on my demeanor and not my age.
• Alistair: Mages aren't forbidden to marry or anything, are they? It's not such an outlandish question.
• Wynne: Isn't it? What sort of man would marry a mage, do you think?
• Alistair: How about another mage? There are just as many men as there are women within the Circle, as I recall.
• Wynne: That sort of union is... not encouraged.
  Although that does not stop us from seeking out each other's... company
  from time to time.
• Alistair: I... all right, suddenly you don't seem quite so grandmotherly to me anymore.
• Wynne: Good. I would hope not.

and this bit:

• Alistair: You know, of all the mages I've met you have to be the first one I can honestly say I've really liked.
• Wynne: Why thank you, Alistair. I am quite touched. I
  like you, too, Alistair. I imagine my son would have grown up to be
  someone like you.
• Alistair: Your son? I thought you said you were never married?
• Wynne: That's true. I never have been.
• Alistair: I... oh. Then this wasn't... before you joined the circle?
• Wynne: I joined the Circle at the age of nine. So, no. Do you still like me?
• Alistair: Err... yes? Why wouldn't I?
• Wynne: Good. It appears you got away from the Chantry just in time.

Wynne was deffinitly not celibate. She had no life partner, but she would sleep with people when she felt like it.
Guess that is not too different from other organizations/situations were people all live together and can't avoid each other. A "real" relationship could always end badly and this is a problem when the two parties can't avoid each other afterwards. When the two are mages with imense power at their fingertips, things are even worse.

[Addai]

melkathi wrote...



[*]Wynne was deffinitly not celibate. She had no life partner, but she would sleep with people when she felt like it.
Guess that is not too different from other organizations/situations were people all live together and can't avoid each other. A "real" relationship could always end badly and this is a problem when the two parties can't avoid each other afterwards. When the two are mages with imense power at their fingertips, things are even worse.

I did not mean that she was a virgin.  In commenting that she sees Alistair as proxy son, I was in fact thinking of the fact that she compares him to her own son, that she would like to think of him as what her son would be.  Hence why she is so concerned the PC is going to hurt him.  However, I certainly don't get the sense that she slept with people when she felt like it.  She says herself that such liaisons are not encouraged.  Do you encounter any couples in the Circle?  Celibate was perhaps the wrong word, however when she speaks about her Circle calling she talks about having to see it as a substitute for having a normal family.  It sounds very much to me like Chantry vows, and I am going to guess that the Chantry really would like to make mages take such vows.  It sounds like they all but do require this of them.

Modifié par Addai67, 28 janvier 2010 - 06:42 .