48 réponses à ce sujet

[Pork]

For the god sake how it could be even build guide when I don't know what to take. I know that I need cool beats, it's upgrade and what... LKM? What to do with other skills? Put in random places?
So much information...

 

Key passives and abilities are listed in the video. The numbers listed are directly from the tooltips, so blame bioware for that one. Drasca pointed out the errors in the numbers and corrected me (and I thought I had the values spot on myself) on it. Yes, the numbers are wrong in the video (and more importantly in the tooltips) but the core gameplay doesn't change. Its not like if the numbers were accurate the playstyle would be drastically different.

 

Power chord is still very strong in CQC and cool beats is still a good DoT when attacking groups at range. Ultimately, thats the core of the video. 

[DragonRacer]

Why?

Author puts some damage numbers - they are ALL wrong, not one, just ALL.
Description does not have skill tree for second tree, just one, so lack of info in building
I'm pretty sure it's just a Wavebend build with maybe 1 passive changed. Nothing new, nothing worth. Waste of time and hard disk space.

 

Because the rest of this thread has very good use by presenting the correct numbers. Considering that happened within the first few posts, I felt that - if nothing else - holds value in being documented somewhere.

[Angry_Elcor]

Is there anything you don't complain about? Jeez...

 

Posts that agree with his friend?

 

Still main part is there. Why you link something the same as other build with zero effort put in it? We want resource library to be full of useful info or just full of trash?
Aren't point of those type of "resources" thread to gather, filter and show valid information's, not just everything?

 

The point definitely isn't to allow a single person to determine which information is valid and which isn't, which is why you don't get to decide. The fact that other people find the information useful is considered more important than the fact that you don't happen to like the author of the thread/video.

 

Why? Give me the reason why this build is worth being listed on resources list.

 

Because several people have already commented that they found the information useful. Their opinions are as valid as anyone's.

[Kenny Bania]

Is there anything useful and helpful you want to add to discussion? I should put you on ignore, I've never ever seen any post from you with anything useful.

 

Ooooh! The ignore list. I'm quaking in my boots.

[Texasmotiv]

Why? Give me the reason why this build is worth being listed on resources list.

 

 

I feel the video showcases the playstyle of cool beats quite well and its quick and easy to watch. If a new user were to watch the video, they would have an idea of how to build an offensive zither build. The math is not as important to your average player as it is to you. They are not going to notice mathematically that it is doing 100 more damage here than what the tooltip said.

 

Given recent history it seems that you have more of a personal axe to grind and really its not welcome in an otherwise civil discussion.

 

Even Drasca was having no issues speaking calmly and plainly about the mathematical correction, when you are becoming irate over something that really should not illicit such an emotional reaction.

 

If you want to argue with pork, please take it to PM before an otherwise helpful discussion sprials into another thunderdome.

[HeroicMass]

First off, I don't exactly appreciate the aggressive tone you are taking towards me. I have never had any personal conflict with you before, yet you are engaging me as if we have a feud or as if I have somehow personally and morally offended you. I do not appreciate your written tone right now.

 

Please, point out where any of the other links in the Resource Library are trash? One link you personally find questionable does not bring down the entire thing, nor does it mean someone else might not find it useful that literally the next posts in the thread correct the math that is wrong. Or would you rather that sort of correction just not have a place anywhere? We should just let this thread fade away and people who don't already know about the incorrect formulas can be left in the dark? Or they can look at this link and see in this thread the corrections and learn something from it.

 

Pork is the thread author. You would need to ask him about editing it into the original post. I do not control anyone else on this forum, so you are asking the wrong person about why he does or doesn't do something.

 

If there are other posts buried showing the corrected formulas, WHY DON'T YOU LINK ME TO THEM? I ask - repeatedly - in the OP of the Resource Library for people to send me links they think are valuable that are missing. I ask this because I do have a full-time job, a family, and things not forum-related to attend to, so it is literally impossible for me to view every single thread and immediately add it. So, yes, there is a very good chance some threads that deserve to be linked don't end up there if I do not see them and nobody else bothers to point them out to me.

 

This is not my job. This is something I do on my own time to try and be helpful to the community. If you feel I have left out good links, then send them to me so they can be added. But I DO NOT APPRECIATE being attacked and talked down to. Because there doesn't even have to be a Resource Library at all, you know.

 

yarpen has proven to be quite the angry poster on these boards.  You do wonderful work Dragon and yarpen needs to calm down and stop responding to posts on the internet like they have been personally injured by others typed words.  This is a message board for discussion.  Let's be civil here yarpen.

[Pork]

snip

 

You know what? You do nothing for this forum but complain. PF has made a huge amount of contributions to this forum. Dragonracer has made a huge amount of contributions to this forum. Don't insult and belittle people who actually put in hundreds, thousands of hours of unpaid work to help other players get a better gaming experience. Ever heard of the phrase "don't bite the hand that feeds you"?

 

I don't care for Drascas attitude at times, but he came into this thread and cleared up the numbers, cited his sources and delivered useful information, which anyone looking up this build will see. I also respect the time that he has invested into improving other players gameplay. 

 

Please be respectful when posting.

[Gya]

I think English may not be Yarpen's first language, so it's entirely possible that the aggressive tone is unintentional. Either that, or, well, his name is appropriate.

[Pork]

This is not my job. This is something I do on my own time to try and be helpful to the community. 

 

And we all love you for it.

[ALTBOULI]

Hey everyone. Let's keep it civil in here. Thank you.

A wild BiowareMod appears!

[yarpenthemad21]

snip

Info about DoT mechanic is buried somewhere in thunderdome thread.
http://forum.bioware...n-entry/page-25

and next pages of it, info about DoT, Cool beats, elemental vulnerability etc.

Resource library has way too much links in mechanic department, when many of them I would call more of "bonus" info.
IMO best thread around mechanic:
http://forum.bioware...mbat-mechanics/
This single link gives pretty much 80% of knowledge listed in mechanic part. Maybe this info isn't that much "trash" but noise it's for sure. Too much links with very specific info in them, like you know fire wraith -> rage demon nearby kind of stuff.
In general ppl in XXI century are bombarded with information all the time. Thread like this need to filter it and gives as much as possible with as less as possible links and entries. We will probably agree with that, that the more new links you add the less really useful it can became, searching for "good" link can be time consuming.

As for this build. I don't know who told you that this build thread is worth putting on resource page. For me it's lazy and what is even more important it's not new build. Lacks pretty much in every department, starting at false info, ending on badly linked skill build on youtube.
If your goal is to link every build, you can do it. But think about it in that way, someone go to your thread, want build for whatever and ends up with huge lists. List on which you can find also lazy build, identical builds, etc. If this is you way of doing it, you can, but it won't end well.

If I will make thread, "yarpen builds" and just say there
"General advise, build and gear your class so it's good" would you link that thread as useful too?

[ALTBOULI]

Another good thread ruined by DragonRacer's rabblerousing! When will this madness end!?!

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

*snip*

 

If we're not allowed to link information that contains mistakes, then even the resources provided by BioWare employees wouldn't be allowed. Information contains mistakes. That's part of life.

 

It is even more important not to be selective about what mistakes are allowed on the basis of whether we have a personal issue with the person providing the information.

[DragonRacer]

Info about DoT mechanic is buried somewhere in thunderdome thread.
http://forum.bioware...n-entry/page-25

and next pages of it, info about DoT, Cool beats, elemental vulnerability etc.

Resource library has way too much links in mechanic department, when many of them I would call more of "bonus" info.
IMO best thread around mechanic:
http://forum.bioware...mbat-mechanics/
This single link gives pretty much 80% of knowledge listed in mechanic part. Maybe this info isn't that much "trash" but noise it's for sure. Too much links with very specific info in them, like you know fire wraith -> rage demon nearby kind of stuff.
In general ppl in XXI century are bombarded with information all the time. Thread like this need to filter it and gives as much as possible with as less as possible links and entries. We will probably agree with that, that the more new links you add the less really useful it can became, searching for "good" link can be time consuming.

As for this build. I don't know who told you that this build thread is worth putting on resource page. For me it's lazy and what is even more important it's not new build. Lacks pretty much in every department, starting at false info, ending on badly linked skill build on youtube.
If your goal is to link every build, you can do it. But think about it in that way, someone go to your thread, want build for whatever and ends up with huge lists. List on which you can find also lazy build, identical builds, etc. If this is you way of doing it, you can, but it won't end well.

If I will make thread, "yarpen builds" and just say there
"General advise, build and gear your class so it's good" would you link that thread as useful too?

 

I have no problem adding the specific pages that were useful from the Thunderdome thread to the Statistical Data section. I appreciate that you linked the exact page that started the useful discussion and I will add it later tonight after I've had dinner.

 

I understand that having a lot of links can be unwieldy, but that is why I've taken efforts to try and condense the sections by using spoiler tags, so people can just open what section they want to browse through. My goal is not necessarily to only include "the best" links, however one would define that. My goal is to give people a variety of options. So, yes, the Character Build section will have possibly several links for builds. To be honest, there are not very many people making content posts such as descriptive builds like Drasca does or YouTube videos like Penguin and Mortiel do, so I don't honestly see the harm in just including them (especially when incorrect info is corrected in the immediate posts of the thread so people can be advised to it). It is, sadly, not like the ME3MP forum where we had soooo many different build threads, that it really had to be cut down to just a few threads that the most active content makers created to house all their builds.

 

And to answer your last question, yes. If you were to make a thread with all of your builds and you provided helpful videos and described in text recommendations on playstyle, equipment, skill abilities, and the like, I would add it, even if you might think it redundant to do so. That it could possibly be repetitive compared to another user's thread is inconsequential to me, as people consuming the information may have an easier time understanding your guides as opposed to someone else's guide, for example. Having options to choose from for seeking out content is a good thing, in my opinion.

 

 

Another good thread ruined by DragonRacer's rabblerousing! When will this madness end!?!

 

Clearly, I am a menace to society and need to be stopped. Quickly, somebody slay me before it's too late!

[yarpenthemad21]

You know what? You do nothing for this forum but complain. PF has made a huge amount of contributions to this forum. Dragonracer has made a huge amount of contributions to this forum. Don't insult and belittle people who actually put in hundreds, thousands of hours of unpaid work to help other players get a better gaming experience. Ever heard of the phrase "don't bite the hand that feeds you"?
 
I don't care for Drascas attitude at times, but he came into this thread and cleared up the numbers, cited his sources and delivered useful information, which anyone looking up this build will see. I also respect the time that he has invested into improving other players gameplay. 
 
Please be respectful when posting.

If telling that something obviously lazy is lazy feel as insult for everybody I will ask some questions and try to make something useful from this "build". Probably editing first post with additional info would help future readers.

1. What's the build order?
2. Youtube links looks working now so about skills, difference between this build and Wavebend is very small, pretty much 2 passives and Battle of the Bands. What does it change in gameplay?
3. Gear advise, mostly for ring and amulet?
4. Usability of build on lower promotions? How LKM (and Fortifying Apreggio) works on lower levels virtuoso (they scale with level)? How long Fortifying Apreggio bonus last? How much it gives? How to play to get it useful as possible? (because video shows barrier less gameplay and I assume that those skills should help with that)
5. Build has Battle of the Bands songs, but videos is more focused on LKM and cool beats. When to use Battle of Bands? LKM and CB got some synergy (both use fire and cold only) so how to mix Battle of the Bands with it?
6. Why strength of the spirits? Build in general skip barrier passive, so why this?

[Texasmotiv]

Some of your questions are general to the virtuoso and others are beyond the scope of a short video build guide.

Some are valid and I'm sure the content creator would answer them if he wasn't banned.

[ALTBOULI]

Nice vid OP - i've been meaning to try an offensive Zither build (the support build while effective is so boring). I think I will give this a go when I next play 

[Texasmotiv]

Try messaging him on YouTube or Reddit.

[yarpenthemad21]

Try messaging him on YouTube or Reddit.

You mean I should message him there?
I can't even find his reddit...can't see a link anywhere here, so what's even a point with answers out there where don't know here about it?
Also I'm more into answering those questions in public, so everyone could take something from it, general idea for every build thread on forum, ppl just want to ask questions and get answers from the build author.

[DragonRacer]

Actually, one could try messaging apocalypse_owl. From what I understand, they are very close buddies with PenguinFetish and so could relay such questions and responses.

 

Probably the best work-around considering the ban.

[Drasca]

They are not going to notice mathematically that it is doing 100 more damage here than what the tooltip said.

 

Typically when the math is wrong, the player goes in with the wrong expectations and tends to die as a result of misleading information. Caveat Emptor and all taking advice from the internet, but having correct math is important. Less important in a game than in real life, but important to the player feeling the result (death, usually).

 

 

This is not my job. This is something I do on my own time to try and be helpful to the community. If you feel I have left out good links, then send them to me so they can be added. But I DO NOT APPRECIATE being attacked and talked down to. Because there doesn't even have to be a Resource Library at all, you know.

 

Yarpen, the thing is, its Dragonracer's personal thread, her work and her call, and we should respect that. You're free to make contributions, suggestions, and even your own of course. I made mine certainly.

 

 

Clearly, I am a menace to society and need to be stopped. Quickly, somebody slay me before it's too late!

 

I know you're joking but I feel that way about the non-productive and non-civil posters, and you're the furthest from that.

 

PS, PM me what you're doing with that Sulevin Blade

[SpaceV3gan]

Cool Beats? Wait, why have I always called it Cold Beats?
I've promoted my Virtuoso 31 times and I would still be calling it Cold Beats if I had not read the title of this thread. I feel weird now.

[DragonRacer]

Hmmm, checked my "like" notifications and it took me to the OP of the thread. That's when I noticed my long "don't-tase-me-bro" post was missing, along with Yarpen's I'd been responding to (mine was deleted, I assume, because it contained a quote of his post which is now also deleted; I assume this as I have not received a PM from a mod and no warning points so it was likely a casualty due to quoting).

 

Just wanted to say publicly that I hold no malice towards Yarpen. I've a feeling this may have happened due to someone reporting his post. By all means, if you felt the need due to general atmosphere, that's fine and I more than understand. I just hope no one did it "on my behalf" or anything of that nature. I certainly didn't report him myself; I much rather attempt to work things out before seeking mod intervention and I am far more likely to put someone on the ignore list before actually reporting them. And it could just be that the mod did so because they already warned the thread once and were reading through the newest posts.

 

Just felt a need to say that, though. To his credit, Yarpen was very civil after I yelped at him about tone, so I hope he is not in too much trouble from all this.

 

My two cents. Carry on with the Cool Beats conversation.

[Drasca]

Simply put, its 150% * 3.0 (200%) = 450% for 4m and 150% * 5.0 (400%) = 750%.

 

Close but not quite (which can make a big difference). If I reorder the formula it is actually the (ability_multiplier x damage_multiplier + ability_multiplier x attack_bonus) x (crit damage bonus + flanking bonus) x (whatever other stuff I'm missing) . . . so you're missing adding in attack power in there, which is the attack_bonus (and all the other factors).

 

The crit bonus damage multiplier alone can be a factor of 1.4 (base) to 2.41* on a Virtuoso

 

Leading the overall weapon damage with critical hit to be over 1.8k weapon damage with Mindchill (still haven't factored in other stuff), and over 1.4k weapon damage with Dragon Staff

 

*SCBD Rings 20% each (these stack), Dex Amulet worth 10%, Mindchill staff with all offense leather staff upgrades 51%

 

Flanking an enemy is relatively simple with PC and just adds to this figure's damage too. I've seen an upwards of 6k final electrical damage when lyrium potion and mighty offense are both applied, and routinely 3-4k vs Brutes with criticals / flanking (no potions).