1396 réponses à ce sujet

[ejoslin]

soteria wrote...

Ok, a mage PC is always going to be stronger than a mage NPC, tha'ts a no-brainer. With any other character she's a huge asset to that fight since using crowd control really isn't an option. And with her (or a PC spirit healer, w/e) you really don't need crowd control.

Actually, the warden really is a child, relatively speaking. It depends on the origin, but I get the impression from the origins and what I know of history you're not much over 18 if you're even that old. I'm only in my 20's and I consider 18-20 year-old's kids, I can only imagine what it would be like at her age. So yeah, you're a kid. Get over it.

Wynne doesn't undermine your authority--she has that conversation with you in camp, away from the other party members. As a member of the group, she brings up valid concerns about your commitment both to your love interest and to stopping the Blight. Were I in the same situation, with my life on the line, I would be concerned, too. As the leader of the group, the question of whether or not your head is in the game is NOT your "personal business."

So does Sten, but you don't seem to have a problem with him? Looks to me like you're just picking at things you wouldn't criticize in other people. As for Dog, I don't think any NPC ever accuses a mabari of being weak. Arl Eamon tells you that you can't have your mabari duel Loghain because then "anyone who owned a mabari would have a shot at the throne," not because he thinks Dog might lose.

As I said before, you're hardly a grown man/woman, and especially not from the perspective of someone Wynne's age. No, I haven't had that conversation with Wynne; I think I killed her the time I romanced Zevran. The point at which she apologizes is not "MUCH MUCH later." It varies, but I think I've had it as soon as the next time I visited camp.

True, the PC is the strongest character.  But I usually don't take Wynne, no matter what class I'm playing.  Control is FAR more important than healing.  I use paralyze runes, cold bombs, traps, etc.  Potions take care of the rest.  I play on hard (not nightmare because I'm too old *grin*).

And I disagree that the warden isn't grown.  Dwarf noble has just been made an army commander.  City elf is about to get married.  Casteless is definitely a thug, but grown.  Dalish is obviously considered an adult as her face is tattooed.  Human noble has just been left in charge of Highever.  We are NOT talking children.

And being older does not give a pass on being rude.  You have a couple, I'm using Zevran as an example as he's my PC's usual romance partner.  Like him or not, he and the warden are obviously very involved, adore each other (he has to be in adore for the conversation to trigger), have fun together, and yet are still going out and kicking major butt, getting support, etc.  It's obviously not a concerned Wynne, it's a disapproving and judgmental Wynne, who insults Zevran, the warden, and their relationship.  Which is why you never have a Zevran fan saying that the conversation with Wynne was just her being concerned.  It really has a far different tone than the Alistair conversation.

And yes, the time she apologize with Zevran IS later.  You have to understand, with the Zevran romance, it usually hits adore very early (his approval raises very quickly when romanced), but doesn't hit love until after the Landsmeet is called, which is what triggers the apology.

And Sten doesn't try to kill you, he sees if you're strongest to really command.  Wynne tries to kill you, she tells you that's her intent.  And if she DOESN'T try to kill you over defiling the ashes, she tells you that she hopes the darkspawn wins.  She's not as noble as she makes herself out to be!

Edit: I want to add that I picked spirit healer so I could have a combat rez.  I haven't needed to use it.  I don't know if I actually have cast a heal spell this game.  Blood wound is so overpowered, it's not even funny, and I use blood sacrifice to heal my warden.  Wait, I did heal during the Flemeth fight, but just the standard heal spell while Flemeth picked up Alistair.  Since spells cost my character health, healing doesn't make that much sense.  I would rather have another damager in there so things die faster than a healer.  It's a different play style is all.  I find controlling more effective than healing.  I almost never take Wynne, even when my character is not a mage.  *shrug* it works for me.

Second edit: And your quote about the Mabari is wrong.  Eamon says that anyone with a leftover ham bone could win his alliance.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 février 2010 - 09:18 .

[soteria]

how would you know that I havnt brought up Sten at all and he has nothing to do with the topic also Sten doesnt try to kill you he tries to take command yes but not kill you



Wynn has several opptunities int he game to outright try and kill you

And yet, if you lose to Sten, it's game over. You make Wynne sound like she's out to murder you, when in the first incident she's protecting her home from someone she has no reason to trust (you) and in the second she's trying to stop you from defiling something that is sacred to her beliefs. If I shared her beliefs and actually cared about them I'd probably try to stop you, too. As I said before, having convictions isn't a reason not to like someone, imo.



And I think you just proved me right about Sten, since you defended him. So there?

funny because I dont see my Noble character being any younger than 25-28 so no he is *not* a child and since your age OR birthdate is never stated its perfectly reasonable to think that



and you cant exactly compare real world history to that of a video game with dragons and magic

1. Everyone treats you like a child in the human noble origin.

2. You can RP whatever you want, but good luck trying to convince me that the story really supports your being in your mid-20s. Just like almost every other Bioware RPG, the game starts with you just barely an adult.

3. The game has a quasi-historical setting with multiple allusions to real-world kingdoms and history, so yeah, I can compare it to world history.

see above for the age thing but im sorry but my character is not a child and Wynn should respect that this aint a stereotypical JRPG with hormonal angst ridden 16 year old brats saving the world

Wynne should respect that this isn't a stereotypical JRPG? What?

[ejoslin]

1. You've just been left in charge of Highever . . . no one is treating you like a child. Your mom is being sent away so she doesn't undermine your authority.

2. How do you support that you're dealing with kids? It certainly doesn't seem that way to me. In fact, using the human noble origin, the fact that Howe is suggesting you marry his son (or daughter I suppose) who you say is several years younger than yourself supports that the person IS older.

Again, dwarf noble you have just been made commander of an army. Bhelen is your YOUNGER brother, and obviously is a little older than 18.

YOU can choose to roleplay this as you see fit, but that doesn't make everyone 18-20.

Edit: thinking about ages, just from dialog, here are my guesses:

Dwarf noble: late twenties
Dwarf castless: Younger.  could be anything, really.  Maybe 20.
Human noble: Early to mid 20s.  Mom is disparing you getting married and having children
Mage: who knows -- could be anything.  There is just no clue there at all.  Jowan looks older and you're peers, so probably the same age.  Early 20s?
City elf: Getting married.  Could be any age
Dalish: Obviously considered and adult and warrior for her clan.  Face tattoos are a rite of passage

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 février 2010 - 09:33 .

[Cuddlezarro]

And yet, if you lose to Sten, it's game over. You make Wynne sound like she's out to murder you, when in the first incident she's protecting her home from someone she has no reason to trust (you) and in the second she's trying to stop you from defiling something that is sacred to her beliefs. If I shared her beliefs and actually cared about them I'd probably try to stop you, too. As I said before, having convictions isn't a reason not to like someone, imo.

she also tries to kill you if your a blood mage and helped save the tower you grew up in plus you know your the only hope of stopping the blight and all that

And I think you just proved me right about Sten, since you defended him. So there?

no I didnt prove you right because I just stated a fact Sten *does* try to take command if you take him to haven

that has nothing to do with what I feel for the character

1. Everyone treats you like a child in the human noble origin.

2. You can RP whatever you want, but good luck trying to convince me that the story really supports your being in your mid-20s. Just like almost every other Bioware RPG, the game starts with you just barely an adult.

3. The game has a quasi-historical setting with multiple allusions to real-world kingdoms and history, so yeah, I can compare it to world history.

1) thats why your dad leaves you in charge of highever by yourself

2) almost every bioware rpg=/=every single one plus like Ejolsin states there are origins you are *clearly* not that young (see Dwarf Noble as an example)

3) except history didnt have healing magic or demons able to keep people from the verge of death or magical ore that can turn some dead womans ashes and give them healing properties

Wynne should respect that this isn't a stereotypical JRPG? What?

no she should respect you as a person and not be outright rude to you if you have done nothing to deserve it not treat you like your a hormonal JRPG character

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 10 février 2010 - 09:36 .

[soteria]

True, the PC is the strongest character. But I usually don't take Wynne, no matter what class I'm playing. Control is FAR more important than healing. I use paralyze runes, cold bombs, traps, etc. Potions take care of the rest. I play on hard (not nightmare because I'm too old *grin*).

Control negates the need for healing; healing negates the need for control. You're going to have a really hard time pushing an argument that one is "better" than the other, since I've gone both ways with and without potions and been highly successful.

And I disagree that the warden isn't grown. Dwarf noble has just been made an army commander. City elf is about to get married. Casteless is definitely a thug, but grown. Dalish is obviously considered an adult as her face is tattooed. Human noble has just been left in charge of Highever. We are NOT talking children.

Dwarf noble is made a commander because he's a prince, not because he went to Sandhurst or West Point. I could make a good long list of historical commanders who rose to high position at a very young age. City elf--you do realize they married young back then, right? Marriage could be as young as 16. Dalish is considered an adult, but that doesn't indicate age, since a lot of cultures have considered 16 or 18 an adult in the past. Casteless is the only origin I haven't played, so I won't comment.

And Sten doesn't try to kill you, he sees if you're strongest to really command. Wynne tries to kill you, she tells you that's her intent. And if she DOESN'T try to kill you over defiling the ashes, she tells you that she hopes the darkspawn wins. She's not as noble as she makes herself out to be!

Yep. Double standards. Why don't you try losing to Sten and see what happens? You die.

And being older does not give a pass on being rude. You have a couple, I'm using Zevran as an example as he's my PC's usual romance partner. Like him or not, he and the warden are obviously very involved, adore each other (he has to be in adore for the conversation to trigger), have fun together, and yet are still going out and kicking major butt, getting support, etc. It's obviously not a concerned Wynne, it's a disapproving and judgmental Wynne, who insults Zevran, the warden, and their relationship. Which is why you never have a Zevran fan saying that the conversation with Wynne was just her being concerned. It really has a far different tone than the Alistair conversation.

Assuming you pursue the romance that far, sure. You're arguing this like every time anyone romances Zevran it's a match made in heaven, when it can just as easily be casual sex--and it basically starts that way, seeing as he's probably the very easiest to "romance." So when you say all this about how you're obviously very involved, adore each other, etc, I have to call BS because that's not really how it is when you start out. He tries to kill you, tags along, and the next night you're sleeping together, and you get mad when someone raises concerns? What?

And your quote about the Mabari is wrong. Eamon says that anyone with a leftover ham bone could win his alliance.

*eyeroll* Please. And I care about the exact words because...?

[ejoslin]

soteria wrote...

Control negates the need for healing; healing negates the need for control. You're going to have a really hard time pushing an argument that one is "better" than the other, since I've gone both ways with and without potions and been highly successful.

Dwarf noble is made a commander because he's a prince, not because he went to Sandhurst or West Point. I could make a good long list of historical commanders who rose to high position at a very young age. City elf--you do realize they married young back then, right? Marriage could be as young as 16. Dalish is considered an adult, but that doesn't indicate age, since a lot of cultures have considered 16 or 18 an adult in the past. Casteless is the only origin I haven't played, so I won't comment.

Yep. Double standards. Why don't you try losing to Sten and see what happens? You die.

Assuming you pursue the romance that far, sure. You're arguing this like every time anyone romances Zevran it's a match made in heaven, when it can just as easily be casual sex--and it basically starts that way, seeing as he's probably the very easiest to "romance." So when you say all this about how you're obviously very involved, adore each other, etc, I have to call BS because that's not really how it is when you start out. He tries to kill you, tags along, and the next night you're sleeping together, and you get mad when someone raises concerns? What?


*eyeroll* Please. And I care about the exact words because...?

Ok, if you DON'T pursue the Zevran romance that far, you don't get the apology.  

Bhelen is obviously older than 18.  He's your younger brother.

Sten is NOT trying to kill you, that is not his intent.  The game over is game mechanics only.

Only reason the mabari matters is you brought it up and completely changed the meaning.  I personally don't care.

You really like to argue, don't you.:innocent: I know I do 

Edit: and I already said that healing vs controlling is a different play style.  So why continue to argue it?

Second edit: Wynne's conversation triggers, the romance one, at +71 adore.  At this point, Zevran trusts the PC to tell her about his last mission which he swore he would NEVER tell anyone (he will only tell a friend PC after the Taliesen encounter I believe at 91+ friendly).  It's at that point where he will object to the warden being with anyone else, and no matter what the reasons he gives for wanting her to choose, if she chooses him he is visibly relieved and gives a huge approval gain, and if she breaks up with him, he is visibly upset and gives a huge approval loss.  Wynne does not bring up the relationship while it's at a casual level.   

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 février 2010 - 10:20 .

[Sabriana]

You certainly can role-play the age of your PC as you want, but my HNF is in her mid 20's and she looks it as well. She is being put in charge of Highever, Howe wants to push his several years younger son on her, and her Mom is leaving so to not undermine your authority. Fergus is ~ 27 or 28 thereabouts. His son is perhaps 7 or 8. My PC is his younger sister, but as I see it, not by much. I take my clues from in-game and there is no way that you can ever tell me that you are right and everyone else who thinks differently than you is wrong.

My PCs are all ~ 25. I could never play them any younger it would feel very wrong. I play the way I want, and the way it feels right to me. A teenager PC? No way in heck.

She's devoted to the fight, to ending the Blight? So she tries to kill the PC? Bunk. She knows perfectly well that the PC and Alistair are Ferelden's only hope at the moment, yet she would kill half of the GWs left in the country?

She never came across as 'devout' to me, by the way. She shouldn't treat my PC as if she was a 16 year old teenager with raging hormones. She has not the right to do that. Not even my parents and my brother (HNF) have anything against her having a sweet Dairren night, and brother even jokes about it.

As for her capabilities, she is in camp most of the time. In fact, she's in camp all of the time unless the game forces me to take her. I never needed her, ever. Not my mage, not my HNF rogue, and not my HNF warrior.

[Kimarous]

I don't really hold Wynne's attitude against her. She's the product of a lifetime's worth of Chantry overlording, decades of propoganda, and her own experiences as a crummy instructor (see: her personal quest). You can't teach an old dog new tricks, and Maker knows how old that "dog" is and how set she is on her views. Still, digging past the crust of Chantry posturing and I see an old woman who means well and is the closest thing my character sees as a grandmother.

[Sabriana]

I actually have not much against her. She is in camp usually, and my PC will do her personal quest, so Wynne can have some peace. However, she's not a perfect person. Sticking her nose in, being insulting, meddling, and acting the way she does are character flaws. Everyone has them, and I won't just overlook and ignore them. I don't like my PC treated like that, and I resent that she thinks she wrote the book on Grey Wardens when she has about as much of a clue as Jory had.

It doesn't make her bad, it makes her flawed, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's good writing. She's no saint, but she thinks she knows it all.

Actually, the reason my PC forgives her (except for the meddling in her private life) is because she is aware that Wynne was under the thumb of the tower and the chantry for most of her life.

[SusanStoHelit]

Based on the data given in the game, our pcs could be any age from about 18 up to about 28 (depending on the origin). Nevertheless, to someone Wynne's age, even a 28 year old seems like a child; they just seem very young. I'm not quite Wynne's age yet, but I'm nearly 50, and my 25 year old nephew seems very young and immature to me. I do hand out advice to him, and have even been known to call him childish when he has been behaving immaturely or irresponsibly. So I can relate to that mind-set.

Nevertheless, there is really no ingame evidence of our pc behaving in an immature or irresponsible manner. We're carrying out all our assigned tasks and duties, we're not shirking anything. We are in a serious relationship with someone (Zevran in the case being argued). Since you don't get the conversation with Wynne until the relationship hits 'adore', it's not just casual sex. No matter how it started.

Furthermore, even if it was just casual sex, so what? As an adult, no matter how young in years I am, I am entitled to do what I want with whom I want (based on Ferelden's sexual mores). And as long as it doesn't interfere with me fighting the Blight and the Archdemon, she has no right to be odious about it. Expressing concern I could accept, but with Zevran it's more than that.

I neither particularly like nor dislike Wynne. She's spent most of her life being a teacher and mentor - and that's not something you can just drop. So the fact that she keeps doing it doesn't bug me too much. After all, mages continue to be taught and mentored long past their becoming 'adult'. Even if you rp a mage who is late 20s, until they pass the Harrowing, they're still being taught and mentored. Even Irving calls you 'child' - or he did me in both mage playthroughs. So perhaps older Fereldens in general call all young people 'child'. Or perhaps mages do.

As for the Ashes - that seems strange to me in some ways. Leliana's reaction is absolutely in character. But Wynne actually tells Leliana that she's not much of a believer. Maybe it's less about her seeing the Ashes as sacred to herself, than her seeing them as sacred to others. That holy/sacred objects shouldn't be defiled - even if you yourself don't view them as sacred. I know I was incredibly upset about the destruction of those ancient Buddhist statues in Afghanistan - and I'm not a Buddhist.

Again, however, I can accept her anger and distaste on that matter. It's her hoping that the darkspawn win that's just - wrong. It seems like something said in a fit of rage that isn't actually meant, but it's incredibly childish if so.

[Edited for formatting.]

Modifié par SusanStoHelit, 10 février 2010 - 10:32 .

[soteria]

Only reason the mabari matters is you brought it up and completely changed the meaning. I personally don't care.

BS. The meaning of what he says is anyone with a mabari could take the throne--hence the comment about the veal bone or whatever. He obviously think the mabari has a strong chance of winning.

Sten is NOT trying to kill you, that is not his intent. The game over is game mechanics only.

Regardless, you're holding a double standard, which is one of your complaints about Wynne. You say Wynne is somehow "undermining" your authority by privately questioning your judgment? Yet Sten actually tries to take control in front of everyone. But you seem fine with his actions.

Edit: and I already said that healing vs controlling is a different play style. So why continue to argue it?

I'll just quote you: "Control is FAR more important than healing."

Bhelen is obviously older than 18. He's your younger brother.

Maybe if you had some actual evidence for that, I'd take you seriously. He's not "obviously" over 18 or even "obviously" under 18. We know he's younger than the PC and that's it.



People keep on talking about your being the only hope for Ferelden. Says who? The Grey Wardens. Meta-game knowledge aside, that could sound a lot like self-aggrandizement to anyone else. Even the PC has a dialogue option to say that the Grey Wardens being necessary sounded like an exaggeration, so I really don't see Wynne killing you as the big deal you make it out to be. From her perspective, if she lets you through, you destroy her home. If she kills you, what may or may not be a Blight may or may not be stopped by someone else, and, if it isn't stopped, her home may or may not be destroyed eventually anyway. Yeah. I'd kill you in a heartbeat.

[ejoslin]

soteria wrote...

Only reason the mabari matters is you brought it up and completely changed the meaning. I personally don't care.

BS. The meaning of what he says is anyone with a mabari could take the throne--hence the comment about the veal bone or whatever. He obviously think the mabari has a strong chance of winning.

Sten is NOT trying to kill you, that is not his intent. The game over is game mechanics only.

Regardless, you're holding a double standard, which is one of your complaints about Wynne. You say Wynne is somehow "undermining" your authority by privately questioning your judgment? Yet Sten actually tries to take control in front of everyone. But you seem fine with his actions.

Edit: and I already said that healing vs controlling is a different play style. So why continue to argue it?

I'll just quote you: "Control is FAR more important than healing."

Bhelen is obviously older than 18. He's your younger brother.

Maybe if you had some actual evidence for that, I'd take you seriously. He's not "obviously" over 18 or even "obviously" under 18. We know he's younger than the PC and that's it.

People keep on talking about your being the only hope for Ferelden. Says who? The Grey Wardens. Meta-game knowledge aside, that could sound a lot like self-aggrandizement to anyone else. Even the PC has a dialogue option to say that the Grey Wardens being necessary sounded like an exaggeration, so I really don't see Wynne killing you as the big deal you make it out to be. From her perspective, if she lets you through, you destroy her home. If she kills you, what may or may not be a Blight may or may not be stopped by someone else, and, if it isn't stopped, her home may or may not be destroyed eventually anyway. Yeah. I'd kill you in a heartbeat.

Ok, quote for the same thread post (me):

"It's a different play style is all. I find controlling more effective than healing.  I almost never take Wynne, even when my character is not a mage.  *shrug* it works for me."  If you're going to quote my posts, please read them.  Because I do find controlling FAR more effective than healing.  When I use controlling, I use far fewer healing and lyrium potions.  Your play style may have different results.

And yes, Bhelen, who mentions a wife, has a concubine, at least one child . . . perhaps he's 14.   

Wynne mentions you're the only hope of Ferelden, actually.  More than once.  So she obviously believes it.  Who cares if it's true or not in that case?

Edit: Again, if you choose to roleplay your characters as 18-20, that's your business.  The game doesn't really support that for all of them, but that's ok.  You should play in a way that you enjoy.  It's just as likely that the characters are older (in some cases, most likely that they are), but you don't have to play them that way.  I happen to be older than you, so I identify with characters who aren't kids, and the game supports that just fine.

This argument is getting silly, though.

For whatever it's worth, when I say Zevran is at adore, that's what the PC approval level says -- I didn't make that up.  If you're on the xbox, you won't see that though, so I can understand your confusion.

Have a great day 

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 février 2010 - 11:25 .

[soteria]

If it's just a different play style, then why did you even use it as an argument for Wynne not being that great in the first place?

You're really getting hung up on details, and failing to address the larger points I'm making. Either you don't have an answer, or you're too concerned about nitpicking things like whether Arl Eamon said "anyone with a mabari" or "anyone with a leftover ham bone." I don't care. It doesn't even matter what age Bhelen is--whether your warden is 18 or 28 you still look like a kid to Wynne--and if you're just going to distract the discussion with ancillary details...

You're obviously more interested in nitpicking than actually discussing anythring relevant.  I'm done.

Modifié par soteria, 10 février 2010 - 11:43 .

[ejoslin]

soteria wrote...

If it's just a different play style, then why did you even use it as an argument for Wynne not being that great in the first place?

You're really getting hung up on details, and failing to address the larger points I'm making. Either you don't have an answer, or you're too concerned about nitpicking things like whether Arl Eamon said "anyone with a mabari" or "anyone with a leftover ham bone." I don't care. It doesn't even matter what age Bhelen is--whether your warden is 18 or 28 you still look like a kid to Wynne--and if you're just going to distract the discussion with ancillary details, I'm done.

Excuse me?  You are seriously misreading my posts.  I will say that Wynne is not essential -- she's not.  I've played entire playthroughs without her.  ALL the companions are good, though -- but none of them are essential.  

"Anyone with a mabari" means that Bob can walk in and have his mabari challenge the throne.  "anyone with a hambone" means that YOUR mabari isn't loyal enough to fight.  But I also said I didn't care, it's pretty irrelevant.

Peace!

Edit: And no matter how Wynne views your character, your relationships are NONE of her business.  Again, with Alistair, she sounds concerned and it's not a bad conversation.  With Zevran, it's a horrible conversation, and unless you've seen it, you really can't say I'm wrong about that.  And for people who have seen it, they're NOT saying I'm wrong about it.  It really is that bad!

My problems with Wynne have nothing to do with whether she's a good healer. In fact, she's a fictional character and what I think of her depends very much on what character I'm playing.  I happened to write a lot of what I said on a city elf just after the gauntlet -- it's very clear in this thread that that is what it's about.  This play through, though  I don't use her at all, I don't dislike her.  Her personal quest is done, after the landsmeet I'll get her apology, and she'll talk to me at the gates.  All is good.

Second edit: I guess I just don't understand the points you are trying to make, because I thought I was addressing them.  Anyway, this has gone nowhere, so I doubt I'll write anything else about it (hah, that doesn't mean I can't change my mind).  Take care and have fun!

I also cut out a more inflammatory comment. I have no interest in getting into flame wars over fictional characters.

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 février 2010 - 12:13 .

[ejoslin]

It's been awhile since we've had some Wynne-hate so . . .



Tonight when killing the slavers, Wynne of course shares her opinion and I tell her to keep them to herself. I STILL kill the slavers, which is what she wanted (of course I killed them, I hate them) and she STILL disapproved for -18.



So her disapproval there was not about slavers at all! It's about ego! *grin*

[Addai]

LOL That's the funniest Wynne story ever.

[Cuddlezarro]

lol Ejoslin

[maxernst]

Was that the first group at the door or the second group? The first group I intimidated out of the picture and never fought and the second group--well, I negotiated and Wynne and Alistair said their piece, but I don't remember seeing a dialogue option to tell them to shut up. I ended up fighting them anyway and don't think I got any disapproval (I was pushing for a deal where they leave the elves, but they wouldn't take it).

[ejoslin]

It's when Caladrius (the head slaver) starts begging for mercy and offers to use the elves' life force to enhance your own. Wynne says something about it being blood magic and she hopes the warden isn't considering it. My warden told her to keep her opinions to herself, and then proceeded to tell Caladrius to stuff it then killed him. Wynne disapproves, -18.



*sigh* Another play through where Wynne ignores my poor warden at the gates, I suppose . . .

[Archereon]

@the one who said Wynne was being an idiot for yelling at you for using blood magic:



You do realize that Blood magic almost invaribly leads to serious **** ups?



Usually involving demons coming and pwning everyone, or, if the chant has any truth to it, bringing the wrath of a god down on the world.



The fact that Blood Magic requires direct sacrifice of life force is alone something to be wary of it for. Anyone who can fuel their spells with the life of their enemies could become pretty damn near unstoppable.



And finally, every blood mage we see in the game minus Jowan (who's just some sap who got in over his head) and one or two repentant Malificars is a freaking psychopath.

[ejoslin]

Archereon wrote...

@the one who said Wynne was being an idiot for yelling at you for using blood magic:

You do realize that Blood magic almost invaribly leads to serious **** ups?

Usually involving demons coming and pwning everyone, or, if the chant has any truth to it, bringing the wrath of a god down on the world.

The fact that Blood Magic requires direct sacrifice of life force is alone something to be wary of it for. Anyone who can fuel their spells with the life of their enemies could become pretty damn near unstoppable.

And finally, every blood mage we see in the game minus Jowan (who's just some sap who got in over his head) and one or two repentant Malificars is a freaking psychopath.

My MageWarden was completely not a psychopath.  Heh, gogo Irving for telling Wynne to shut up about Grey Warden magic!  And Rogue ranger pets are great sources for life force.  Alistair isn't too bad either when I forget to have Zevran call his wolf . . .

[Addai]

Archereon wrote...

The fact that Blood Magic requires direct sacrifice of life force is alone something to be wary of it for. Anyone who can fuel their spells with the life of their enemies could become pretty damn near unstoppable.

And finally, every blood mage we see in the game minus Jowan (who's just some sap who got in over his head) and one or two repentant Malificars is a freaking psychopath.

You can already use your enemies' life force to power your spells in the Entropy school.

It's true that you don't see an example of a mage in the game who uses blood magic for good.  Unless, of course, you're playing a mage Warden who's using it against the darkspawn.  Which is what we're talking about. 

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I hardly find Wynne's disapproval or preaching to be any serious threat to my authroity. her nagging about relationships, I think, stems from her own bitterness. She hook line and sinker eats up the Circle dogma, she is practically the walking advertisement for the Circle. Mages are not allowed to be normal and happy. Thus, she seems pretty offended by msot attempts to have any sort of normal life. In her eyes, as a Warden, you should probably be condemned to the same miserable fate she is.



When she starts nagging me about my relationship with whoever, I pretty much tell her off, and if I'm playing my favorite mage, who really hates her because she's such a Circle tool, I tell her off pretty harshly. My noble might be a little kinder, like "Yes, Wynne, that's very nice, now here's some lovely cake, why don't you go ****** off into your tent and knit me a new blanket or darn socks and keep your sanctimonious nose ot of mine and Alistair's business, yes?"



Beyond her irritating stories and plattitudes about the grey Wardens, and her irritating habit of butting into my personal business, I find her more useful as a spellcaster than Morrigan. mainly because I'm either playing a mage or rogue who can do their own crowd control, and her healing and buff abilities really come in handy.



My human characters I play are usually very young, as that seems fitting giving the setting and circumstance. That certainly does not give her the carte blanche to to talk down to me like some apprentice. I might be young, but I'm taking care of the business that all the old geezers in ferelden are too busy with their heads stuffed up their butts to take care of. regardless of age, the fact that I'm doing my job extremely well without help frommy "elders" pretty much makes me mature and responsible enough to handle my own business.



And further more, just who made her the standing authority on what a grey warden should be? She's rarely ever left the tower, all she knows is from books and crap. What does she know about the Wardens?



Just where does she get off that two Grey wardens can't "caboodle", when she's going on about Alistair? Really? So she knows all about Warden relationships then? Two grey Wardens are never allowed to care for each other and fall in love? That automatically, we'll just toss our duty to the four winds and run off to live in sin? Did she get it from a book? And Zevran. On what authroity does she speak that my Warden is not "behaving like a Warden should" by means of her relationship with Zevran? Really? She knows what a "proper Warden" should behave like? In case you haven't heard, lady, Grey Wardens recruit murderers, rapists, thieves, traitors, and BLOOD MAGES...so just how is being in an intimate relationship with an assassin "unbecoming" or whatever? I didn't know the morality police had represenitives in Weisshaupt. learn something new every day.



Really, misery loves company, and Wynne runs the franchise, methinks. it's clear she really has no clue of how the world turns outside of her beloved circle.

[Addai]

I can't wait to hear Wynne's sermon about Morrigan. This had better be good or I'm going to be disappointed.

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

I can't wait to hear Wynne's sermon about Morrigan. This had better be good or I'm going to be disappointed.

Screen shots, PLEASE! Or at least a transcription!

Pretty please?