429 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

I can like exploration games. What I want out of an open world is emergent play. Which they don't have. Even some improvements on the AI would go a long way.

But either way, it's not my biggest complaint anyhow. I could have liked it more if the story itself didn't suck.

And since I'm indifferent to the story, its quality doesn't matter so much to me.

[TheRatPack55]

I think he expected people to actually notice things without having the huge blinking neon sign of a cutscene over every possible discovery... I know I found plenty and continue to discover new things almost 2 years out because there are so many details built into the world that you can miss them if you expect everything to be spoon fed to you.  That is why the continued cries of "empty!" and "lacking content!" doesn't make much sense.  They don't have a cutscene and they actually have to not just discovered, but the player has to pause to take in the scene instead of the game pausing itself to give you the explanation to why what you just discovered is important or dark or that you discovered something.

 

I think that is the issue... most people want the game to take control for every little thing and lay it all out in an easy to process format to explain what you are looking at and why it is important instead of actually roleplaying and thinking a discovery through. 

 

Wait, what? In my experience of DAI there was no sense of discovery or the slightest possibility to miss things unless I avoided them on purpose, there was a huge blinking neon sign over every little insignificant fetch quest, and the worst thing is the items didn't even exist before you activated said neon sign. Everything was spoon fed. I went over an empty patch of land to get to a huge exclamation mark, and then had to go back to the same place again because there was suddenly a quest mark there, then go back to the exclamation mark again. I discovered nothing. The game literally took control of my every action.

[Kabraxal]

I don't want cut scenes. You're treating it like it's some rich sandbox, when it's no different than any ubisoft game. Just different gameplay mechanic.

 

We've all played open world games here.... I hope.

 

Ubisoft doesn't have intricate details built into most of the optional content. I am a huge fan of Far Cry and AC, but there worlds are mostly filled with things just to have things to do.  It isn't about building lore or a world that feels truly lived in, but a world where there are things to do all over (which AC got hammered for the last few iterations before Syndicate finally tacked back).  Inquisition's is spaced out so there may be stretches of wilderness between these "things" and then it is almost all tied back into the lore and world to where it isn't just a "o, this was randomly placed just to fill space... it is here because X".  Though I can admit the shards are more or less random.  I always wanted to know why they ended up where they were... but then maybe I am just missing it.  This run I've discovered a lot of new details that added to the world.

 

I've played various types of open world games, and very few with the level of detail, breadth, and depth of Inquisition. 

 
This is nonsense. What fetchquests in DAI were part of the plot? What fetchquests were vital to the story?
 

 
But you want to determine exactly what happens, which is simply not possible. I don't understand why you refuse to accept that.
 

 
That's such a BS cop out that you keep using. There's nothing subtle or intellectual about the optional "content" of DAI, and people who don't like fetchquests and endless screens of text rather than actual content are not dumber than you. Pretending that the fetchquests and such are what BioWare always envisioned or intended for DAI is just silly. They freely admit that they had to cut content to make release and to accommodate race selection so why would fetchquests be immune to content cuts? The entire point of fetchquests is that they take very little time and effort to make. Deep, interesting sidequests take a lot of time, but stumbling across items and giving them to random NPCs takes no time at all because they have no substance.

It's not about being dumber, it's about being patient and a role player involved in the world.  You want the game to take control.  I enjoy having the control to ignore or take the time to find out why I find a body next to a set table by a frozen lake or to explore a ruin that is ancient and find the little details that later pull right back into a "holy ****, that temple was just like the Temple of Mythal!".  You don't get that if you simply run through the world waiting for the game to pause and go "hey hey.. this is important, remember it!". 

 

That is what I'm pointing out... people want the game to pause and take control to point out things to you.  There are other gamers that love to have that moment of discovery and "epiphany" when we realise what we just found.  As I've said, when it finally hit me that Solas was gazing at a wall not "lost in thought", but for designing what would be the next painting, it was an awesome little moment.  I would have been cheated of that if they drew into a cutscene and he started talking about how he was going to paint... or the game sending up giant fireworks in the Temple of Dirthamen going "hey hey remember this! It isn't just a nice little side quest!  There is a subtle connection here!".  Crying out loud, I'm easily on at least my 6th run and I'm still having these little moments of epiphany. 

 

Time to stop acting like your style is the only one that matters.  In fact, your "deep and interesting" quests, especially those touted continually around here, are very rarely truly deep or all that interesting... they just have a tacked on cutscene to hide the fact it is the same damn quest you have done a half dozen times before. 

 

I can like exploration games. What I want out of an open world is emergent play. Which they don't have. Even some improvements on the AI would go a long way.

 

But either way, it's not my biggest complaint anyhow. I could have liked it more if the story itself didn't suck.

 

Ah.  Then you must have enjoyed Metal Gear Solid V..... it has emergent gameplay, but the open world is boring, has no reason to explore, and the only merit that game has is "emergent gameplay".  I prefer discovery over "I can have my horse poop on the road and cause a spin out!" moments.  That only is fun for a few times before it is "okay, is there anything deeper to this game?".  We have wildly different expectations and preferences for what we want in an open world game.  Inquisition allows me to roleplay and it lets me make discoveries even hundreds of hours in on multiple runs.  Add to that the companion quests, judgments, the war table, and the main questline and there is a game that trounces on almost all other games in my opinion. 

[Killroy]

No, I want to decide what my character does. The world can react to that or not, as it sees fit.

 

But that's completely unreasonable since you want the freedom to do anything that pops into your head. A video game made by someone else is never going to be able to accommodate your unrealistic expectations. 

[straykat]

 

Ah.  Then you must have enjoyed Metal Gear Solid V..... it has emergent gameplay, but the open world is boring, has no reason to explore, and the only merit that game has is "emergent gameplay".  I prefer discovery over "I can have my horse poop on the road and cause a spin out!" moments.  That only is fun for a few times before it is "okay, is there anything deeper to this game?".  We have wildly different expectations and preferences for what we want in an open world game.  Inquisition allows me to roleplay and it lets me make discoveries even hundreds of hours in on multiple runs.  Add to that the companion quests, judgments, the war table, and the main questline and there is a game that trounces on almost all other games in my opinion. 

 

I do, but I wouldn't limit to metal gear, of course.

 

Even if you don't like "horse poop", the point is that more than just the space is open. That's what I want out of open worlds. But besides that, and I've told you in another thread, the space is just theme parky. Half of which is about lore I don't care for in that game anyways. I don't buy a game called Inquisition to get almost anything but. Like Ancient Elves and Patrick Weekes' shitty poetry. There's a time and place for everything.

[Killroy]

It's not about being dumber, it's about being patient and a role player involved in the world.  You want the game to take control.  I enjoy having the control to ignore or take the time to find out why I find a body next to a set table by a frozen lake or to explore a ruin that is ancient and find the little details that later pull right back into a "holy ****, that temple was just like the Temple of Mythal!".  You don't get that if you simply run through the world waiting for the game to pause and go "hey hey.. this is important, remember it!". 
 
That is what I'm pointing out... people want the game to pause and take control to point out things to you.  There are other gamers that love to have that moment of discovery and "epiphany" when we realise what we just found.  As I've said, when it finally hit me that Solas was gazing at a wall not "lost in thought", but for designing what would be the next painting, it was an awesome little moment.  I would have been cheated of that if they drew into a cutscene and he started talking about how he was going to paint... or the game sending up giant fireworks in the Temple of Dirthamen going "hey hey remember this! It isn't just a nice little side quest!  There is a subtle connection here!".  Crying out loud, I'm easily on at least my 6th run and I'm still having these little moments of epiphany. 
 
Time to stop acting like your style is the only one that matters.  In fact, your "deep and interesting" quests, especially those touted continually around here, are very rarely truly deep or all that interesting... they just have a tacked on cutscene to hide the fact it is the same damn quest you have done a half dozen times before.

You're still insinuating that you're smarter than everyone who disagrees with you. Some of the stuff you talk about as being so rich and engaging is just made up in your head. You also act as if your child-like wonderment over every cowpie you see is somehow the result of DAI being so amazing and that the rest of us are just cretins. 

 

"Whoa, there's another dead guy over there! And here, in the shack right next to his identical shack, is a wall of text that explains that his business partner killed him and took his stuff! Amazing! GOTY! GOAT!"

"I collected these items for that guy, and he took them! Holy crap! Such a rich and vibrant world, where people want the things they ask for! GOTY! GOAT!"

"Whoa, that guy said there would be a goat here, and there is a goat here! Amazing! GOTY! Goat GOAT!"

 

Forgive me for not jumping over the moon at the prospect of wandering around and finding flavor text to read and menial errands to run. There is nothing player-oriented or engrossing about it. The game is explicitly holding your hand by giving you mindless tasks in succession that require zero skill or intellect to complete. 

[DarkKnightHolmes]

I'm currently my on 3rd play through of DAI (Man, this game takes long to finish) and I have to say this:

 

F**k the Exalted plain.

 

It's just repetitive, boring and  the land of fetching.

 

Get 10 caches! Get 7 notes! Get 4 glyphs! Burn 2 billion bodies!

 

Who thought this was a good idea? Just go around and collect random stuff from the floor?? So fun! /s

[Killroy]

Who thought this was a good idea? Just go around and collect random stuff from the floor?? So fun! /s

 

Developers who made giant maps before realizing they had to put things in the maps for players to have an enjoyable experience. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

But that's completely unreasonable since you want the freedom to do anything that pops into your head.

No I don't. I've never asked for that.

I don't know why people think I want that much freedom. That's obviously impossible.

CRPGs did accommodate me. Many years ago. They dropped me in a world and let decide what I wanted to do there. Newer games give me fewer options, but some of them still let me choose among those options.

DAI mostly does what I want. CRPGs from 1985 did exactly what I want.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'm currently my on 3rd play through of DAI (Man, this game takes long to finish) and I have to say this:

F**k the Exalted plain.

It's just repetitive, boring and the land of fetching.

Get 10 caches! Get 7 notes! Get 4 glyphs! Burn 2 billion bodies!

Who thought this was a good idea? Just go around and collect random stuff from the floor?? So fun! /s

So why are you doing it? Those quests aren't mandatory.

[Kabraxal]

I do, but I wouldn't limit to metal gear, of course.

 

Even if you don't like "horse poop", the point is that more than just the space is open. That's what I want out of open worlds. But besides that, and I've told you in another thread, the space is just theme parky. Half of which is about lore I don't care for in that game anyways. I don't buy a game called Inquisition to get almost anything but. Like Ancient Elves and Patrick Weekes' shitty poetry. There's a time and place for everything.

 

Except I found MGSV to be flat, dull, and shallow.  So we are clearly not operating off the same value system in term of what we get from these games. 

 

You're still insinuating that you're smarter than everyone who disagrees with you. Some of the stuff you talk about as being so rich and engaging is just made up in your head. You also act as if your child-like wonderment over every cowpie you see is somehow the result of DAI being so amazing and that the rest of us are just cretins. 

 

"Whoa, there's another dead guy over there! And here, in the shack right next to his identical shack, is a wall of text that explains that his business partner killed him and took his stuff! Amazing! GOTY! GOAT!"

"I collected these items for that guy, and he took them! Holy crap! Such a rich and vibrant world, where people want the things they ask for! GOTY! GOAT!"

"Whoa, that guy said there would be a goat here, and there is a goat here! Amazing! GOTY! Goat GOAT!"

 

Forgive me for not jumping over the moon at the prospect of wandering around and finding flavor text to read and menial errands to run. There is nothing player-oriented or engrossing about it. The game is explicitly holding your hand by giving you mindless tasks in succession that require zero skill or intellect to complete. 

 

Except you are the one continually showcasing a bad attitude in these discussions.  Just look at this post and how hard you are trying to dismiss everything with pithy remarks and pathetically shallow and biased statements. You can't explain why having details abound in the world is bad.   You can't explain why the content is actually lesser than other games.  You can't actually explain anything and resort to dismissive crap like above in the hopes people applaud your "wit". 

 

Just to make that point all the more clear: you do realise you can find out real quickly what that goat is beyond simply doing the quest as asked... right?  You do realise you can find burnt ruins and bodies to actually show how the war has affected years... right?  Or that some bodies are those of suicides or accidents that add to the depth of the world stating that "hey, not everything is directly related to the story... the world is still turning and things are happening away from just this event"?  Or the temples and notes in the hissing wastes, along with commentary by Bull, that reveal that the dwarven history is much more complex than what the shaperate has officially revealed?  Just a few quick examples of depth that required patience and desire by the player to piece it all together... that you actually haven't countered with anything other than "NUH UH!". 

 

Are you ever going to actually respond with actual points?

[AtreiyaN7]

Stupid fetch quests aren't particularly unique to DA:I. They've been in past ME games, they've been in DA games from everyone's darling DA:O onward, they've been in Ultima games, they've been in The Witcher games, they've been in Fallout games, and they've been in a whole lot of other RPGs, which I feel compelled to point out whenever a game gets singled out with regards to the fetch quest issue.

 

Aside from the fact that this sort of thing isn't unique to DA:I, sure, it would be nice if all RPG games worked on reducing the number of pointless fetch quests that they use. That being said, I'm almost certain they'll have some of them in ME:A. As little love as I have for fetch quests after years and years of doing them in assorted RPGs (I don't particularly enjoy fetch quests with little to no story payoff, FYI), they do serve a purpose in giving exp and gold.

 

I think there's some use for them in the sense that if you're a little bit of exp away from leveling or need a little bit of gold, it's probably not bad to have them as an option - as long as they aren't representative of the majority of the content of course. Fortunately, it's usually the case that you can generally skip pointless fetch quests.

[straykat]

Except I found MGSV to be flat, dull, and shallow.  So we are clearly not operating off the same value system in term of what we get from these games. 

 

 

 

To each their own. DAI is horrible though. I went from unquestioning, non-skeptical fan, CE first day, to this. I won't play their DA games again. It made me not even care about the whole game world.

 

I don't know if your dislike for MGS matches that..

[Beerfish]

The point is, sometimes you can reduce the entire plot of a story and describe it as a "fetch-quest" for whatever is the MacGuffin if you really want to.

 

The difference is that the derogatory term "fetch quest" is about more than simply the act of fetching an item, and more about the way this quest archetype is handled.

According to a definition  that you just layed out for yourself.  A fetch quest is a fetch quest.  A well done fetch quest is a well done fetch quest it is not elevated into something else.

[Beerfish]

Developers who made giant maps before realizing they had to put things in the maps for players to have an enjoyable experience. 

I have to agree with this comment, most of what BioWare was relating before the game gave me some hope that this was not going to be the case to any great extent.  I was visualizing something more along the lines of Baldurs gate type exploration.

 

Still my biggest beef with DAI is not even the existence of fetch or collection quests, it is more that the level designers thought they would be cute and make some of these collectables idiotically tough to get.

[SofaJockey]

So why are you doing it? Those quests aren't mandatory.

 

You are of course quite correct, though there is a sizable amount of players who like to do 'all the stuff'

(heck, achievements and '100% the game' are built around such tendencies).

 

The Exalted Plain is a case in point of poor fetch quests.

There are soldiers who have been cooped up and upon release want you to traipse about and fetch their caches? Why can't they do it??

 

The OP called for not having stupid fetch quests.

 

There will be fetch quests

I hope there are no stupid ones.

[Kabraxal]

To each their own. DAI is horrible though. I went from unquestioning, non-skeptical fan, CE first day, to this. Think about it. 

 

So?  I was the same for MGS and am glad that the series is pretty much dead now given its Konami. 

 

I thought Bioware stumbled with DA2 (still a good game, but definitely not their best) and ME3's endings were a disaster... I was on the fence with Bioware then after previously being one of those free of skepticism or cynicism.  Inquisition released and proved Bioware not only still had it, but listened to a lot of the criticisms from the previous releases.  And then we got the DLC which made a great game even better to me. 

 

So if Bioware gives me more Inquisition, then good.  It's not like if they shift gears this board and others wouldn't complain anyway.  Bioware is criticized no matter what now.  It's understandable why they do not frequent this forum as much as they did.  Bethesda is getting this now too.  Now I see why so many gamers are leaving forums... they just want to have fun instead of criticize everything and be miserable.

[straykat]

So?  I was the same for MGS and am glad that the series is pretty much dead now given its Konami. 

 

I thought Bioware stumbled with DA2 (still a good game, but definitely not their best) and ME3's endings were a disaster... I was on the fence with Bioware then after previously being one of those free of skepticism or cynicism.  Inquisition released and proved Bioware not only still had it, but listened to a lot of the criticisms from the previous releases.  And then we got the DLC which made a great game even better to me. 

 

So if Bioware gives me more Inquisition, then good.  It's not like if they shift gears this board and others wouldn't complain anyway.  Bioware is criticized no matter what now.  It's understandable why they do not frequent this forum as much as they did.  Bethesda is getting this now too.  Now I see why so many gamers are leaving forums... they just want to have fun instead of criticize everything and be miserable.

 

You're glad MGS is dead and one of the oldest gaming companies makes Pachinko? Now you're being silly.

[UpUpAway]

No I don't. I've never asked for that.

I don't know why people think I want that much freedom. That's obviously impossible.

CRPGs did accommodate me. Many years ago. They dropped me in a world and let decide what I wanted to do there. Newer games give me fewer options, but some of them still let me choose among those options.

DAI mostly does what I want. CRPGs from 1985 did exactly what I want.

 

Mostly, it sounds now like you only want an indefinite number of meaningless fetch quests.  In a completely open world with no coherent story... what else is there?

 

(Of course, I expect you'll deny that as well.  Truth is you really seem to just keep bouncing around from pillar to post... just not agreeing with everything... and I for one just can't even try to make any sense about what it is you really want anymore.)

[Sylvius the Mad]

Mostly, it sounds like you only was meaningless fetch quests. In a completely open world with no coherent story... what else is there?

Take DAI's big zones. Remove the fetch quests. What's left?

That's what I want.

[Kabraxal]

You're glad MGS is dead and one of the oldest gaming companies makes Pachinko? Now you're being silly.

 

MGSV was a mess... and I thought the series should have ended after 4, even if 3 and 4 really screwed up the first two Solid games' story. 

 

And I'm not happy Konami is making pachinko machines... just saying that because they are a terrible company not focused on games anymore, MGS is most likely a dead franchise in terms of real gaming. And that one doesn't bother me at all, unlike Silent Hill

[DarkKnightHolmes]

So why are you doing it? Those quests aren't mandatory.

I like completing stuff. Ain't half-arsing the game. Plus, they'll be all over my map. I like my map clean!

[Hiemoth]

I remember gathering all of those ****ing shards and unlocking all of those rooms before I knew how pointless it was. I probably spent an entire weekend on that. I thought it would have some relevance to the plot or at least to Solas. 

 

 

The shard quest was so bizarre. Like I understood at a certain point that there was very little contextual reward in most of the quests in the game and it was just my completionist nature driving me to complete them. That is for example why I somewhat ignored the mural collection, because I understood there really wouldn't be a payoff for it.

 

But the Shard quest. They created a whole map for that side quest, seeded these questions in that map. Made it seem important. Except it really wasn't. I'm not arguing that every side quest should have a cut scene or even an attempt at some context, but the shard quest really, really needed some payoff.

[straykat]

MGSV was a mess... and I thought the series should have ended after 4, even if 3 and 4 really screwed up the first two Solid games' story. 

 

And I'm not happy Konami is making pachinko machines... just saying that because they are a terrible company not focused on games anymore, MGS is most likely a dead franchise in terms of real gaming. And that one doesn't bother me at all, unlike Silent Hill

 

We agree on that. I don't like seeing Silent Hill (seemingly?) gone either..

[Kabraxal]

We agree on that. I don't like seeing Silent Hill (seemingly?) gone either..

 

Don't see how it returns... it was never mainstream in any way and Konami is too focused on the mobile and gambling market to put any effort into a franchise with a low return rate in terms of profit. 

 

I really wish they would just sell off their bigger franchises that cannot survive off console.  Be better for everyone.