1396 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

She objected to me and Alistair because she was worried that it would affect our abilities to do what needed to be done. In the end, both of us were willing to do that anyways, he just didn't give me a choice. I don't think that vindicated Wynne at all, it proved her wrong.

Ferelden needs a GW to sacrifice themself if the DR doesn't happen. It also needs the slated monarch to NOT go off and commit suicide. While the PC could technically be a slated monarch, they cannot rule if Alistair dies so there's no point keeping her alive for that. Either of you can sacrifice yourself but only one of you needs to be alive for Ferelden's political stability. Just because Anora apparently makes everyone happy accept the elves and makes sure there is no heir to the throne doesn't mean Alistair wasn't being selfish by putting his feelings for the PC above the good of Ferelden.



I disagree with Wynne on the whole 'love is selfish' thing, but the sacrifice only hurt Ferelden and was only good for the PC.

[Cuddlezarro]

Sarah1281 wrote...

If you get the blood magic tattling put back in and convince Wynne it was 'Grey Warden magic' does she still claim that you're 'brave and good' when she tries to use you to ditch the tower? Because that would be one quick turnaround from 'kill the evil blood mage who I don't care just saved us all'.

yes she does

[Sarah1281]

Wow. I wish there were an option to say something like "Hell no. You just tried to get me killed because you thought I was a blood mage!"

[Cuddlezarro]

Swifty wrote...

Oh man I checked and you can't kick her out-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

Has anyone tried to NOT take her when you go to leave the tower and the option opens up?

And yes you can boot out Morrigan. How much you wanna bet she still shows up looking for the GodBaby at the end, anyway?

if you look through the topic there *are* ways to get Wynne to leave without defiling the ashes

get her to -100 approval (you can actually do this with the cheat console) and return to camp and she will tell you shes leaving

shes actually nicer about it than when you defile the ashes as well despite being -100 hostile

[Cuddlezarro]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Morrigan totally does, which makes it even stranger that she randomly shows up. The quickest and most efficient way of getting rid of Wynne that I've found is having her in your party and agreeing to side with Cullen. You don't actually have to, but Wynne attacks regardless. It's kind of too bad that once you say you'll side with him and Zevran gives you a very compelling argument on why you shouldn't you can't agree with him. If party members are going to interrupt and have a problem with what you do, you should have the option to be convinced by them.

even if you side with Cullen you arnt forced to kill the mages~ just use the litany of adralla during the fight and you get the standard save the mage ending unless you tell gregoir its to dangerous for a blood mage to live

[Swifty]

Sarah1281 wrote...

She objected to me and Alistair because she was worried that it would affect our abilities to do what needed to be done. In the end, both of us were willing to do that anyways, he just didn't give me a choice. I don't think that vindicated Wynne at all, it proved her wrong.

Ferelden needs a GW to sacrifice themself if the DR doesn't happen. It also needs the slated monarch to NOT go off and commit suicide. While the PC could technically be a slated monarch, they cannot rule if Alistair dies so there's no point keeping her alive for that. Either of you can sacrifice yourself but only one of you needs to be alive for Ferelden's political stability. Just because Anora apparently makes everyone happy accept the elves and makes sure there is no heir to the throne doesn't mean Alistair wasn't being selfish by putting his feelings for the PC above the good of Ferelden.

I disagree with Wynne on the whole 'love is selfish' thing, but the sacrifice only hurt Ferelden and was only good for the PC.

Wasn't even good for the PC, IMO. I rogued a dragon to death and that SOB stole my thunder after already dumping me for Anora and my putting him on the throne. Not only was it suicidal idiocy it was a waste of all my hard work and total ingratitude. Talk about shirking your duty. Which is why I say Whynne needs to lecture Alistair about doing what's right for Fereldon--not the MC.

If that isn't some idiotic romantic notion, I don't know what is. If I could have, I would have shieldbashed his stupid skull.

[ejoslin]

sami jo wrote...

Swifty wrote...

Only because you defy her and keep boffing your S/O. That's not learning--that's tolerating.

Also, she's lecturing the MC not Alistair--if she had half a brain she'd be telling him, not you. And she gives you the same speech no matter who you're boffing even Zevran.

You get a speech no matter who you are romancing, but it is different for each romanceable character.  She is afraid you will hurt Lelianna and Allistair, she goes on about Morrigan being an untrustworthy maleficar, and she is downright nasty about Zevran, calling him "beneath" you.  She apologizes about her nastiness eventually, but it takes the longest for her to apologize about Zevran, and it only happens if you take the earring from him. 

Actually, it happens when he falls in love.  You don't have to accept the earring to get her apology.

[ejoslin]

Swifty wrote...

Oh man I checked and you can't kick her out-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

Has anyone tried to NOT take her when you go to leave the tower and the option opens up?

And yes you can boot out Morrigan. How much you wanna bet she still shows up looking for the GodBaby at the end, anyway?

You can leave her in the tower.  I've done it a few times.

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 mars 2010 - 12:35 .

[ejoslin]

I have some thoughts about Wynne's romance lecture, especially regarding Zevran. I've done it enough times where it doesn't really tick me off anymore.

It really sounds more like she's scolding herself. That she had had a relationship she thought could endure, but that she learned, the hard way, that the feelings weren't really returned. It could be the relationship that resulted in a son. What makes her apologize, of course, is the warden and her lover falling in love. That may have been what was missing in Wynne's relationship.

She may have been willing to give up EVERYTHING for someone who cared for her deeply but didn't love her, and ended up completely burned. And she's worried that if that happens to the warden, they will react like she did, shirking all responsibilities and such.

I still find it highly insulting, not only the beginning of the Zevran lecture, but if she ends it saying, "I'm just telling you why this fling of yours may be a bad idea." But if she's just seeing herself and what happened to her, it's pretty understandable.

I like her apology, though. I REALLY like it.  That's something the Zev fans get -- the most squee of the apologies.

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 mars 2010 - 12:47 .

[AndreaDraco]

Unlike many others in this thread, I sincerely like Wynne and I found her romance lecture spot-on. I mean: from Wynne I expect this kind of scolding speech, and, even on my first playthrough, I spent the entire conversation trying to convince her that the relationship between the Warden and Zevran was not a fling, and that Zevran and I could confront anything together, the Blight included. She wasn't convinced, of course, but I didn't care. I expected that from her.



What I didn't really expect was the apology dialogue, which I found really touching, and as spot-on as the scolding speech. When Wynne sees the true feelings between the Warden and Zevran, she understands the value of love - nice theory, ejosling: I really like it - even in the face of dire times like the present ones, maybe especially in the face of such dire times. And when she says that Zevran let only the Warden see his true face from the beginning, while the other can only glimpse this true face when Zev looks at the Warden, I was really moved and liked her even more.



Anyway, she has a point even in the lecture: I always thought that my character will be ready to die for Zevran, if that comes to it. And that heavily contrasts with one's duty as a Grey Warden. So, to make it short, I see Wynne's point, and I don't blame her for her thoughts, but, when she finally sees the truth, I'm glad to know that she's on our side. After all, each and everyone of my Wardens ends up being a very close friend with her, to the point that Wynne is, with Zevran, the only constant of my playthroughs.

[Swifty]

Well that was okay for me until I romanced *no one* , was a very focussed character and she still gave that idiotic speech. I think it also depends on whether one is playing a young "good" character missing Duncan--that MC would like her. An MC who distrust authority or who is older and she becomes grating very quickly.



Now I just tell her to MYOB unless the MC is the sort of person who would listen to it.

[ejoslin]

Swifty wrote...

Well that was okay for me until I romanced *no one* , was a very focussed character and she still gave that idiotic speech. I think it also depends on whether one is playing a young "good" character missing Duncan--that MC would like her. An MC who distrust authority or who is older and she becomes grating very quickly.

Now I just tell her to MYOB unless the MC is the sort of person who would listen to it.

The romance dialog?  It's only triggered if you are in a romance, though, at 71+ adore.  *sigh* the romances in this game can be buggy, though.  If someone ninja romances you, you'll still get it!

[ejoslin]

Hmmm, this post is no longer near the front page and that is bad. SOOOOO!

My current game is a mage. The conversation timing has been very interesting. First I got her supportive romance talk, where Wynne tells her how worried she is that the Warden will throw it all away to have sex with Zevran instead of saving the world like she's supposed to. BUT immediately afterwards, she had the conversation about rebuilding the circle. My warden told her at every opportunity that she's a Grey Warden now. But apparently, judging from the approval loss, she should abandon the wardens after defeating the blight and rebuild the circle (even though we all know Wynne doesn't stay to rebuild the circle). So I guess the priorities are thus:

Rebuild the Circle > Rebuild the Grey wardens IF you must (but shouldn't) > having a caring relationship. Of course, you could do the last two at the same time, but the first? That would take priority over both.

For some reason, those priorities look wrong.

Modifié par ejoslin, 14 mars 2010 - 07:53 .

[Addai]

When is it that Wynne asks the Warden mage to go back to the Circle? I was expecting it at post-coronation but never got it, maybe it was a camp dialogue?

[ejoslin]

It is a camp dialog, after finishing Aneirin's quest. He had suggested that the warden rebuild the circle, and Wynne brings it up at camp. It's very obviously her dream, that the circle be rebuilt stronger than it was before. And she strongly disapproves if you tell her you don't want to do that. The very interesting thing was that the relationship dialog triggered just before that one -- so on the one hand, being a warden needs to come before your personal happiness, but on the other, the circle needs to come before the wardens if there's not a blight going on.

[Count Viceroy]

ejoslin wrote...

The very interesting thing was that the relationship dialog triggered just before that one -- so on the one hand, being a warden needs to come before your personal happiness, but on the other, the circle needs to come before the wardens if there's not a blight going on.

she's biased like everyone else.

[Cuddlezarro]

ejoslin wrote...

Hmmm, this post is no longer near the front page and that is bad. SOOOOO!

My current game is a mage. The conversation timing has been very interesting. First I got her supportive romance talk, where Wynne tells her how worried she is that the Warden will throw it all away to have sex with Zevran instead of saving the world like she's supposed to. BUT immediately afterwards, she had the conversation about rebuilding the circle. My warden told her at every opportunity that she's a Grey Warden now. But apparently, judging from the approval loss, she should abandon the wardens after defeating the blight and rebuild the circle (even though we all know Wynne doesn't stay to rebuild the circle). So I guess the priorities are thus:

Rebuild the Circle > Rebuild the Grey wardens IF you must (but shouldn't) > having a caring relationship. Of course, you could do the last two at the same time, but the first? That would take priority over both.

For some reason, those priorities look wrong.

[ejoslin]

Count Viceroy wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

The very interesting thing was that the relationship dialog triggered just before that one -- so on the one hand, being a warden needs to come before your personal happiness, but on the other, the circle needs to come before the wardens if there's not a blight going on.

she's biased like everyone else.

Begone, non-Wynne-hater!

*grin* Teasing you.  Of course she's biased.  That's why it's fun hating on her sometimes!

Edit: CZ, that banner will NEVER get old!

Modifié par ejoslin, 14 mars 2010 - 08:19 .

[Count Viceroy]

ejoslin wrote...

Begone, non-Wynne-hater!

*grin* Teasing you.  Of course she's biased.  That's why it's fun hating on her sometimes!

Edit: CZ, that banner will NEVER get old!

Ow, no I hate her as much as the next person. She's thinks her self so important and keeps sticking her nose into my business and who I might and might not be snogging. The banter comming from morrigan to wynne pretty much sums up my feelings on wynne. I may not like most of what morrigan does, but she's right about wynne.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 14 mars 2010 - 08:29 .

[Addai]

filaminstrel wrote...

I'd like to point out that Wynne has already served in her capacity as a Circle mage for a long time (her whole life, and she's an old woman), so I wouldn't automatically assume she's a hypocrite for asking you to rejoin the Circle when she doesn't want to. Perhaps she thinks she's paid her due to the Circle by putting all those years in, while you have not.

She tells Irving when asking to follow the GW that the Circle does not need her.

[Chasseresse]

"I'd like to point out that Wynne has already served in her capacity as a Circle mage for a long time (her whole life, and she's an old woman), so I wouldn't automatically assume she's a hypocrite for asking you to rejoin the Circle when she doesn't want to. Perhaps she thinks she's paid her due to the Circle by putting all those years in, while you have not."



I think it is Irving? that says something along the lines of Wynne always wanting to be out of/away from the Circle doing this, that, whatever. It implied that she actually hadn't spent as much time at the Circle as other senior enchanters. Which makes it a little more annoying that even though she got to go and leave when she wanted to (or at least a lot more often than the other senior mages), she expects you to happily return and shackle yourself to the Circle.

[ejoslin]

Do you think the Chantry would allow a mage as powerful as the warden to exist if s/he were under the control of the Chantry and circle? It's only because s/he's a grey warden that she's allowed to survive at all. At least, I think they'd tranquilize her as fast as they could!

[mousestalker]

On a side note I'm doing a 'perfect run' as a mage to get ready for Awakening. In this run, I have the blood mage dialogue tweaks installed. Wynne is a snitch if you are a blood mage, but she is actually diplomatic about it. In the conversation I saw she never actually uses the phrase 'blood mage' or the word maleficar. She asks about non-Circle magic and accepst what Greagoir and Irving tell her.



It's interesting. It's also not canonical since you have to switch it on via mod.

[Cuddlezarro]

I posted screenshots earlier with her telling gregoir she saw me using blood magic

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 15 mars 2010 - 12:14 .