178 réponses à ce sujet

[Basher of Glory]

Same hardware? Huh.... I recommend reading this article before making statements like this:

 

http://www.gamespot....s/1100-6417274/

 

There you have it, right form the horse's mouth. A lot has been said about BW making "excuses" for themselves while they mention the limitations of old-gen consoles - so hopefully when even the CDPR CEO claims that it's impossible to deliver the game like TW3 on older systems, I think we can at least give BW credit where credit is due for working with all the limitations of old hardware and pulling what they managed to pull (even if it isn't always top-notch).

I'm not sure if I understand, what you want to tell us and I am certainly not up to start the next console vs. PC flame war.

 

If you think, Witcher 3 is a bad reference take another game which was developed for the PS 3, FF XIII / -2 for example (released 12/15/2011 ! )

 

And if you read the entire thread, you may find plenty of other hints.

 

As far as I can see, there are no "limitations" preventing a dev to create decent stuff, be it a hair style, be it a casual outfit, be it whatever.

 

Disambiguation:

 

"Decent" in this context means

 

* not necessarily state of the art

* not 100%

* not "the best"

* but acceptable

[midnight tea]

I'm not sure if I understand, what you want to tell us and I am certainly not up to start the next console vs. PC flame war.

 

What the hell? How is my comment even remotely about "console vs. PC flame war"? Talk about taking out of context to ridiculous degree....

 

 

If you think, Witcher 3 is a bad reference take another game which was developed for the PS 3, FF XIII / -2 for example (released 12/15/2011 ! )

 

Fixed PCs with basically no hair customization. AGAIN.

[Basher of Glory]

What the hell? How is my comment even remotely about "console vs. PC flame war"? Talk about taking out of context to ridiculous degree....

When I write "I am not up...." then I talk about me and not you.

 

 

Fixed PCs with basically no hair customization. AGAIN.

Right. But it looks good. I never felt the need to customize them. It's "decent".

[midnight tea]

When I write "I am not up...." then I talk about me and not you.

 

Yes, and you're implying that I'm brewing fuel for some console/PC argument, while it's clearly not the case.

 

 

 

Right. But it looks good. I never felt the need to customize them. It's "decent".

 

Lol, I can already hear the complains if it turned out that our customizable protagonist had just "one decent haircut" to choose from.

[Basher of Glory]

Yes, and you're implying that I'm brewing fuel for some console/PC argument, while it's clearly not the case.

 

 

 

Lol, I can already hear the complains if it turned out that our customizable protagonist had just "one decent haircut" to choose from.

 

Nice try.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy

[BansheeOwnage]

The hair choices are terrible.  As terrible and as painful as it is for me to watch my female characters throw out a hip or hurt their backs with how much swing they put in the run.  Seriously, if any woman I was ever stationed with ran the way they make female characters run... they would be mocked out of military service.  I just thought bad hair and bad running was a thing game companies did to women for whatever reason with no intentions of fixing.  

I've made plenty of posts jabbing at the ridiculous animation, but I think the military thing is irrelevant. No women walk like that unless they're a runway model who is putting conscious effort into it. The point is, it's not natural, and it's just silly. Sort of like how not many men actually stomp around like gorillas. Hope they go back to a normal neutral animation set à la ME1.

[BansheeOwnage]

 

As far as I can see, there are no "limitations" preventing a dev to create decent stuff, be it a hair style, be it a casual outfit, be it whatever.

 

Disambiguation:

 

"Decent" in this context means

 

* not necessarily state of the art

* not 100%

* not "the best"

* but acceptable

I just wanted to add that regression in quality is something I don't find acceptable in games (or anything, really). Case in point being the fact that DA2 (which had all of DA:O's hair plus new ones) was a great example of an advancement, whereas DA:I is an example of devolution, and an egregious one at that.

 

Advancement is preferable. Stability is expected. Regression is unacceptable.

[Basher of Glory]

Advancement is preferable. Stability is expected. Regression is unacceptable.

I think, you get to the heart of it.

 

Is there any known statement of BW, why they couldn't at least retain stability, meaning to keep at least the quality of DA II?

[Felya87]

I think, you get to the heart of it.

 

Is there any known statement of BW, why they couldn't at least retain stability, meaning to keep at least the quality of DA II?

 

i think beside the "sideburns" argumant, they never said a thing about hair at all. But I may be wrong on this.

[midnight tea]

Nice try.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy

 

 

LOL, it doesn't work like that - you have to pinpoint specific fallacy (if you think it actually happened), rather than linking to a general article about fallacies.

 

In any case...

 

 

Is there any known statement of BW, why they couldn't at least retain stability, meaning to keep at least the quality of DA II?

 

The "quality" of DAII? 

 

I've got news for you.... the quality of hair in DAI is actually better than in DA II - the reason why they look so-so is because everything else, graphic-wise in DAI looks pretty damn stunning (especially for a title that had to work with limitations of older consoles), in contrast to DAII, which wasn't really praised for its outdated/rushed graphics, made - I'd like to point out - in way older engine as well....

[Basher of Glory]

As I wrote previously:

 

Read the entire thread, at least the topic: It's about hairstyles in the first place.

 

Nobody here complained about the general graphical quality of the game.

 

 

The "quality" of DAII? 

 

I've got news for you.... the quality of hair in DAI is actually better than in DA II - the reason why they look so-so is because everything else, graphic-wise in DAI looks pretty damn stunning (especially for a title that had to work with limitations of older consoles), in contrast to DAII, which wasn't really praised for its outdated/rushed graphics, made - I'd like to point out - in way older engine as well....

Uhm... interesting point of view, indeed.

[Felya87]

If we talk about textures, there is a slight improvemant in general, but not always. Qunari's hair have the same textures of DA2, basically (expecially female hair, since are like "stretched" tho give them smaller horns) but with the malus of having much aestetically worse design.

 

And I think the bottom of all, is that the aestetic design is truly worse than all the DA games. Only ME have worse hair than DAI.

[Phoenix_Also_Rises]

I, for one, happen to be prematurely gray. With still years to go before I even turn 30, half my hair is basically white. And I am not the only one. Yet BioWare, in a quite honestly appalling display of lack of oversight, made the conscious decision to ignore people like me in their latest installment. Such conduct is not only unbecoming of a developer who very vocally trumpets its dedication to openness and anti-discriminatory approach to the world, it is downright offensive. How dare they deny my player freedom? How dare they encroach on my unalienable right as a prematurely white-haired twenty-something? The gall. Its like should not exist in this day and age.

[lastpatriot]

I, for one, happen to be prematurely gray. With still years to go before I even turn 30, half my hair is basically white. And I am not the only one. Yet BioWare, in a quite honestly appalling display of lack of oversight, made the conscious decision to ignore people like me in their latest installment. Such conduct is not only unbecoming of a developer who very vocally trumpets its dedication to openness and anti-discriminatory approach to the world, it is downright offensive. How dare they deny my player freedom? How dare they encroach on my unalienable right as a prematurely white-haired twenty-something? The gall. Its like should not exist in this day and age.

 

LOL, this is great!  I too am offended.  I always wear my hear in a long pony-tail (because I'm lazy...) and here I have to use a mod to get something similar. 

[Nefla]

BioWare sucks at modeling and texturing hair and has no idea what looks appealing or fashionable. Does their choice to add sideburns to every single style come from consoles? No. Does their choice to have random shaved patches come from consoles? No. If consoles were to blame for the atrocious hair in BioWare games, that would mean consoles can't handle hair at all which would mean you wouldn't have console games with nice looking, fashionable, or dynamic hair but that isn't the case. The Qunari hair in DA:I is so bad that the textures from Knights of the Old Republic put it to shame (not to mention the barf-worthy styles choices). Maybe one day they'll see hair as something worth putting resources into and hire someone who actually knows what they're doing but I doubt it. Why do that when they can hire someone's 13 year old niece or the janitor for 1/4 of the cost...

[Lebanese Dude]

BioWare sucks at modeling and texturing hair and has no idea what looks appealing or fashionable. Does their choice to add sideburns to every single style come from consoles? No. Does their choice to have random shaved patches come from consoles? No. If consoles were to blame for the atrocious hair in BioWare games, that would mean consoles can't handle hair at all which would mean you wouldn't have console games with nice looking, fashionable, or dynamic hair but that isn't the case. The Qunari hair in DA:I is so bad that the textures from Knights of the Old Republic put it to shame (not to mention the barf-worthy styles choices). Maybe one day they'll see hair as something worth putting resources into and hire someone who actually knows what they're doing but I doubt it. Why do that when they can hire someone's 13 year old niece or the janitor for 1/4 of the cost...

No need for such vitriol

 

I do agree that it seems odd that BioWare has had a consistently bad relationship with hair. There needs to be a wider range of appealing hairstyles. I've been lucky to have at least one hairstyle I like in every game, but it would be nice to have a broader range of styles.

 

I liked that the companions had unique hair, but it's a little irritating when most of them are leagues better than what your character can use.

 

The issue with hair is that it kinda stands out while playing your character, unless you equip a helmet. If you don't, you spend more time looking at your hair than other random doodads in the environment that have received better treatment. They should devote more resources on it, especially on the player character. They don't have to go all the way with TressFX and that stuff since animating four party members is taxing enough, but the textures should at least look better.

 

I wouldn't stoop so low as to say that their designers have no idea how to do hair if they tried. It just seems they don't prioritize it, when they really should. Considering how complex the new character creator is, it's really odd that hair is the sole exception.

[Basher of Glory]

Let me come back to the mods and the modders.

 

Although there were some decent hairstyles in DA:O I was pleased to see all the mods shortly after release (while "shortly" means within a few weeks).

 

Almost the same in DA II: The hair was not so pretty as in DA:O, but acceptable. BW didn't release a toolset (if I remember correctly) but nevertheless, a few weeks later we had a lot of nice hairstyles from the modders.

 

Now, in DA:I the difficulties for the modding-community seem to be aggravated, as there is nothing comparable available. Lots of stuff on Nexus, but none of all the nice pallets we could choose from in the two aforementioned games.

 

Here my ability to comprehend runs dry. I really could understand  the decision to spend resources elsewhere and "leave the rest to the modders".

Perhaps it was like this in past times.

 

As we all know, a good modding-community is also good for the longevity of a game and thus, for a company's business.

It covers the wishes and "needs" of the gamers and is  costless for the company.

 

So, how fits a decision to make modding very hard if not impossible into the grand scheme about costs, resources and priorities?

[Felya87]

But modders help only one part of the players. So, really, I, as a console player, can care less about toolkits For the pc players, since it doesn't help me one bit.

[Nefla]

But modders help only one part of the players. So, really, I, as a console player, can care less about toolkits For the pc players, since it doesn't help me one bit.

PC players tend to assume that because they play on PC that everyone else does too. Anyway, something so fundamental shouldn't be left for players to fix even if the games were on PC only.

 

No need for such vitriol

 

I do agree that it seems odd that BioWare has had a consistently bad relationship with hair. There needs to be a wider range of appealing hairstyles. I've been lucky to have at least one hairstyle I like in every game, but it would be nice to have a broader range of styles.

 

I liked that the companions had unique hair, but it's a little irritating when most of them are leagues better than what your character can use.

 

The issue with hair is that it kinda stands out while playing your character, unless you equip a helmet. If you don't, you spend more time looking at your hair than other random doodads in the environment that have received better treatment. They should devote more resources on it, especially on the player character. They don't have to go all the way with TressFX and that stuff since animating four party members is taxing enough, but the textures should at least look better.

 

I wouldn't stoop so low as to say that their designers have no idea how to do hair if they tried. It just seems they don't prioritize it, when they really should. Considering how complex the new character creator is, it's really odd that hair is the sole exception.

What's funny (or sad) is that the facial hair and eyebrows are horrible too. The ugly eyebrows especially make no sense, it's just a texture applied to that part of the face, it only has 2 dimensions. Why they thought adding so many giant, fantastical, crazed eyebrows yet having only a few normal eyebrows was a good idea I'll never know. Did they assume most players would want to play a stereotypical LotR style male dwarf with giant beard and eyebrows? I don't necessarily think they couldn't model some good hairstyles if they devoted a lot of time and resources to it, I just think they would have no idea of what styles looked good. Kids these days are all sporting mullets right? Oh wait, they all want to be like Miley Cyrus's twin sister? This granny style with the 3 stooges bangs is fashionable right? Oh I know, they all want to 20 variations of bald and shaved! etc...I think they spent almost no time on the Qunari hair though. Somehow their hair gets worse with every game. They cut out the nice looking, styles that fit with the time period and theme (like the two braided buns worn by Anora for example) and put in weird wannabe modern styles that are poorly done.

[Basher of Glory]

PC players tend to assume that because they play on PC that everyone else does too. Anyway, something so fundamental shouldn't be left for players to fix even if the games were on PC only.

 

Admittedly I didn't think about consoles. Being rather ignorant in regard of these, I really thought that the newer ones are able to handle mods.

 

Anyway, a good mod might not help the console-users, but it won't hurt them either.

[Sunnie]

Admittedly I didn't think about consoles. Being rather ignorant in regard of these, I really thought that the newer ones are able to handle mods.

 

Anyway, a good mod might not help the console-users, but it won't hurt them either.

Actually, it usually makes quite a few of them rather jealous since they can't use any of the mods or player made bug fixes. That also isn't the fault of PCs or even BioWare or any other developer, its because of MS and Sony, they don't allow players access to the base files of these games and actually have written into the TOS that games can not be modified unless by MS or Sony authorized DLC/Patches. Modding a game on a console usually gets the user/console black listed on XBLive or PSN. And buying a used console that was previously black listed is a mess to get undone.

[Basher of Glory]

Interesting.

 

If I understand correctly: Basically it would be possible to use mods on a console, right?

[Felya87]

Interesting.

 

If I understand correctly: Basically it would be possible to use mods on a console, right?

 

It is, and it will be for Fallout 4, if Sony will give all the permissions. (not right from the start, and probably only the ones approved by Bethesda)

 

By the way, is ingenous think toolkits don't hurt consoles, since I have seen too many times PC players shutting up console players with the "you should have brought a PC, peasant!" and basically justifyng devs for their oversights. Since, who cares, modders will resolve it for them!

[Lebanese Dude]

 

By the way, is ingenous think toolkits don't hurt consoles, since I have seen too many times PC players shutting up console players with the "you should have brought a PC, peasant!" and basically justifyng devs for their oversights. Since, who cares, modders will resolve it for them!

 

No need to be so touchy. It's just the nature of the platforms. Modding will always be significantly superior on PCs since 3rd-party programs can be used. 

 

I find the whole debate nonsensical. PCs are always going to be better for gaming. That's not ever going to change since consoles are essentially limited computers. 

[Felya87]

No need to be so touchy. It's just the nature of the platforms. Modding will always be significantly superior on PCs since 3rd-party programs can be used. 

 

I find the whole debate nonsensical. PCs are always going to be better for gaming. That's not ever going to change since consoles are essentially limited computers. 

 

I'm touchy because I've been insulted many times by PC players, because I play mostly on console, since I don't have space/money for a gaming PC. I buyed a PS4 because the Sony exclusives are more interesting to me, and let me play AAA games too. But every time I had some things to say about a game, I was always attached byt elitarist pc players.

 

Asking for a toolkit is not the solution. It help only 1/5 of the player community. is egoistical and ecocentric.