429 réponses à ce sujet

[Beerfish]

There is nothing wrong with some fetch quests as long as a bit of imagination is used in their creation.  They are often needed to pace the game and pace the EXP rewards and leveling up thus game balance.  I'd like to see fetch quests have a lot more replay value and I don;t see why they do not have a random reward for many of them.  (As in you will not get the exact same payoff each time you do the quest.)

[Hiemoth]

Bioware was genuinely befuddled that people were completionists to such an extent. They just never anticipated people would try and run through all this content in one go, so it was mostly there as a "stuff to do while running around" or "stuff to do while meeting the minimum influence cut-off". There's either some twitter exchanges with Laidlaw or an interview where, basically, he expresses the deer-in-headlights reaction. So I anticipate ME:A will approach the issue differently. 

 

What made Laidlaw's reaction so weird for me was that during the marketing blitz for DAI, Laidlaw stated several times how he wanted the exploration to feel rewarding and people just continuing to dig in to find all the cool stuff. Then when people did that and complained about the lack of actual content, Laidlaw was caught by surprise by it. The disconnect before his statements before and after was somewhat befuddling.

 

Although the biggest question I continue to have about their confusion is the shard quest. They created a specific map for the shard quest, made it this enticing sidequest, but then were surprised when people actually went through the trouble to collect the shards? Even to the point that they didn't actually bother giving that sidequest a meaningful feeling ending?

[Laughing_Man]

There is nothing wrong with some fetch quests as long as a bit of imagination is used in their creation.  They are often needed to pace the game and pace the EXP rewards and leveling up thus game balance.  I'd like to see fetch quests have a lot more replay value and I don;t see why they do not have a random reward for many of them.  (As in you will not get the exact same payoff each time you do the quest.)

 

"Fetch quests" done with imagination and replay value (essentially "meat") are not necessarily "fetch quests".

 

The problem is not with an interesting quest that requires you to fetch something, rather with a quest that is all about an NPC telling you "go fetch"

[Elhanan]

Using past games in the series, I would like more like returning a poem written from a Krogan to his widow, as these characters had been uniquely with us for a while. Also like the ones that help races heal, overcome adversity, etc.; events of importance.

However, missions such as the Rings of Alune, pantaloons, and other non-essential artifacts can vanish. I would rather gain XP by collecting all those banter points to complete a story about Joker's family, con man on the Citadel, etc.

[Killroy]

What made Laidlaw's reaction so weird for me was that during the marketing blitz for DAI, Laidlaw stated several times how he wanted the exploration to feel rewarding and people just continuing to dig in to find all the cool stuff. Then when people did that and complained about the lack of actual content, Laidlaw was caught by surprise by it. The disconnect before his statements before and after was somewhat befuddling.

 

Although the biggest question I continue to have about their confusion is the shard quest. They created a specific map for the shard quest, made it this enticing sidequest, but then were surprised when people actually went through the trouble to collect the shards? Even to the point that they didn't actually bother giving that sidequest a meaningful feeling ending?

 

I remember gathering all of those ****ing shards and unlocking all of those rooms before I knew how pointless it was. I probably spent an entire weekend on that. I thought it would have some relevance to the plot or at least to Solas. 

 

[Catilina]

I don't like filler quests and gathering. Let's imagine a man, who is impatient, but a bit maximalist, and have OCD... 

 

So let's see what happen in my mind:

 

"okay, I done with all the important quests in Hinterland, let's move on!"

"hmmm... I'm sure, I done ALL important quests?"

"don't worry, just move!"

"okay, lets go!"

...

"I see some quests are left... and I see shards, mosaics and bottles..."

"Just MOVE! F@CK!"

"but..."

"MOVE!"

"okay..."

...

"...but the druffalo, and the goat..."

"I dont want to escort a fuckin goat!"

"but..."

"MOVE!"

...

"Okay, lets go back to Hinterland! Once more, and never anymore!"

 

Man, this is so tiresome!

[Paul E Dangerously]

I remember gathering all of those ****ing shards and unlocking all of those rooms before I knew how pointless it was. I probably spent an entire weekend on that. I thought it would have some relevance to the plot or at least to Solas.

 

Y'know, as many other quests got rewards buffed up by Trespasser, why in the blazes didn't Bioware at least do something for that? Where the hell did they get their inspiration for "a quest that takes the entire game and lots of tedium for basically no reward", Ultima 9?

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Dear BioWare,

 

Please no stupid fetch quests like in DA: Inquisition.

 

Thank you!

 

Please define what you think a stupid fetch quest is. Is for instance is fetching resources for armor, weapons, and potions stupid? Is fetching wood and stone to repair/build/upgrade your base stupid? Is fetching soldiers/spies/merchants to help you battle against a powerful monster stupid? 

 

Is fetching a bunch of stones to unlock a door to a temple that has plenty of gold and stat upgrades stupid?

 

Just because you didn't like the so-called "fetch" quests in DA:I which BTW is the part of the plot of most RPGs doesn't mean everybody did or that they didn't serve to help advance the game's story.

[Beerfish]

"Fetch quests" done with imagination and replay value (essentially "meat") are not necessarily "fetch quests".

 

The problem is not with an interesting quest that requires you to fetch something, rather with a quest that is all about an NPC telling you "go fetch"

Wut?

 

A fetch quest is a fetch quest.  Basically saying, oh this fetch quest was pretty good because it made sense and was well integrated into the story does not suddenly exclude it from being a fetch quest.

[Laughing_Man]

Wut?

 

A fetch quest is a fetch quest.  Basically saying, oh this fetch quest was pretty good because it made sense and was well integrated into the story does not suddenly exclude it from being a fetch quest.

 

The point is, sometimes you can reduce the entire plot of a story and describe it as a "fetch-quest" for whatever is the MacGuffin if you really want to.

 

The difference is that the derogatory term "fetch quest" is about more than simply the act of fetching an item, and more about the way this quest archetype is handled.

[Paul E Dangerously]

 

Is fetching a bunch of stones to unlock a door to a temple that has plenty of gold and stat upgrades stupid?

 

By the point you can actually get it, you're swimming in gold Scrooge McDuck style. As far as stat upgrades, DAI goes out of the way to make them so much less important than in DAO/DA2, because the numbers are all so inflated.

[Sylvius the Mad]

You want no story, no cutscenes, D&D combat rules that are ever-present in text form, no guidance, and no obligatory gameplay like combat. What you want is not a video game. What you want is a single-person D&D campaign where nothing happens.

Lots of stuff happens. But I get to be the one doing it, rather than just being a spectator.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Y'know, as many other quests got rewards buffed up by Trespasser, why in the blazes didn't Bioware at least do something for that? Where the hell did they get their inspiration for "a quest that takes the entire game and lots of tedium for basically no reward", Ultima 9?

Hey, I liked Ultima 9.

[Sartoz]

What made Laidlaw's reaction so weird for me was that during the marketing blitz for DAI, Laidlaw stated several times how he wanted the exploration to feel rewarding and people just continuing to dig in to find all the cool stuff. Then when people did that and complained about the lack of actual content, Laidlaw was caught by surprise by it. The disconnect before his statements before and after was somewhat befuddling.

 

Although the biggest question I continue to have about their confusion is the shard quest. They created a specific map for the shard quest, made it this enticing sidequest, but then were surprised when people actually went through the trouble to collect the shards? Even to the point that they didn't actually bother giving that sidequest a meaningful feeling ending?

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Yep... a true wizard at pitching snake oils to customers.

 

I wonder if he will market their new IP...

[Laughing_Man]

Yep... a true wizard at pitching snake oils to customers.

 

I wonder if he will market their new IP...

 

His videos are probably what sold me on DA:I despite my initial skepticism.

And considering that I didn't particularly enjoy the final product, I guess he knows a thing or two about selling video games.

[The Hierophant]

I remember gathering all of those ****ing shards and unlocking all of those rooms before I knew how pointless it was. I probably spent an entire weekend on that. I thought it would have some relevance to the plot or at least to Solas. 

I know. The emptiness that i felt afterwards was something else.

 

Spoiler

[straykat]

His videos are probably what sold me on DA:I despite my initial skepticism.

And considering that I didn't particularly enjoy the final product, I guess he knows a thing or two about selling video games.

 

Heh... I was never skeptical to begin with. So I'm worse.

[Sartoz]

So, that would make this the first cRPG in existence without "stupid fetch quests".

 

If I were you, I wouldn't pre-order.

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Oh, I learned my lesson.

 

If I do buy it, it will be on sale.

[straykat]

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Oh, I learned my lesson.

 

If I do buy it, it will be on sale.

 

Bargain bin sale, you mean.

[Kabraxal]

What made Laidlaw's reaction so weird for me was that during the marketing blitz for DAI, Laidlaw stated several times how he wanted the exploration to feel rewarding and people just continuing to dig in to find all the cool stuff. Then when people did that and complained about the lack of actual content, Laidlaw was caught by surprise by it. The disconnect before his statements before and after was somewhat befuddling.

 

Although the biggest question I continue to have about their confusion is the shard quest. They created a specific map for the shard quest, made it this enticing sidequest, but then were surprised when people actually went through the trouble to collect the shards? Even to the point that they didn't actually bother giving that sidequest a meaningful feeling ending?

 

I think he expected people to actually notice things without having the huge blinking neon sign of a cutscene over every possible discovery... I know I found plenty and continue to discover new things almost 2 years out because there are so many details built into the world that you can miss them if you expect everything to be spoon fed to you.  That is why the continued cries of "empty!" and "lacking content!" doesn't make much sense.  They don't have a cutscene and they actually have to not just discovered, but the player has to pause to take in the scene instead of the game pausing itself to give you the explanation to why what you just discovered is important or dark or that you discovered something.

 

I think that is the issue... most people want the game to take control for every little thing and lay it all out in an easy to process format to explain what you are looking at and why it is important instead of actually roleplaying and thinking a discovery through. 

[straykat]

I think he expected people to actually notice things without having the huge blinking neon sign of a cutscene over every possible discovery... I know I found plenty and continue to discover new things almost 2 years out because there are so many details built into the world that you can miss them if you expect everything to be spoon fed to you.  That is why the continued cries of "empty!" and "lacking content!" doesn't make much sense.  They don't have a cutscene and they actually have to not just discovered, but the player has to pause to take in the scene instead of the game pausing itself to give you the explanation to why what you just discovered is important or dark or that you discovered something.

 

I think that is the issue... most people want the game to take control for every little thing and lay it all out in an easy to process format to explain what you are looking at and why it is important instead of actually roleplaying and thinking a discovery through. 

 

I don't want cut scenes. You're treating it like it's some rich sandbox, when it's no different than any ubisoft game. Just different gameplay mechanic.

 

We've all played open world games here.... I hope.

[Killroy]

Please define what you think a stupid fetch quest is. Is for instance is fetching resources for armor, weapons, and potions stupid? Is fetching wood and stone to repair/build/upgrade your base stupid? Is fetching soldiers/spies/merchants to help you battle against a powerful monster stupid? 
 
Is fetching a bunch of stones to unlock a door to a temple that has plenty of gold and stat upgrades stupid?
 
Just because you didn't like the so-called "fetch" quests in DA:I which BTW is the part of the plot of most RPGs doesn't mean everybody did or that they didn't serve to help advance the game's story.

 
This is nonsense. What fetchquests in DAI were part of the plot? What fetchquests were vital to the story?
 

Lots of stuff happens. But I get to be the one doing it, rather than just being a spectator.

 
But you want to determine exactly what happens, which is simply not possible. I don't understand why you refuse to accept that.
 

I think he expected people to actually notice things without having the huge blinking neon sign of a cutscene over every possible discovery...

 
That's such a BS cop out that you keep using. There's nothing subtle or intellectual about the optional "content" of DAI, and people who don't like fetchquests and endless screens of text rather than actual content are not dumber than you. Pretending that the fetchquests and such are what BioWare always envisioned or intended for DAI is just silly. They freely admit that they had to cut content to make release and to accommodate race selection so why would fetchquests be immune to content cuts? The entire point of fetchquests is that they take very little time and effort to make. Deep, interesting sidequests take a lot of time, but stumbling across items and giving them to random NPCs takes no time at all because they have no substance.

[Gothfather]

What made Laidlaw's reaction so weird for me was that during the marketing blitz for DAI, Laidlaw stated several times how he wanted the exploration to feel rewarding and people just continuing to dig in to find all the cool stuff. Then when people did that and complained about the lack of actual content, Laidlaw was caught by surprise by it. The disconnect before his statements before and after was somewhat befuddling.

 

Although the biggest question I continue to have about their confusion is the shard quest. They created a specific map for the shard quest, made it this enticing sidequest, but then were surprised when people actually went through the trouble to collect the shards? Even to the point that they didn't actually bother giving that sidequest a meaningful feeling ending?

 

 

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Yep... a true wizard at pitching snake oils to customers.

 

I wonder if he will market their new IP...

 

You two and Laidlaw all suffer from the one thing that is so bloody common with gamers this idea that your subjective tastes are objectively correct. Laidlaw obviously comes to the issue with the exact opposite position as yourselves. He loves exploration and because for him it isn't downtime collecting shards and exploring the world is rewarding so the little bit at the oasis is just a nice added bonus and he figured everyone would love it too. You chaps obviously are not exploration players so the investment in time was not worth it you had all this down time collecting the shards with no 'pay off' worth the grind. Laidlaw isn't a snake oil salesmen or a liar or conning players he simply suffers from the same thing you two suffer from the inability to understand that SUBJECTIVE tastes are actually subjective and not everyone hold the same ones as yourselves. I think DA:I is one of Bioware's best games. Of all the issues I have with it the world isn't one of them but i know this is a subjective position. I also beleive that the biggest problem with DA:I was too much player choice. They gave lots of choice but no substance once you made that choice which extends to so many aspects from companions/advisors, multiple voice options for the protagonist and so many race choices. All this player choices cost money which means we got choice but so little money was spent on the choices beyond their inclusion that the choices became pretty thin and pointless.

 

This is why I say if you do not love exploration in games DA:I is NOT the game for you. I mean it isn't the game for you at all because so much of the pay off in DA:I is in the exploration of the game and its just not going to be an enjoyable experience if you have to "grind" the zones to get power to progress the stories. Even if you can skip the majority of the quests to acquire the needed power. But if you love exploration then travelling through the environments of these vast zones isn't a grind, it isn't downtime so you are going to find it a rewarding experience. This isn't new for Bioware, to create a game that is so singularly focused in the DA series. If you play most of the DA games on easy to get through the combat as fast as possible just to enjoy the stories of these games then you will likely have a positive feeling for DA2. There is a reason why people like this game even if it is hated by many/majority. Each year on the forums more and more people will post post how much they enjoyed the game and Hawke often wins best protagonist polls on the forums, which causes the 'mah warden' crowd to go apesh!t. People hate DA2 for gameplay issues but if gameplay isn't why you play bioware games then DA2 isn't the bottom of the barrel for you.  I normally play on the toughest difficulty levels for Bioware games but DA2 was such a terrible game for its environments and combat that I put it on easiest just so I could get through it as fast as possible. yet my experience is subjective and not objectively correct. Nothing I say will convince people that DA2 is a bad game if they don't share my subjective opinion. Likewise laidlaw will never convince some people that DA:I was a great game but no one on these forums will ever convince me that DA:I wasn't a good game either. I put in over 400 hours into DA:I, I loved it but I love it because I enjoy exploring for its own sake.

[straykat]

I can like exploration games. What I want out of an open world is emergent play. Which they don't have. Even some improvements on the AI would go a long way.

 

But either way, it's not my biggest complaint anyhow. I could have liked it more if the story itself didn't suck.

[Sylvius the Mad]

But you want to determine exactly what happens, which is simply not possible. I don't understand why you refuse to accept that.

No, I want to decide what my character does. The world can react to that or not, as it sees fit.