178 réponses à ce sujet

[Basher of Glory]

Hmm...

 

10 - 15 years is a loooong time for a PC. I wonder if a "top-notch" PC of - let's say - 2003 could run DA:I

 

Nevertheless, the argument that consoles are good for devs in the first place seems to be valid.

They can optimize for one or two given configurations instead of worrying about the infinity of possible PC-configurations.

This saves lots of resources for testing, QA, patches etc.

 

For the gamer there might be an advantage, which was described by one of the keywords in Lebanese Dude's post: Simple.

Fire and forget it. Buy game, start playing. Ignore everything which could keep PC-gamers busy, like

* OS

* equipment (graphics, sound, RAM etc.)

* (game breaking) bugs

* waiting for patches

etc.

 

As a sidenote I may add, that console-players would never ask in a tech forum stuff like

"...will my 486DX50 with WIN95 run this game at 30 FPS...?"

 

Hmm...

 

Call me stubborn, unteachable, stupid and / or an incurable fanatic:

 

I accept all the trouble, stay with my PC and will have the chance to see some future games drastically enhanced by good (hair-) mods.  

 

 

PS.: I've read the expression "elitist PC-gamer".... Are there "elitist console-gamers", too?

[Sunnie]

Comments below in the quote (because I am being lazy!)

Hmm...

 

10 - 15 years is a loooong time for a PC. I wonder if a "top-notch" PC of - let's say - 2003 could run DA:I

Mine does, very well in fact. I run with half the settings on high and the rest on ultra, and if I had a DX11 GPU,  everything would be on ultra.

 

Nevertheless, the argument that consoles are good for devs in the first place seems to be valid.

They can optimize for one or two given configurations instead of worrying about the infinity of possible PC-configurations.

This saves lots of resources for testing, QA, patches etc.

This is true. Developing for never changing hardware is easier and does have a significantly lower cost for QA processes

 

For the gamer there might be an advantage, which was described by one of the keywords in Lebanese Dude's post: Simple.

Fire and forget it. Buy game, start playing. Ignore everything which could keep PC-gamers busy, like

- This is really the biggest appeal for consoles, just turn it on and start playing. Well, that "used" to be how it was. Now you have all the XBLive or PSN or Nintendo (DRM) service you need to deal with before you can actually play anything. On my PS3, it's a real PITA if the thing can't log into the PSN upon bootup.

* OS

* equipment (graphics, sound, RAM etc.)

* (game breaking) bugs -  Actually, theres not a whole lot of difference for bugs between platforms because in design or with the engine will exist on all platforms simultaneously.

* waiting for patches - PC platforms usually get patches first because they are easier to develop and deploy.

etc.

 

As a sidenote I may add, that console-players would never ask in a tech forum stuff like

"...will my 486DX50 with WIN95 run this game at 30 FPS...?"

 

Hmm...

 

Call me stubborn, unteachable, stupid and / or an incurable fanatic:

 

I accept all the trouble, stay with my PC and will have the chance to see some future games drastically enhanced by good (hair-) mods.  

 

 

PS.: I've read the expression "elitist PC-gamer".... Are there "elitist console-gamers", too?

- The answer is obviously a resounding YES. It's ever so evident all over the BioWare forums.

[Basher of Glory]

Uhm...how would someone who is able to activate and deactivate a device be...elite?

[Ellanya]

Hmm… PC, consoles, mods ... Sorry, but where is discussion hairstyles? 

[Basher of Glory]

Hmm… PC, consoles, mods ... Sorry, but where is discussion hairstyles? 

mods --> additional hairstyles

PC --> mod friendly

console --> mods at least very hard to apply if not totally impossible

devs --> like consoles due to easy developing

EA --> happy, because anything for console means more profit

devs --> seem not to like the idea to make console users jealous because they probably buy a PC next time

devs --> must again develop for PC

microsoft, sony --> angry

EA --> angry because mods are for free; CEO is afraid to become impoverished soon

... ... ...

 

You see, one fact leads to the next and it always ends with a conspiracy! 

[BansheeOwnage]

I, for one, happen to be prematurely gray. With still years to go before I even turn 30, half my hair is basically white. And I am not the only one. Yet BioWare, in a quite honestly appalling display of lack of oversight, made the conscious decision to ignore people like me in their latest installment. Such conduct is not only unbecoming of a developer who very vocally trumpets its dedication to openness and anti-discriminatory approach to the world, it is downright offensive. How dare they deny my player freedom? How dare they encroach on my unalienable right as a prematurely white-haired twenty-something? The gall. Its like should not exist in this day and age.

It would have been funnier if you couldn't make your character young with grey hair.

[BansheeOwnage]

Hmm… PC, consoles, mods ... Sorry, but where is discussion hairstyles? 

I'll just blurt out some stuff because I never run out of things to say about hair. *Clears throat*

 

I find it extremely strange that Bioware has only ever done an acceptable job at hair, and unfortunately the quality has diminished significantly with DA:I. I find it extremely odd, because it seems like such a straightforward, almost reflexive thing to do when making an RPG - and specifically a Bioware style RPG - to:

 

1. Be able to make your character look somewhat appealing

2. Be able to make more than one character somewhat appealing

 

Obviously, people will like a different number of styles, and as someone said, they were lucky enough to find one they liked in every game. Well, I did too, but one style is good for one character, generally. Hair sculpts the face, defines it, and if you only like one, you can make one character. It's jarring to make 2 characters with the same hair, because it will remind you of the other character, probably more than any other facial feature. It's immersion-breaking, and leads a bit into uncanny valley too. I only like 2 styles, and one has sideburns, so I refuse to use it after I did in my first playthrough.

 

Can Bioware make good hair? Yes. They make good hair for companions frequently. The question is:

 

Why not extend that to the face we'll be seeing up close for dozens of hours? It's exactly the same with the Skyhold outfit. People care about aesthetics. People don't want to stare at that horrible outfit (or at least, colour) for almost half the game. And the response is clear, and not just on BSN: Overwhelming criticism, overwhelming pleas for a simple fix, yet nothing done. If there was ever something fans agreed should be fixed (that wasn't a bug), this would be it. If there was ever something to fix that had a simple solution (and I've listed some) this would be it.

 

Obviously, it's not high on their priority list, unless they think they did give us lots of great hair, which I doubt, considering how main NPCs look. Why isn't it though? There is a disconnect between who's in charge and the fans, clearly. People love making their characters in these games. They get excited at the improvements of the CC - scars, inner iris colour, adam's apple, better face sculpting - and yet, a lot of that, those things that enable you to make something unique, are squandered unintentionally but by design, because of one thing that you do not have the power to make unique enough.

 

Bioware's dismissal of this sort of feedback depresses me. I don't speak for everyone, but to me, I think, in my opinion, (emphasized enough yet?) Bioware tends to have low self esteem as a company, in the sense that they're very bad at admitting mistakes. They'd rather ignore all of these comments and requests and pretend they did everything perfectly.

 

You want better hair? I can't hear you! You want out of that Skyhold outfit? WELL YOU'RE STUCK IN IT FOREVER NOW, THAT'S WHAT YOU GET FOR COMPLAINING (even though we could easily patch in a fix).

 

This should never have been a problem, but now that it is, they should fix it. Trying to help would please a lot of people and generate loads of goodwill. Just like releasing the Black Emporium for free did, and armour tinting. This is along those lines. Prove that you can out-do (haha, pun) yourself Bioware! Keep taking it to the next level instead of pretending no one has valid feedback. I know you can do great things if you want to. We want you to, so try!

 

I hope that wasn't too rant-y

[Nefla]

I honestly fail to see how consoles could ever realistically be remotely on par with PCs when it comes to modding, at least in the remote future.

 

I empathize with people who cannot afford PCs that meet the minimum requirements for most modern games, but the fact of the matter is that the very concept of modification goes against what consoles are designed to do: Be simple, efficient, regulated, and safe platforms for running multimedia. 

The issue isn't that console users can't use mods, the problem comes from console users having some kind of issue (like with this awful hair) and the PC users just come trotting in like "nope, these complaints are invalid because there are mods and now everyone can pack up and go home. Nothing to see here game company!" You guys have your mods, that's great but it's not a solution for most people. Asking the company to improve, patch, or even make a paid DLC to fix something is the console user's only hope.

[Basher of Glory]

The issue isn't that console users can't use mods, the problem comes from console users having some kind of issue (like with this awful hair) and the PC users just come trotting in like "nope, these complaints are invalid because there are mods and now everyone can pack up and go home. Nothing to see here game company!" You guys have your mods, that's great but it's not a solution for most people. Asking the company to improve, patch, or even make a paid DLC to fix something is the console user's only hope.

Now, now...

 

IMO you put the cart before the horse.

 

Of course there will always be the occasional individualist who wants a mod, even then, when all other gamers are content. And of course there are countless mods which are more than superfluous.

 

But in generally the first mods are made to fill gaps and to improve poorly implemented stuff of a vanilla version.

 

Example NWN 2:

 

When the game was released an outcry echoed through all forums about the general ugliness of the preset heads AND hair

(although I liked the flower )

Now guess, which mods came out during the next weeks AND were downloaded the most?

Right: Hairstyles, improved heads and even sliders to adjust height and width.

NOW we had custom characters.

 

Example 2:

 

Personally I loved the CC of DA:O

The heads and faces I could create were pretty (in my eyes) and many if not most other gamers saw it the same way for their creations.

Nevertheless uncountable face morphs were created and some liked them. But none of these made it to "the top 10".

See above "...the occasional individualist who wants a mod..."

 

Conclusion: Cosmetic mods are only made AND accepted (= downloaded and installed), if there is a need and not vice versa.

 

BTW, you should read through the archives about all these discussions I'm referring to, example NWN 2.

You will see, that there was a great discussion about the appearances of our characters.

The devs of OBSIDIAN contributed much to these discussions in contrast to some other devs....

[duckley]

This is probably the most snarky post I have ever made....please forgive me.

 

You know what really bugs me! The hair they gave to Florianne and Clarel. So unattractive and unfeminine, Especially for Orlesians... oh dear!

[Basher of Glory]

This is probably the most snarky post I have ever made....please forgive me.

 

You know what really bugs me! The hair they gave to Florianne and Clarel. So unattractive and unfeminine, Especially for Orlesians... oh dear!

I fail to see anything "snarky"

 

I agree with Clarel viewed from a aesthetic perspective. But then she is kind of a soldier and therefore bends down

to a more pragmatic point of view, like Demi Moore in GI Jane

Anyway, I could accept it from a role playing point of view.

 

For Florianne... well, she is in my eyes kind of a corrupted noble punk. She MUST be unappealing and hairstyles are the

best and quickest way to let someone look ugly without great efforts.

[Undead Han]

This is probably the most snarky post I have ever made....please forgive me.

 

You know what really bugs me! The hair they gave to Florianne and Clarel. So unattractive and unfeminine, Especially for Orlesians... oh dear!

 

I didn't mind Clarel. In her case I thought it was actually kind of fitting, because she was a Grey Warden. I could see someone from an organization that is engaged in constant war with bloodthirsty monsters going the G.I. Jane route. 

 

With Florianne it seemed a little odd given her position. With the Orlesians being as obsessed as they are about fashion and appearance, it might have made more sense for her, as one of the most highest ranking of Orlais' nobles, to have a more glamorous design than going the shaved head route. In DA:O Marjolaine also pokes fun at Leliana for having cut her hair short 'like a boy,' which wouldn't make sense if androgynous looks were all the rage in Orlais.

[Basher of Glory]

 

 

 

Resemblances accidental?

[Nefla]

Now, now...

 

IMO you put the cart before the horse.

 

Of course there will always be the occasional individualist who wants a mod, even then, when all other gamers are content. And of course there are countless mods which are more than superfluous.

 

But in generally the first mods are made to fill gaps and to improve poorly implemented stuff of a vanilla version.

 

Example NWN 2:

 

When the game was released an outcry echoed through all forums about the general ugliness of the preset heads AND hair

(although I liked the flower )

Now guess, which mods came out during the next weeks AND were downloaded the most?

Right: Hairstyles, improved heads and even sliders to adjust height and width.

NOW we had custom characters.

 

Example 2:

 

Personally I loved the CC of DA:O

The heads and faces I could create were pretty (in my eyes) and many if not most other gamers saw it the same way for their creations.

Nevertheless uncountable face morphs were created and some liked them. But none of these made it to "the top 10".

See above "...the occasional individualist who wants a mod..."

 

Conclusion: Cosmetic mods are only made AND accepted (= downloaded and installed), if there is a need and not vice versa.

 

BTW, you should read through the archives about all these discussions I'm referring to, example NWN 2.

You will see, that there was a great discussion about the appearances of our characters.

The devs of OBSIDIAN contributed much to these discussions in contrast to some other devs....

No offense, but...what does that have to do with what I said? I know the first mods are made to fix problems and shortcomings with the vanilla games and that's perfectly fine for PC users. Enjoy your fix, just understand when console users don't appreciate being told there is no problem or the company should focus on doing other things because you guys got what you wanted. The problem still exists for console users. We're patient, and many of us would have paid for a hairstyles DLC or something like that. (TW3 released extra hairstyles for Geralt after the game's release for free).

 

Here's an analogy for you: A company that makes pancake mix is selling pancake mix that makes people sick. A skilled chef with knowledge of medicines can add other ingredients that counteract the bad ingredient and cook it a certain way so that it no longer makes him sick. Everyone except for him is still getting sick. He proudly stands up and says "it's ok guys, I'm not getting sick from it anymore so the company doesn't have to worry!"

 

This is probably the most snarky post I have ever made....please forgive me.

 

You know what really bugs me! The hair they gave to Florianne and Clarel. So unattractive and unfeminine, Especially for Orlesians... oh dear!

Like others, I didn't have a problem with Clarel. She's a soldier and wouldn't be wearing some fancy noble hairstyle while fighting darkspawn. Florianne and Celine on the other hand looked ridiculous. Short, crude, and simple hairstyles on the richest and most powerful women in Orlais? This doesn't match what we know about Orlesians from the lore. I would have expected super complicated and fancy hairstyles that would be so over the top and difficult that it would take a team of artisans several hours to style it each day. The empress and the duchess having the same haircut as a male potato farmer...wtf?

[duckley]

I understand the idea that Clarel in essence is a solider, but does she really need to shave her head? Reminds me of women POWs who were forced to shave their heads due to lice in labor camps. Kind of makes my stomach turn...

[Basher of Glory]

No offense, but...what does that have to do with what I said? I know the first mods are made to fix problems and shortcomings with the vanilla games and that's perfectly fine for PC users. Enjoy your fix, just understand when console users don't appreciate being told there is no problem or the company should focus on doing other things because you guys got what you wanted. The problem still exists for console users. We're patient, and many of us would have paid for a hairstyles DLC or something like that. (TW3 released extra hairstyles for Geralt after the game's release for free).

 

Here's an analogy for you: A company that makes pancake mix is selling pancake mix that makes people sick. A skilled chef with knowledge of medicines can add other ingredients that counteract the bad ingredient and cook it a certain way so that it no longer makes him sick. Everyone except for him is still getting sick. He proudly stands up and says "it's ok guys, I'm not getting sick from it anymore so the company doesn't have to worry!"

 

 

It's hard to understand your point of view.

 

As far as I know, there is no law which forces you to buy a console, right?

 

Your ...example is a bit strange, too.

The fact, that a PC-user has the opportunity to use mods - if there are any - does not "pacify" the PC-community.

 

I advised you to read through the archives. You'd easily note, that there are many posts, which complain about the

need to use mods. In the opinion of many, the companies exploit the community by not delivering standard stuff

like hairstyles and other basic customization features. Instead they "leave it to the modders" who are - mostly -

UNPAYED enthusiasts.

 

And again:

 

The PC-gamers are not responsible for your decision to buy a console.

 

It's always the same in real life: You get what you paid for.

[BansheeOwnage]

This is probably the most snarky post I have ever made....please forgive me.

 

You know what really bugs me! The hair they gave to Florianne and Clarel. So unattractive and unfeminine, Especially for Orlesians... oh dear!

I don't have a problem with Clarel's style... but I have a problem with the male-pattern baldness she has. Bioware, you're not doing it right.

 

Florianne's is odd. Doesn't Celene have that one too? I don't think the style suits her, but more importantly, as above: receding hairline! At least the mask covers it somewhat. Come on! It's so aggravating!

[perfect_victime]

Oh the days when they released the tool sets lol. Actually it is odd that there are no mods for DA:I out. Is the Frostbite Engine that hard for the computer elite to make mods for? I am as dumb as a rock so I am not in anyway questioning anyone's abilities. It is just DA:O and DA:2 both had mods for hair and clothing by this time. Maybe that is the point of the new engines, so they can't be exploited. Maybe exploited is too strong a word there.
 
I pictured Orlesions as having those Marie Antoinette type hair styles/wigs with jewels interlaced in them lol. That would have been so cool well IMO anyway.

[Basher of Glory]

Oh the days when they released the tool sets lol. Actually it is odd that there are no mods for DA:I out. Is the Frostbite Engine that hard for the computer elite to make mods for? I am as dumb as a rock so I am not in anyway questioning anyone's abilities. It is just DA:O and DA:2 both had mods for hair and clothing by this time. Maybe that is the point of the new engines, so they can't be exploited. Maybe exploited is too strong a word there.
 
I pictured Orlesions as having those Marie Antoinette type hair styles/wigs with jewels interlaced in them lol. That would have been so cool well IMO anyway.

According to the forums at Nexus it seems really hard to mod DA:I without a toolset.

When I browse through the available mods I can't see anything groundbreaking like the hair-mods were in NWN 2 and DA:O

 

You can trust the modders in so far, as they would if they could.

 

Then there is another point of view: When they (BW) release a toolset, what would happen? My guess:

 

1) Hair

2) Clothing

3) Skillbar vastly extended

4) AI

5) ...

 

In other words: Within a few weeks the PC-users would have a completely overhauled game FOR FREE with

tons of USEFUL if not URGENTLY NEEDED stuff.

 

The consequences - especially for DA:I - would be obvious:

 

The console-scene would start a revolt and demand death penalties for all responsible  persons in BW, EA etc.

Instead of buying the next gen console some of them would perhaps decide to buy a PC.... etc. (check #155 )

[perfect_victime]

The main consequence would be money. The mods would make the things you mentioned for free, and no one would buy a DLC for new armor, weapons, and other things. Also once a toolset for the Frostbite 3 is out, then mods for ME 4 would be out within days of its release. Again more money loss. I never bother much with the console vs PC battle. Except for the New Tomb Raider being X-box exclusive. That bites.

 

Just my opinion, but I don't believe any Hair DLCs will come out, as I mentioned before. If they do work on hair styles it will be for ME 4 and DA 4. Sadly.

 

They will release a couple more multi-player DLC, maybe another armor/mount/weapon DLC, and one more SP expansion DLC and then move on to their next project. Best we can hope for is that the SP expansion DLC will be a few new areas to explore, another big boss battle, and 20-30 hrs of added content. IMO. I hope Bioware proves me wrong and we get more, but I can't see it happening.

 

Back to hair styles. As you had stated NWN, KoToR, Jade Empire (can I count that one), and their two tent poles; Dragon Age and Mass Effect have always shown poor choices in hair styles. ME 3 was a big leap from the previous two games, but DA:2 hair choice is better than DA:3s. Your comment about the 'Painted on Hair" is so funny. One of those sad but trues things. lol

[Basher of Glory]

....Jade Empire (can I count that one),..

Why not? It was a good game, but ways too short - 10 to 15 hours playtime, IIRC.

There were mods but not many and - let's say - no essential ones.

The same goes for KotOR I and II

 

Like in KotOR there was no toolset, but easy to hack data-files. To install the mods was a major PITA, though.

 

At this time I was content to see half-decent "persons" on my screen instead of pixelated toons or cartoon-like

sprites. In this regard, both, JE and the KotOR games were a huge progress (compared to e.g. Baldurs Gate).

Nevertheless, hairstyles were not my concern these days

[Hanako Ikezawa]

With the Spoils of the Qunari DLC, the statues that decorate the main hall have better hair than is available to Qunari Inquisitors. That's sad. 

[Just My Moniker]

Perhaps better hairstyles is a reason for the next dlc being next-gen only?

 

Probably crack thinking since that seems like such an insignificant thing, especially considering neither DAO or DA2 got new hairstyles in dlc....

 

but I can always hope! My quizzy's are in a dire need of better hair 

[Basher of Glory]

Perhaps better hairstyles is a reason for the next dlc being next-gen only?

 

Probably crack thinking since that seems like such an insignificant thing, especially considering neither DAO or DA2 got new hairstyles in dlc....

 

but I can always hope! My quizzy's are in a dire need of better hair 

For DA:O and - to some extent - for DA II was no need for such a DLC.

What we got with the vanilla versions was rather ok and WAYS better than the impositions of DA:I

 

And then there were the mods as well ...

[Auztin]

Am I the only one that doesn't mind the current hairstyles?I actually hate the hair in Origins besides the Alistair cut.Everything was just the same with different braid.If they add more then that is cool but everyone does know hairstyles being worse than other games are purely subjective,right?Just my 2 cents.