1396 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Sooo.... Wynne goes to Tevinter after the Blight is ended. Seat of blood magic extraordinaire. What is she thinking??

[Cuddlezarro]

oh crap it seems I have to retake all the pictures since I didnt ge tthe entire conversation (i missed out some of the best parts >_<)

but I have no problem with it since I find it hilarious Wynn comes off as more bloodthirsty about you being a bloodmage than freaking knight commander Gregor infact Gregior doesnt even want to kill you

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 18 février 2010 - 06:14 .

[ejoslin]

Wynne's priorities are pretty messed up. She's more concerned with appearances than really taking care of business.

[Sabriana]

She'll single-handedly wipe all blood magic off the Tevinter menu. All by herself, because she is wise and powerful, Addai. How come you didn't know that? <sarcasm emoticon goes here>



Her remark when leaving (after the 'ashes') is a kicker. "I hope the darkspawn wins."

Well, dear, if the darkspawn wins, all of Ferelden loses. Including the circle and the chantry, and I doubt the darkspawn will treat the ashes with tender, loving care.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

She'll single-handedly wipe all blood magic off the Tevinter menu. All by herself, because she is wise and powerful, Addai. How come you didn't know that?

Her remark when leaving (after the 'ashes') is a kicker. "I hope the darkspawn wins."
Well, dear, if the darkspawn wins, all of Ferelden loses. Including the circle and the chantry, and I doubt the darkspawn will treat the ashes with tender, loving care.

That comment of hers shocked me.  It's far worse when you get that dialog than when she just tries to kill you outright.  It actually was what started me disliking her.  She wasn't there to help in the blight.  She was there so she could be there to help stop the blight, if that makes sense.  In her mind it was the noble thing for her to do, and something that others would respect her for.

[Cuddlezarro]

ok I retook the pictures for Wynn snitches on you for being a blood mage (tower destroyed ending) Ill be editing them for size and uploading them in a sec and if your wondering why the annoying french girl looks different in some of my pics its because im using some of my original screenshots to fill in the blanks

EDIT: here they are Ill take the "Wynn gets put in her place" pics in a second










Wynn says this if you deny being a blood mage or try dodge the issue

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 18 février 2010 - 06:45 .

[Addai]

Sabriana wrote...

She'll single-handedly wipe all blood magic off the Tevinter menu. All by herself, because she is wise and powerful, Addai. How come you didn't know that?

Either that or using blood magic to help Shale reclaim her dwarven nature (a commendable impulse in itself, naturally) is somehow less egregious than using it to fight abominations and darkspawn?

Again, logic and consistency are not Wynne's strong suits.

[Sabriana]

Wynne sounds selfish and that line is so very bad it could be called evil. If they just had her say "I hope the darkspawn kills you" I would have not been so shocked. She really doesn't understand that the darkspawn winning dooms all of Ferelden.



@ Cuddlezarro

I'm glad you could re-take them, now hand them over

BTW that 'french girl' wouldn't be half as annoying if she didn't insist on ninja-loving™ my PCs all the time.

[Cuddlezarro]

first batch of pictures where edited into my last post

edit: I will also like to point out that while Irving goes hostile with the rest of the NPCs in that area he doesnt attack you AT ALL

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 18 février 2010 - 06:50 .

[ejoslin]

It's a good thing Irving doesn't attack. He's pretty badass in the fade with his lightening spells.

[Cuddlezarro]

ok heres Irving telling her its "grey warden magic" though to be honest I did roleplay my character having been given such a book because I didnt make a deal with the desire demon to get blood magic since it would be completely OoC (dear Artemis has a heart of gold)

[ejoslin]

One thing great about this exchange, no matter what you pick, if you pass the first persuade check, Greagoir and Irving both take up for you. It is so easy to leave Wynne in the circle at that point.

[e-ver]

Do I think Wynne is a very well written character? Absolutely!

Was there ever a character in the ~15 years I've been playing games that I've disliked more? Absolutely not!

When I played the game for the first time, I was quite concerned about my companions' approval ratings (I usually feel that way when I play a game for the first time, I try not to upset NPCs, solve quests in the best possible manner etc., I guess I'm afraid to miss something otherwise), so I usually chose dialogue options that I knew (or  thought) would make the NPC in question happy.

I kept that up until the slavery quest in the Alienage (yes, even when she gave me "relationship advice" concerning Zevran) where my character (Dalish elf, who was pretty much a saint) allowed the Tevinter slaver (who was on the brink of death, because just a few minutes earlier my elf had disagreed to make some shady deal with him and had fought him for doing horrible things to elves) to make a new offer and told him:

"I suggest you come up with a new offer. Fast."

His answer was:

"Were I to... use the life force of the remaining slaves here, I could... augment your physical health a great deal! Allow me to leave this place alive and I would be more than happy to do this little service for you."

My character was about to tell him that no, under no circumstances would she consider such a thing when Wynne starts berating me:

""Little service?" He is talking of blood magic. Surely you would not consider such a thing?"

This was the point when we both, my saintly character and I, had enough and told her to keep her opinions to herself. Of course I didn't accept the deal, but still got -18 approval from Wynne. It was this very moment when I decided that I would never ever again suck up to Wynne.

I mean, she was with my character a large part of the game (on my first playthrough I just needed a healer and I never give Morrigan the Spirit Healer specialization, in my opinion it just doesn't fit her character - by now I've learned how to play the game and can easily do without a healer and Wynne dies in the Circle Tower or stays at camp) and had seen this character make all the right choices, but still she didn't trust her judgement enough to believe she would do the right thing in the situation with the slaver? Gahh!

(I know that ejoslin already mentioned this, but I just had to point it out again, I'm still enraged whenever I think about it. Not really enraged, it's just a game of course, but I think you all know what I mean.)

The other things have also been mentioned already, for example how she had no problem taking almost all the credit for clearing out the Tower when talking to Irving, when in truth she still would be sitting in the room between the apprentice sleeping quarters and the library, using all her magical energy to keep a barrier in place if my character hadn't come along. And don't get me started on her relationship advice!

Another thing that just ticks me off, is how Wynne is so absolutely sure that she and she alone knows what the Grey Wardens stand for.
There is this dialogue that starts with "Have you heard much about the Grey Wardens of old?", I'm sure we all remember it. She tells you this story about how the Wardens fought during a blight, sacrificing their own lives and saving every single non-Warden ("They formed a shield of their own bodies and held that line until the archdemon was dead and the last darkspawn lay trampled in the dirt. And then, demanding neither reward nor recognition for their sacrifice, the Grey Wardens departed.") Then she prattles on about the Wardens "always defending us from the darkspawn, taking losses so we do not have to...", but what she doesn't get is that the Wardens will do anything to stop a blight. She has this heroic fantasy construction in her mind and forces it on your character (who, contrary to her actually is a Warden) whenever she has an opportunity.
There is a dialogue with Ser Gilmore in the Noble origin that makes pretty clear that the Wardens are not at all the knights in shining armour (Gilmore: "Scribe Aldous once told me that the Grey Wardens used to burn entire villages to keep them out of darkspawn hands." PC: "So they'll kill people to protect them?" Gilmore: "If they have to. A few villages are a small price to pay to save the world.") Wynne wants them to be.

I really wish I could tell her, that I know why she wanted to travel with my character so badly in the first place, because I don't believe her "left things unfinished at Ostagar... will see this through..." story in the slightest (as proven by her childish "hope the Darkspawn win" comment). I think in truth she knew, that if she stayed at the Tower the Templars would find out sooner or later (rather sooner I'd say, because they'd be extra careful after what happened with Uldred) that she has *something* from the Fade within her. Benevolent or evil, spirit or demon, I doubt the Templars would care much, again, especially not after what happened with Uldred. Wynne knows, that her only chance for survival is to get away from the Tower. How I wish I could have said something along those lines in the game and unmask her for the hypocrite she is!

Modifié par Allerleihrau, 18 février 2010 - 07:39 .

[ejoslin]

I like you, Allerleihrau.

[Cuddlezarro]

yay another person to our little wynn annoys the hell out of us club~



*gives Allerleihrau an official members badge*

[Sabriana]

ejoslin wrote...

I like you, Allerleihrau.

Me too. Very well put.

[e-ver]

@ ejoslin, Cuddlezarro and Sabriana

Aww, thanks! *pins members badge immediately on chest*

I suppose you were just as overjoyed as I was, when you learned that Wynne is one of the few character's you can meet again in Awakening? I mean seriously, of all the NPCs did it have to be her? She has something in her that supposedly get's weaker with the minute, why can't she just die already?

Ah, the possibilities - just imagine her spirit vessel would really weaken the spirit and it would be possible to kill her that way in the game! Now that would be a reason to use her as an active companion... at least for a time.

Hm, this thread seems to bring forth Wynne rage in quantities, that I wasn't even aware of having bottled up. I wonder if this is a healthy thing?

Modifié par Allerleihrau, 18 février 2010 - 07:56 .

[Cuddlezarro]

yeah I wasnt happy about that especially since she was chosen over Leliena(a character who I dislike as much as Wynn) who would have been a bucket load more interesting since the new "origin" is ORLESIAN grey warden and you could have some pretty unique conversations between the both of them since they are both from orlais

plus Wynn either buggered off to tevinter with Shale (poor shale she doesnt deserve the nagging one with her) or dead as dead can be~ in all my endings

also its healthier to talk about it than keep it bottled up... I know I felt better after my Leliena rant in the Zevran fan thread

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 18 février 2010 - 08:04 .

[Sabriana]

I think people are also disappointed. I liked her at first, and then I had to watch her being judgemental, self-righteous without wisdom, and intrusive.

How dare she tell my 25 year old HN that she knows better than her what's going on in her and Zevran's relationship. My PC is not a snot-nosed 15-year old teenager, but a grown woman who is trying to keep everything around her from falling apart after making a great personal sacrifice.

I used to dislike Alistair's rosy-glassed view of the GWs, but Wynne is 1000 times worse. Against her, Alistair is golden. He even admits to my PC that the GWs are not knights and/or heroes.

What really tore it was her "I hope the darkspawn wins". I sat here staring at my monitor, not believing my ears. That was it. I don't mind her leaving, she obviously thinks that she and my PC are incompatible, but that sentence.... Ever since then she either stays at the Tower (good luck, Wynne, I'd recommend staying out of Cullen's way in perpetuity.), or at camp with Leliana.

[Reaverwind]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

yay another person to our little wynn annoys the hell out of us club~

*gives Allerleihrau an official members badge*

Can I get one? I used to like Wynne, myself, UNTIL I rolled a mage. Her hypocrisy becomes glaringly obvious if you've first played a non-mage, to whom she'll tacitly acknowledge that a Warden pretty much gives up their former life, and then play a mage, whom she expects to put her precious Circle above the interests of the Wardens. I take great pleasure in siding with Cullen now.  (Ironically, you can side with him and STILL save Irving.)

Modifié par Reaverwind, 18 février 2010 - 08:11 .

[Cuddlezarro]

How dare she tell my 25 year old HN that she knows better than her what's going on in her and Zevran's relationship. My PC is not a snot-nosed 15-year old teenager, but a grown woman who is trying to keep everything around her from falling apart after making a great personal sacrifice.

ditto



except my characters are guys and happen to be older than yours

[Cuddlezarro]

Reaverwind wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

yay another person to our little wynn annoys the hell out of us club~

*gives Allerleihrau an official members badge*

Can I get one? I used to like Wynne, myself, UNTIL I rolled a mage. Her hypocrisy becomes glaringly obvious if you've first played a non-mage, to whom she'll tacitly acknowledge that a Warden pretty much gives up their former life, and then play a mage, whom she expects to put her precious Circle above the interests of the Wardens. I take great pleasure in siding with Cullen now.  (Ironically, you can side with him and STILL save Irving.)

*hands you a badge*

if any one wants I could photoshop a badge of some sort or banner~ but ill only do that if enough people actually want it

[e-ver]

Sabriana wrote...

I think people are also disappointed. I liked her at first, and then I had to watch her being judgemental, self-righteous without wisdom, and intrusive.

Initially I liked her too. But as you say, her self-righteousness and judgement quickly became intolerable. I can't even stand the comments where she shows a hint of awareness of how much she is annoying the main character (I'm especially referring to a line that goes something like "But I'd better stop talking, lest I wear out my welome."), because the way she says it, seems to imply (to me at least) that in truth he is thinking "I can see that I have upset you, immature children never tolerate the wise advice of people who by default know better, simply because they are older."

I know, Wynne just can't win with me, I admit it. But I tried to like her, I really did. Acutally I even made a character once with the sole purpose of getting along well with Wynne. Human Noble, who would have seen her as a mother substitute and looked to her for guidance. I really thought it would work... I ended up hating this character as well, simpering fool that he was.

How dare she tell my 25 year old HN that she knows better than her what's going on in her and Zevran's relationship. My PC is not a snot-nosed 15-year old teenager, but a grown woman who is trying to keep everything around her from falling apart after making a great personal sacrifice.

I agree, oh how I agree. Morrigan has this great line for Wynne: "I owe you no explanation. There is no writing on my forehead that say: 'Please, guide me!'" Couldn't agree more with her.

I used to dislike Alistair's rosy-glassed view of the GWs, but Wynne is 1000 times worse. Against her, Alistair is golden. He even admits to my PC that the GWs are not knights and/or heroes.

There are times when Alistair is causes me to grind my teeth (a little), but yes, nothing compared to Wynne.

What really tore it was her "I hope the darkspawn wins". I sat here staring at my monitor, not believing my ears. That was it. I don't mind her leaving, she obviously thinks that she and my PC are incompatible, but that sentence.... Ever since then she either stays at the Tower (good luck, Wynne, I'd recommend staying out of Cullen's way in perpetuity.), or at camp with Leliana.

I have never actually gotten that line in the game. I found something very close in the toolset ("I hope the darkspawn take you. You are no better than them."), that comes up when she reaches her second crisis. Is this line you're referring to or does she actually say the "darkspawn win" comment?

Modifié par Allerleihrau, 18 février 2010 - 08:36 .

[Cuddlezarro]

I have never actually gotten that line in the game. I found something very close in the toolset ("I hope the darkspawn take you. You are no better than them."), that comes up when she reaches her second crisis. Is this line you're referring to or does she actually say the "darkspawn win" comment?

that would be the line she was referring to Wynn says it if you defile the ashes and she isnt in the party when you do it



I prefer taking her along though and letting my dog tear her face off

[Sabriana]

That would be it. I'd preferred if she said "I hope the darkspawn kills you", maybe I would not have been so shocked. It would still be childish and evil, but 'take you'? It didn't help that my PC just came back from Orzammar and saw what can happen to a woman should the darkspawn 'take' her.

Any which way, that would really be a blow to Ferelden's chances. My PC is not only half of the GW force in Ferelden, she is also the leader of that force.



@ Cuddlezarro



lol, not that you're angry or nothing You know I can almost understand Leliana going homicidal, even though she too keeps rattling on about how great my PC is, and how important it is to fight the 'darkness' and save the 'beauty' in Ferelden. But at least she was in the Chantry for two years, and subject to a nice chantry brainwash.

Wynne has no excuse like that. She doesn't even come off as particular devout - ever.