178 réponses à ce sujet

[Ellanya]

For an such experienced studio to put so little effort into the customization of our character is a big disappointment.

 

 

 

 

Not quite agree. 

CC is amazing - facial configuration, skin, eyes, mouths. noses, etc., EXCEPT... yes, HAIR!  So poor choice, so boring hairstyles!

Please, Bioware, give us more choice and wonderful beautiful looking hair in the next DA! You have made absolutely stunning beautiful game, so many beautiful armor for our inquisitors (not casual clothes for Quizzy  ), you can do it, I believe it!

And yes, if would be DLC - hair and clothes - I would buy it!

[Felya87]

Is not like an appearance pack would be such taboo thing too. Many games sell different appearance pack, I have sometimes difficult finding "real" DLC when looking around the PSN.

If BioWare doesn't have any artist capable/with the necessary time to make hair, can't they even ask modders to make some hair models, and then distribute them on all platforms, free. but making clear is something made by modder X? Or, even better, making a little contest for would-be modelers, and than release the winner's work on all platforms?

 

Is not like there is a lack of opportunities to create something good.

[Basher of Glory]

Of course a DLC with hair and casual outfits would not be a "taboo thing".

 

The "taboo thing" would be to charge us for it, because

 

1) In my eyes they owe us

2) Other companies add this kind of DLC as a gift, for free

3) For their reputation It would be worth more than countless empty words of the marketing nerds

[Felya87]

 

2) Other companies add this kind of DLC as a gift, for free

 

 

Only some. Many outfits are under paymant. Sometimes are free, but is not a rule. And bigger appearance pack are almost always not free.

 

Of course a free hair pack would be better, but a good appearance pack with different hairstyles and different clothes to wear in Skyhold would be ok if at the right price (less than the avvar pack).

 

What I don't understand: is work to do make new skyhold stuff? beds, mounts, armours? than why not put some of that work into hair and clothes too?

If they can find the time to model beds, thrones and furnishing, why not do some hair too? I'm starting to think they have no people who can model hair at this point.

[midnight tea]

What I don't understand: is work to do make new skyhold stuff? beds, mounts, armours? than why not put some of that work into hair and clothes too?

If they can find the time to model beds, thrones and furnishing, why not do some hair too? I'm starting to think they have no people who can model hair at this point.

 

Beds and mounts are far easier to do than hair and armors - predominantly because they don't have to be scaled to all the models we have in the game. It's just a matter of swapping the texture, which is not the case with outfits/body customization.

 

I'd like to point out that even in case of Spoils Of The Avvar pack, they didn't convert those two available armors to all character models, which is why Iron Bull suddenly changes his physique once he dons them. Heck, even in Jaws Of Hakkon - that new armor we get? It doesn't really fit everyone as it should.

[andy6915]

Is not like an appearance pack would be such taboo thing too. Many games sell different appearance pack, I have sometimes difficult finding "real" DLC when looking around the PSN.

If BioWare doesn't have any artist capable/with the necessary time to make hair, can't they even ask modders to make some hair models, and then distribute them on all platforms, free. but making clear is something made by modder X? Or, even better, making a little contest for would-be modelers, and than release the winner's work on all platforms?

 

Is not like there is a lack of opportunities to create something good.

 

They already did that for the ME series, why not DA? I remember loving to be able to put Miranda in real armor using the alternate appearance pack, and being able to give Garrus undamaged armor using his alternate appearance. Granted, no hairstles were added... But that shouldn't be difficult, even Dragon's Dogma released a couple new hairstyles with every new DLC (the hairstyles were included as bonus to the DLC). If that game could do it, why not DAI?

 

(Never mind that hair in Dragon's Dogma was a thousand times better than it is in DA, and had something like 100 hairstyles by the final hairstyle pack.)

[midnight tea]

They already did that for the ME series, why not DA? I remember loving to be able to put Miranda in real armor using the alternate appearance pack, and being able to give Garrus undamaged armor using his alternate appearance. Granted, no hairstles were added... But that shouldn't be difficult, even Dragon's Dogma released a couple new hairstyles with every new DLC (the hairstyles were included as bonus to the DLC). If that game could do it, why not DAI?

 

(Never mind that hair in Dragon's Dogma was a thousand times better than it is in DA, and had something like 100 hairstyles by the final hairstyle pack.)

 

Eh... you realize that they can't just create a pack and *just* release it?

 

DAI runs on 5 platforms, while Dragon's Dogma on PS3 AND a PS exclusive - OF COURSE they'd have an easier time to get those through all the paperwork and certifications for one platform (not to mention designing it for very similar body types).

[Basher of Glory]

Only some.

Nevertheless, shouldn't BW as a leading developer of RPGs be here the spearhead, too?

[Felya87]

If modders can make hair, people that in many cases aren't even a professional, I hightly doubt is so hard making hair and clothes, that after almost eight months nothing could be done. Not even a reskin for the jammies. Is just lapping some testures over a cloth! something that is already done in game while changing the colours for the armour!!!!

 

The game is the same on all platforms. Only the resolution change. So even optimize for all the platforms can yes take time, but not more than half a year!

 

Modders even found a way to "cure" the male elf broken arms too, while no one from BioWare have had even the care to say something about, not even regnizing this as a fact that was a problem for many gamers.

 

I wanted to give BioWare some slack, but now is ridicolous! no talking, no explanation, no DLCs and most of all, no resolution watsoever! If the game was out from a month or so, ok, is early, let's give them time. But now is really a case of not caring for their costumers!

[midnight tea]

If modders can make hair, people that in many cases aren't even a professional, I hightly doubt is so hard making hair and clothes, that after almost eight months nothing could be done. Not even a reskin for the jammies. Is just lapping some testures over a cloth! something that is already done in game while changing the colours for the armour!!!!

 

Modders usually don't create full packs of hair available for all races and characters - and if it was "as easy" as you say it is, then why is it that DAI isn't overflowing with hair mods now? There aren't really that many of them.

 

You also forget that DAI doesn't have full team anymore - most artist they have are probably busy creating assets for DLCs - and we've known they've been busy with it for quite some time now.

 

 

The game is the same on all platforms. Only the resolution change. So even optimize for all the platforms can yes take time, but not more than half a year!

 

Optimization is one thing - certification is another. It's not just paperwork and time as I understand it, it's money as well (http://arstechnica.c...console-gaming/).

[BansheeOwnage]

For an such experienced studio to put so little effort into the customization of our character is a big disappointment.

 

 

Not quite agree. 

CC is amazing - facial configuration, skin, eyes, mouths. noses, etc., EXCEPT... yes, HAIR!  So poor choice, so boring hairstyles!

Please, Bioware, give us more choice and wonderful beautiful looking hair in the next DA! You have made absolutely stunning beautiful game, so many beautiful armor for our inquisitors (not casual clothes for Quizzy  ), you can do it, I believe it!

And yes, if would be DLC - hair and clothes - I would buy it!

 

It's not just hair. The lack of customization for your formal attire and especially your casual outfit is appalling. (You could argue the armours aren't great either.) What makes that even more annoying is the fact that it would be very easy - much easier than making new hairs - to give us something to fix the Skyhold outfit. Simply being able to wear armour or tint the outfit would help immensely, and the mechanics for both of those things are already in place, but locked out for us. There is really no excuse for not adding at least one of those fixes via patch, if they can add a storage chest and tinting etc.

[BansheeOwnage]

Beds and mounts are far easier to do than hair and armors - predominantly because they don't have to be scaled to all the models we have in the game. It's just a matter of swapping the texture, which is not the case with outfits/body customization.

 

I'd like to point out that even in case of Spoils Of The Avvar pack, they didn't convert those two available armors to all character models, which is why Iron Bull suddenly changes his physique once he dons them. Heck, even in Jaws Of Hakkon - that new armor we get? It doesn't really fit everyone as it should.

You're only half right. They only retextured the mounts, but they had to make a bed from scratch (regardless of it is was ported from JoH. I honestly don't remember.)

 

So yeah, they have to actually put in work to make new hairs or armour look good. For now I'll put aside the argument that that's irrelevant and they should do it anyway, and focus on something else:

 

That only means it would take effort for them to make new ones. There are numerous other ways they could (at least partially) fix many issues that don't involve nearly as much work, and don't involve creating any new assets, such as:

 

- Adding existing hair to the pool, such as Cullen's, Calpernia's, etc.

- Letting us tint the Skyhold outfit. We already can when it's under armour, but not otherwise, so it wouldn't be hard.

- Letting us wear armour around Skyhold. That has been confirmed to be really easy.

- Allowing us to tint the Formal Attire before going to the palace would be cool too, but it's not a priority for me.

 

And you pointed out that they did a slack job of making the armour in JoH and Spoils. I agree. It's annoying in JoH, but flat-out unacceptable in Spoils, because you're paying specifically for new stuff, mainly armour.

[midnight tea]

You're only half right. They only retextured the mounts, but they had to make a bed from scratch (regardless of it is was ported from JoH. I honestly don't remember.)

 

Even if they've made one piece of furniture form the scratch, it's still easier than hair or armor - no need for scaling for all available body models in the game or anything like it. It's a static object that does nothing - I can't think of anything easier to be designed.

 

And I agree about tinting the Skyhold outfit, it would be a nice feature, though again - might not be as simple we think it is. Not sure how much work it takes to make the entire surface tin-table or make it appear as a tintable armor in inventory. Some may think it's simple, but while I'm no programmer, I know enough about it to realize that in coding simple things sometimes aren't that easy - I mean, if I remember it right, the Emporium was so long in the works because there was an issue with automatic game saves (when player entered the Mirror of Transformation) and they had to spend a lot of time working around it.

 

And AGAIN - with hair it's not that simple. If you just ported Cullen's hair and added it on, say, elf or dwarven head it would likely not sit or clip right, since it's designed specifically for male/Cullen head. Same with Calpernia's or any other hairstyle, really.

 

 

And you pointed out that they did a slack job of making the armour in JoH and Spoils. I agree. It's annoying in JoH, but flat-out unacceptable in Spoils, because you're paying specifically for new stuff, mainly armour.

 

I agree that it's uncool, but it only indicates that designing/scaling for all types of bodies apparently takes time they don't have.

[BansheeOwnage]

Even if they've made one piece of furniture form the scratch, it's still easier than hair or armor - no need for scaling for all available body models in the game or anything like it. It's a static object that does nothing - I can't think of anything easier to be designed.

 

And I agree about tinting the Skyhold outfit, it would be a nice feature, though again - might not be as simple we think it is. Not sure how much work it takes to make the entire surface tin-table or make it appear as a tintable armor in inventory. Some may think it's simple, but while I'm no programmer, I know enough about it to realize that in coding simple things sometimes aren't that easy - I mean, if I remember it right, the Emporium was so long in the works because there was an issue with automatic game saves (when player entered the Mirror of Transformation) and they had to spend a lot of time working around it.

 

And AGAIN - with hair it's not that simple. If you just ported Cullen's hair and added it on, say, elf or dwarven head it would likely not sit or clip right, since it's designed specifically for male/Cullen head. Same with Calpernia's or any other hairstyle, really.

 

 

 

I agree that it's uncool, but it only indicates that designing/scaling for all types of bodies apparently takes time they don't have.

You're right, it's easier, but I'd rather they not make any extra thrones/mounts/decor/etc. if it even meant one new hairstyle instead. That's just me though. My problem is their priorities I guess.

 

I concede that it might be harder than it looks, but I doubt it. Modders have changed the texture of the outfit easily enough, but even without that, I don't see how it could be easily tintable in armour but it not without armour.

 

Yes, you would have to make it work for non-humans, but my point was that you wouldn't need to make assets from scratch. So it's a lot less work that making new hair and fitting the new hair to all races.

 

Which is why I didn't complain heavily about it in JoH. But if they're going to sell me a cosmetic/aesthetic/gear pack, wherein the content is specifically about that armour, unlike JoH, I want them to put the proper effort in. It would be a bit like selling an all-class weapon pack and forgetting the bow.

[midnight tea]

Modders at best can replace default textures - I don't recall there being a mod that added more than that. Now, like I said, I'm no programmer, but I think the issue with the 'pajamas' is that the tinting table would have to recognize it as separate armor and have all its surfaces be able to swap colors/textures. How easy/difficult is that is a question to BW programmer/designer or anyone who knows stuff better than I, but the fact that they didn't add it yet (despite adding BE after loud request for CC or additional inventory space) means that it may not be that simple.

 

As for Spoils, to be frank, I have no idea why they even bothered to release it - either it was a contractual obligation, some sort of test or something the like of it.

[Basher of Glory]

About thrones, beds, chairs etc.

 

I can tell exactly how often I changed one piece of furniture:

 

One time to see, what happens. I admire the artwork and the creativity, but it's simply not my cup of tea.

 

The same with all these mounts: Once I wanted to see, what happens, when I have one of the rare sorts.

I saw no difference except the looks. Like many others, I didn't use mounts often, so this feature was also

inferior for me.

 

But of course, that's only me. Perhaps the rest of the gamers has a very different opinion.

 

Thus, we are back to the question about priorities.

[midnight tea]

About thrones, beds, chairs etc.

 

I can tell exactly how often I changed one piece of furniture:

 

One time to see, what happens. I admire the artwork and the creativity, but it's simply not my cup of tea.

 

The same with all these mounts: Once I wanted to see, what happens, when I have one of the rare sorts.

I saw no difference except the looks. Like many others, I didn't use mounts often, so this feature was also

inferior for me.

 

But of course, that's only me. Perhaps the rest of the gamers has a very different opinion.

 

Thus, we are back to the question about priorities.

 

And here I though we were predominantly talking about how easy it is make something... which can determine the place on priority list.

 

In any case - we KNOW what's DA's team priority now: the DLC they've been working on, likely for months and - very likely - are either almost done with it or the work is in very advanced stadium (since they're recording VO, songs and the like). A good enough reason for nobody to be thinking about creating haircut or armor packages now.

[Basher of Glory]

You are of course right: We KNOW about the obvious priorities because we see the results.

 

My question targeted something else:

 

I wondered, WHY they put the "easy" stuff onto their list, stuff which is seen as unnecessary by many.

 

Is it really conceivable that a company like BW has no artists for the "harder" things? Would it really be so much more expensive to create hair, casual outfits etc.?

 

I don't know about the sales of the DLC "SotA"; it would be interesting to know, if it was profitable enough to (at least) even out the costs.

[BansheeOwnage]

And here I though we were predominantly talking about how easy it is make something... which can determine the place on priority list.

 

In any case - we KNOW what's DA's team priority now: the DLC they've been working on, likely for months and - very likely - are either almost done with it or the work is in very advanced stadium (since they're recording VO, songs and the like). A good enough reason for nobody to be thinking about creating haircut or armor packages now.

Not necessarily. Every Bioware game since ME2 has had aesthetic/gear packs released during the main DLC cycle. They can obviously do more than one thing at once, which makes sense when you consider that the modellers only have so much to do on a DLC, then "nothing" to do in between.

 

 

I don't know about the sales of the DLC "SotA"; it would be interesting to know, if it was profitable enough to (at least) even out the costs.

I would think it would outweigh the costs simply because they didn't actually put much effort into it. I would guess though, that a hair/outfit pack would make more money than Spoils, even if they actually had to make new things. And they should be able to make new things; they have for years. Plus, a lot of happy fans is always good.

[aCuteBrat2u]

The hair choices are terrible.  As terrible and as painful as it is for me to watch my female characters throw out a hip or hurt their backs with how much swing they put in the run.  Seriously, if any woman I was ever stationed with ran the way they make female characters run... they would be mocked out of military service.  I just thought bad hair and bad running was a thing game companies did to women for whatever reason with no intentions of fixing.  

[Undead Han]

Such anger. I suppose you are a hardcore console apologist from the vitriol in your 2 posts. No biggie, wear it out.

It is true though, having to maintain downward compatibility with old-gen consoles has been detrimental to Inquisitions visuals/models, as well as crappy control schemes due to being designed first and foremost for consoles.

 

 

He is right though in it having absolutely nothing to do with the horrible hair in DA:I. Plenty of console games haven't suffered from the same issues as DA:I, despite being developed for the same hardware. The Witcher 3 is a great example of that.

[Basher of Glory]

He is right though in it having absolutely nothing to do with the horrible hair in DA:I. Plenty of console games haven't suffered from the same issues as DA:I, despite being developed for the same hardware. The Witcher 3 is a great example of that.

Now you wrote, what I labelled as "currently played major game".

 

IMO this game has set future standards in almost all regards. Hairstyles and a FREE DLC to change them is just one of many.

(NOTE: I realize that it might be not so difficult, because there is just one protagonist who is the same for all players in contrast to the CC in DA:I)

[midnight tea]

He is right though in it having absolutely nothing to do with the horrible hair in DA:I. Plenty of console games haven't suffered from the same issues as DA:I, despite being developed for the same hardware. The Witcher 3 is a great example of that.

 

Same hardware? Huh.... I recommend reading this article before making statements like this:

 

http://www.gamespot....s/1100-6417274/

 

There you have it, right form the horse's mouth. A lot has been said about BW making "excuses" for themselves while they mention the limitations of old-gen consoles - so hopefully when even the CDPR CEO claims that it's impossible to deliver the game like TW3 on older systems, I think we can at least give BW credit where credit is due for working with all the limitations of old hardware and pulling what they managed to pull (even if it isn't always top-notch).

[Felya87]

Limitation of old console, owever, don't really justify (even if I have a lot of doubts about older console "fault" regarding hair, when even DA2 had slightly moving hair) the hair model choosen. Modelling a braided style with a normal forehead, or hair without balding textures, or not putting in sideburns, should be basically the same work.

The problem here is not only the limitation, but how limitating are the models, and mostly how many hair feel wrong on female characters.

[midnight tea]

Limitation of old console, owever, don't really justify (even if I have a lot of doubts about older console "fault" regarding hair, when even DA2 had slightly moving hair) the hair model choosen. Modelling a braided style with a normal forehead, or hair without balding textures, or not putting in sideburns, should be basically the same work.

The problem here is not only the limitation, but how limitating are the models, and mostly how many hair feel wrong on female characters.

 

Hey, I'm not arguing that they could have more or better hair, specially for females - what I'm pointing out is that comparing, say, Witcher 3 (a game designed to run only on current-gen consoles AND even testing/using brand new Nvidia HairWorks - a move that spurred some controversy: http://wccftech.com/...-3-performance/ )to a game that had to deal with limitations of old-gen technology is not exactly productive.