22 réponses à ce sujet

[King Killoth]

after thinking about it for a wail I have come to think that the game that was shown at E3 before the release of DAI was the game we would have gotten if DAI was going to be pc and next gen exclusive but when it was made for the older gen consoles they had to strip down and simplify a lot of the game and that is why DAI seems to have chunks of story and gameplay seemingly cut out. With the news that ME4 will be pc and next gen exclusive we can see the true potential of the frostbite engine and the potential of what the new more powerful pc and consoles can do. I think that if DAI was next gen exclusive that DAI would ahve been a much better and fleshed out game as it stands I think a lot of the issues that people have stated are due to the fact they needed to dumb down the game for the older consoles.

[andy6915]

No offense, but I think you're stating obvious fact here.

[raging_monkey]

So who really cares they thought they could make more money due to people who couldn't upgrade you got your product be happy

[Steelcan]

DA:It's biggest flaws aren't really the fault of outdated hardware

[Panda]

I don't really think this is case. Most annoying bugs of DAI can't really be blamed on old gen hardware like party banter bug. Old gen hardware also doesn't limit cinematic dialogue, story-content, text-size etc. It does limit graphics and textures, but new gen doesn't suffer from bad graphics or textures (though there is some bugs), unlike old gen does. Also old gen is not responsible of Bioware making open world DA with tons of fetch quests, old gen doesn't force to do open world nor leave story-content and dialogue of quests.

[andy6915]

I don't really think this is case. Most annoying bugs of DAI can't really be blamed on old gen hardware like party banter bug. Old gen hardware also doesn't limit cinematic dialogue, story-content, text-size etc. It does limit graphics and textures, but new gen doesn't suffer from bad graphics or textures (though there is some bugs), unlike old gen does. Also old gen is not responsible of Bioware making open world DA with tons of fetch quests, old gen doesn't force to do open world nor leave story-content and dialogue of quests.

 

I did agree with the topic, I do think it held back those versions. And I am posting while playing the PS3 version of DAI right now, but that doesn't stop me from recognizing that my version likely did hold back the next gen versions. I can enjoy something while still admitting it shouldn't have happened.

[Panda]

I did agree with the topic, I do think it held back those versions. And I am posting while playing the PS3 version of DAI right now, but that doesn't stop me from recognizing that my version likely did hold back the next gen versions. I can enjoy something while still admitting it shouldn't have happened.

You are concluding that I'm being delusional and admitting old gen held DAI back? Propably, but not in things that matter.

[andy6915]

You are concluding that I'm being delusional and admitting old gen held DAI back? Propably, but not in things that matter.

 

Delusional? That's a harsh insult, so it's a good thing I didn't say it. I do disagree with you, but that hardly makes me think you're deluded. And note that I never said how much it held it back, just that it did. DAI would still have a lot of the same problems it currently has even if the last gen versions had never been made, that too is something I agree with.

[Panda]

Delusional? That's a harsh insult, so it's a good thing I didn't say it. I do disagree with you, but that hardly makes me think you're deluded. And note that I never said how much it held it back, just that it did. DAI would still have a lot of the same problems it currently has even if the last gen versions had never been made, that too is something I agree with.

 

Nah I don't think it's that harsh. Your comment seemed like you were proposing that I'm unwilling admit problems that came with including DAI. That I might be. But overall I don't think most issues that matter are related to including old gen consoles, well old gen issues are because of that, but not how game appears to new gen users.

[Geth Supremacy]

How exactly did they do that you think?  Did they threaten Bioware or EA?  Did the consoles say they would refuse to load their games if they didn't?  Did the PS3s and 360s blackmail them?

[Panda]

How exactly did they do that you think?  Did they threaten Bioware or EA?  Did the consoles say they would refuse to load their games if they didn't?  Did the PS3s and 360s blackmail them?

 

 

I think it's more like Bioware shooting itself on leg. That I don't agree with cause I don't think last gen is problem with DAI.

[GGGenesis]

I don't really think this is case. Most annoying bugs of DAI can't really be blamed on old gen hardware like party banter bug. Old gen hardware also doesn't limit cinematic dialogue, story-content, text-size etc. 

 

Not true. You have to consider that old gen discs can hold much less data than next gen. A friend of mine works in a game dev company in level design and he told me the product you get at the end has at least significantly less content than originally planned because they have to stick to size limits of discs. If it's not the content they scrap, it's part of the graphics (for how huge DA:I is, it could very well be both). This wasn't too much of a problem back in the PS1 era where games were much more linear so having to insert a new disk halfway through the game wasn't so bad. If the game was only available as a download, then sure, you can have more content.

[Panda]

Not true. You have to consider that old gen discs can hold much less data than next gen. A friend of mine works in a game dev company in level design and he told me the product you get at the end has at least significantly less content than originally planned because they have to stick to size limits of discs. If it's not the content they scrap, it's part of the graphics (for how huge DA:I is, it could very well be both). This wasn't too much of a problem back in the PS1 era where games were much more linear so having to insert a new disk halfway through the game wasn't so bad. If the game was only available as a download, then sure, you can have more content.

 

Yep but problem for me is lack of story content. DAI itself has huge amount of content in terms of graphics and having open world that you can roam around hundreds of hours. I don't think added dialogue, text and choices would have made game heavier at least in same aspect as having open-world, lot of textures and graphical things does. Though I'm not no-where close to expert on these ^^;

[Geth Supremacy]

 also if disc content if the reason PS3 is blueray just like current gen.  PS3 games don't come on 4 discs (or have controllers that run on AA batteries hahahaha)  (I don't care about console wars but that IS funny!) like its 1995 so 360 must be the only one living that thug life and bending EA to its will.

[Toasted Llama]

How exactly did they do that you think?  Did they threaten Bioware or EA?  Did the consoles say they would refuse to load their games if they didn't?  Did the PS3s and 360s blackmail them?

 

I know, right? Old-gen consoles lacking the proper hardware to handle the same amount of information and data as current-gen consoles is all just lies and a conspiracy!

I bet I can play Inquisition on my N64...

[Pressedcat]

What you've got to think about is how much would have been lost from DAI if it hadn't been released on the last-gen consoles.

If 20% of forecast sales were going to be for last-gens, excluding them would have resulted in a budget only 80% as big. That would have equated to some serious cuts anyway.

BioWare no doubt would like to design their games for the most powerful machines on the market, but realistically they have to balance cutting edge technology vs install base.

Please note all figures are brought to you via my posterior and may not be accurate.

[Eternal Dust]

Old gen was just a scapegoat. All of that content will be brought back in the form of DLC. 

[ashwind]

The only thing I blame last gen for is da fugly hair. But then... bioware may not need any help in making ugly hair...

[King Killoth]

Yep but problem for me is lack of story content. DAI itself has huge amount of content in terms of graphics and having open world that you can roam around hundreds of hours. I don't think added dialogue, text and choices would have made game heavier at least in same aspect as having open-world, lot of textures and graphical things does. Though I'm not no-where close to expert on these ^^;

I would think that a game on the next gen consoles would have more story as they are built to handle more data every script and dialogue spoken takes up X amount of data and on the new platforms you can have greater amount of data then on the older models. I believe that a lot of story and world content was removed or dumbed down to make them able to work on the older consoles. just look at what is being said and shown about the new Mass Effect a game made by the same company but exclusively for the next gen platforms. I bet you will see in the up coming months a game that surpasses DAI in all aspects due to the power and performance of the new hardware capabilities. All the things we saw at the E3 conference for DAI where going to be in the game but needed to be cut to make up for the people still using the older consoles.

[SnakeCode]

I don't think you can say outdated hardware held Inquisition back when there are games that are technical marvels whose scope puts DA:I to shame on last gen.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

I think forstbite's inadequacy for RPG genre, and multiplatform development, in addition to flawed design, is what held back DAI

[Viper371]

With the news that ME4 will be pc and next gen exclusive we can see the true potential of the frostbite engine and the potential of what the new more powerful pc and consoles can do.

Not really.  Current consoles will be antiquated hardware compared to most gaming PCs by december 2016.

Just look at RAM.  PS4 and Xbox One uses about 3gb of memory for their OS.  The actual number is 3gb for Xbox, 3.5gb for PS4.  Out of 8gb of Ram.  So, the developpers has 4.5-5gb RAM to work with.  My PC has 16gb memory, soon 24.  Yet the game will never use more than 5-6gb of RAM.

 

The CPU is a low end AMD, to cut on power consumption and heat generation.  It's similar to AMD A-series, inferior to the FX series, inferior to Intel i5 for gaming applications.

The GPU is a custom radeon 7000 series.  For the Xbox, it's similar to a Radeon 7790 while the PS4 is similar to a 7850.  Two years ago, I had a Radeon 7950 overclocked, that is a superior product to what the consoles were offering me.  That was two years ago.  Now, I have a 290x, way ahead of the consoles.

 

Let's talk API.  My system supports AMD Mantle, way better than Direct X 11.  By the end of July, so, definately before December 2016, I will have Windows 10, wich will support DX 12.  Both DX12 and Mantle API have the ability to "talk" directly to the hardware, resulting in increased performances for games (technically, all 3D applications, but let's not kid ourselves here, gamers are the big market for these APIs and the related products).

 

By december 2016, I'll probably have an Intel i7 CPU to replace my i5.  Maybe a newer video card too.  My SSD is already faster than any consoles hard drive, wich is slower than my WD Black I use for storage.

My system is far from being at the top.  I helped a friend pick parts for his new computer just yesterday, and he spends in excess of 4000$ on his gaming rig, with the latest i7 and 32gb RAM.

So, basically, my middle of the line PC will be at least 2x more powerful than next gen consoles by december 2016.  And I'm being generous to the console side.

 

Consoles are great in that they democratize access to games, especially at a time we needed to toy with config.sys and autoexec.bat to load himem.sys in higher memory and stuff like that (forgive me if I got it wrong, it's been ages after all ).  But in terms of hardware, they are released at about the same performance of a low end gaming PC every 3-4 years.  There's not much choice, consumers would unlikely pay 1000$ every 3-4 years for a complete new machine that is incompatible with older titles.

 

True, they are dedicated to gaming and don't really need excess stuff the PC may need wich would reduce its performances.  Still, I have a lot more raw power to tap on than any console.  So with every game, I am dragged down by consoles specs.  And ME4 will not change that, and I will not see Frostbite's true power, because they can't develop a game on all platforms with Frostbite's true power, the consoles would never run it.

 

Consoles are a must, because a simple machine designed to do one thing is way simpler than a PC.  You insert the disc and it plays.  Compared to a PC, that's a lot simpler for a lot of people.  And I'm glad they exists, because at some points, most game developpers would probably have gone bankrupt if it wasn't for the console market.  And with their popularity, they let big studios make big games with voice-actors and full motion videos & all the gizmos I admit I tend to like.

Consoles are great, but they will always drag PC down.  We will always have to compromise and what we can get in a game, what kind of AI we can play against to adjust for consoles limitation.  That holds true for DA:I, that will hold true for ME:Andromeda and that will still be true for Dragon Age 4. 

 

I just wished there could be a way to efficiently design games that will take advantage of a PC's true power while still permitting the consoles to run the game.  But different experience on different platforms might create logistical problems.  Still, doing that would make consoles loses market shares...

[AresKeith]

I don't think you can say outdated hardware held Inquisition back when there are games that are technical marvels whose scope puts DA:I to shame on last gen.

 

Some features were cut from DAI because last-gen couldn't handle it