40 réponses à ce sujet

[Ariella]

You know, nothing about my suggestion is meant to imply the Maker doesn't exist.

 

My apologies. I missed your comment, as I focused on the Last Crusade ref. When I did mention the thing with the Ashes it was in context of comparing it to the Grail in Last Crusade. The Knight drank from the Grail periodically to keep himself alive and thus was mortal and still aging and not a spirit, which the Guardian truly was. Another place to look is Telanna in JoH. The spirit that took her persona is also similar to Cole in that it reshaped itself. Sounds as if strength of will is as much a factor as anything else.

[The Baconer]

It could.

Unless if you have a documented and cited listing of all their properties and effects and residual exposure to them can cause over the course of centuries.

 

Or it couldn't. A more practical assumption to make given out current knowledge of spirits and the like.

 

 

Honesty this is a theory that stinks of trying to explain faith as logic.

 

It's a theory that makes sense within the current lore. It has nothing to do with faith or the lack thereof.

[Master Warder Z_]

Or it couldn't.

Boyo your thoughts to me are irrelevant.

Its a speculative argument based on no hard logic or evidence but case circumstance and assumption.

Try to hype it as much as you like as more.

[The Baconer]

Boyo your thoughts to me are irrelevant.

Its a speculative argument based on no hard logic or evidence but case circumstance and assumption.

Try to hype it as much as you like as more.

 

[FemHawke FTW]

This is a pretty interesting topic OP, the Guardian at the Temple of Sacred Ashes does act a lot like how we now know spirits can behave in the world of Dragon Age. Would be interesting to see if the writers ever address it.

[XEternalXDreamsX]

Hey guys, sorry to jump in and kind of derail the topic. I was trying to get to know Cole better one playthrough. I was doing his personal quest dealing with the amulet.

I got the amulet via war table mission. Gave it to Cole. We got a cutscene with a woman. At the end, I had input on whether he would make her forget him. Then nothing. It's still in the log and I really wanted to complete the whole human/spirit arc for the first time. I am doing a new playthrough and going to try again. Is it always going to happen? Anyway to prevent it? I couldn't even bring him to the final mission. Poor guy.

[Deztyn]

Actually, given that a lot of the game is based on debating the credibility of Andrastean faith, I think it makes a good topic for lore speculation. Did the "Maker" really leave? Or was he never there to begin with? Maybe the pantheon of Old Gods wasn't cast down by this "Maker", but simply succumb to another cataclysm. One that left the "throne of the gods" empty and created the Blight. Maybe the "Maker" was one of the Old Gods, and it's his betrayal Mythal speaks of.

 

In other words, it's a pretty legit topic to debate.

 

Sure, no reason not ot debate it. I was referring specifically to the people who refuse to believe in the possibility, and need to explain everything that could be considered miraculous as magic/lyrium/spirits did it. Take the Divine that we meet in the fade. The game goes out of it's way to keep what she is ambiguous. Most people absolutely insist that she was a fade spirit who took on Justinia's form.

 

 

Really? When there's magic everywhere, you know there could be entities more powerful than you, but at what point do they become gods? I'd say that what fantasy does is muddy the definition of godhood still further than in real life. Is it truly a god if it can be killed or imprisoned such as it seems that the Old Gods and Elven Gods can? Given that you have magic, how does a god generate a bona fide miracle?

 

There's a large difference between "entities more powerful than you" and a god in the sense the Maker is intended to be a god. One created everything including magic, the others are products of his creation.

 

You know, nothing about my suggestion is meant to imply the Maker doesn't exist.

 

It was just a general comment.

[YourFunnyUncle]

There's a large difference between "entities more powerful than you" and a god in the sense the Maker is intended to be a god. One created everything including magic, the others are products of his creation.

And there's deliberately no more evidence for such a God in DA than there is in real life. In fact they've gone out of their way to make sure that there isn't, so you can choose to RP a believer or not as you choose, as you can't find out for sure.

[andy6915]

Remember, there was also a LOT of lyrium under that temple, which is why Oghren makes his one intelligent observation of the entire game: maybe THAT is why the ashes work. 

 

That is exactly why. You mean to tell me the fanbase didn't already know that as common knowledge? The ashes are basically a powered up version of the lifestones in DAO-

 

http://dragonage.wik.../wiki/Lifestone

 

The ashes have been sitting in a temple surrounded by the most pure and concentrated lyrium in Thedas, it only makes sense that the ashes would start take on "miraculous" traits. Andraste's holy ashes would have been useless dust if her followers had taken her ashes anywhere else to rest forever. This might actually be partly why it was chosen as the site that Justinia would be sacrificed and the orb powered up, the lyrium could add to it. That's also why the explosion was so legendarily impressive, you know what the lore says about what happens when and if lyrium explodes. And with as much pure lyrium as that mountain had in it... What might have been a small explosion turned into a massive one because it caused a chain reaction with all the lyrium in the mountain blowing up along with it.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Why would Andraste's ashes become magic healing dust and not all the rest of the random dust in the temple?

[andy6915]

Why would Andraste's ashes become magic healing dust and not all the rest of the random dust in the temple?

 

Who said the rest wasn't? It's not like any of the party started licking random parts of the temple to see if it healed them. And even then, the ashes might have simply been placed on the biggest and purest vein in the mountain for all we know.

[Deztyn]

And there's deliberately no more evidence for such a God in DA than there is in real life. In fact they've gone out of their way to make sure that there isn't, so you can choose to RP a believer or not as you choose, as you can't find out for sure.

 

I'm not talking about RPing a nonbeliever.

 

I'll say again, I'm talking about some posters complete unwillingness to even entertain the remote possibility that a truly omnipotent god could exist in the fantasy world where the writers created a religion and have gone out of their way to make sure there is nothing that contradicts that religion. These posters will loudly proclaim that the Maker is not real, and that the Inquisition should have featured the option to tear apart the Chantry forever and ever and denounce the Maker as false god (They clearly have no idea how faith works if they expected that to happen). They will take something that is left deliberately ambiguous (Corypheus's statements about the Golden/Black City. Fade Justinia. Andraste's Ashes) and declare that simply because they can come up with alternate theory it proves that the Maker doesn't exist.

 

That attitude is ridiculous.

[YourFunnyUncle]

I'm not talking about RPing a nonbeliever.

I'll say again, I'm talking about some posters complete unwillingness to even entertain the remote possibility that a truly omnipotent god could exist in the fantasy world where the writers created a religion and have gone out of their way to make sure there is nothing that contradicts that religion. These posters will loudly proclaim that the Maker is not real, and that the Inquisition should have featured the option to tear apart the Chantry forever and ever and denounce the Maker as false god (They clearly have no idea how faith works if they expected that to happen). They will take something that is left deliberately ambiguous (Corypheus's statements about the Golden/Black City. Fade Justinia. Andraste's Ashes) and declare that simply because they can come up with alternate theory it proves that the Maker doesn't exist.

That attitude is ridiculous.

There are people who will loudly trumpet extreme sides of each in-game argument despite them all clearly being designed to be complex areas with no obvious"right" solution. It seems some people like to shoehorn black and white views onto landscapes that are clearly many shades of grey. Maybe they enjoy extending their RPing onto the forums. Maybe they are trolling. Maybe they just don't get it. Maybe a mixture of the three...

I'm an atheist and I don't rule out the fact that a God could exist in the real world. I just think it's hugely unlikely given the lack of credible evidence and the plethora of contradictory "true religions". I generally tend to have my characters reach the same conclusion although this time I'm RPing an Andrastean.

[Master Warder Z_]

Andrastian o...o

[Deztyn]

There are people who will loudly trumpet extreme sides of each in-game argument despite them all clearly being designed to be complex areas with no obvious"right" solution. It seems some people like to shoehorn black and white views onto landscapes that are clearly many shades of grey. Maybe they enjoy extending their RPing onto the forums. Maybe they are trolling. Maybe they just don't get it. Maybe a mixture of the three...

 
I never ever troll. Or RP. Ever. Really.

Mage-Templar debates are the worst for this. At it's core it's about whether you value safety for the majority or liberty for a minority. The devoutly pro-mage fans in particular tend to completely disregard the idea that safety is even a real concern and deny the many good reasons to believe the Circles are needed and the Templar Order has a place. Most Templar fans I've seen take a more balanced approach and recognize that the system sucks for mages (with differing beliefs about how badly and how much the system needs improving) but favor the pragmatic approach to public safety.

 

I'm an atheist and I don't rule out the fact that a God could exist in the real world. I just think it's hugely unlikely given the lack of credible evidence and the plethora of contradictory "true religions". I generally tend to have my characters reach the same conclusion although this time I'm RPing an Andrastean.

Agnostic atheist here. I am far too cynical to ever firmly believe in something that can't be proven. But I respect the people who can. I think faith can be a wonderful thing, and by it's definition doesn't need evidence. One of the reasons I find it so irksome to see people dismiss the Andrastian faith and it's importance to the characters of the setting. Particularly because while the Elven Pantheon and Tevinter Old Gods have been clearly defined as beings beyond most mortals but not capital G Gods, there is no lore based reason to believe that The Maker isn't real and isn't that kind of god. Although, if the new lead writer doesn't stray from the original gameplan, it won't ever be proved or disproved because it's intended to be a matter of true faith.