It's not that Shepard's unworthy. It's that he cannot understand.
Says Sovereign, and it's based on his low view of Organics. It's not specific to Shepard. Sovereign had disdain for Organic life period. This is why the whole "salvation through destruction" and everything the Catalyst said never fit.
Says Sovereign, and it's based on his low view of Organics. It's not specific to Shepard. Sovereign had disdain for Organic life period. This is why the whole "salvation through destruction" and everything the Catalyst said never fit.
im curious how such a supposed highly evolved, intelligent life form such as Sovereign could hold such disdain for organic life, I always figured it's logic was flawed if it felt contempt as opposed to sympathy for organics.
im curious how such a supposed highly evolved, intelligent life form such as Sovereign could hold such disdain for organic life, I always figured it's logic was flawed if it felt contempt as opposed to sympathy for organics.
Why should he feel sympathy? He sees himself and his kind as superior in every way. He says before him, we are nothing. According to Saren, he looks down on the Geth too. So I thought the Reapers viewed organics as tools, much like how Leviathan talks about the "lesser races" in that DLC.
It's clear that Mass Effect borrows, or steals depending on your viewpoint, from several sources, most notably the Matrix. However, the ending made me think of Descent Freespace. In that, the Shivans appear and wipe out powerful, aggressive races to make sure they don't wipe out younger, weaker races. The story is told in audio log style cutscenes between missions. If they wanted to go the "salvation through destruction" route, they probably should have just gone that way, talking about how organics are constantly fighting and killing one another, rather than trying to do organics vs synthetics.
Why should he feel sympathy? He sees himself and his kind as superior in every way. He says before him, we are nothing. According to Saren, he looks down on the Geth too. So I thought the Reapers viewed organics as tools, much like how Leviathan talks about the "lesser races" in that DLC.
simple comparison,
Humanity undoubtedly sees itself as superior to all other life on Earth but we don't inherently seek to destroy all other living things simple because they aren't like us, this is a simple truth that even animals seem to understand, which is why I said the supposed superior intellect/evolved being that Sovereign claims to represent doesn't make sense and is flawed. Compassion is a basic emotion as well as idea, and we know the reapers can expression such things as they have expressed curiosity, anger and contempt. so how could they be devoid of compassion, (of course it's because plot demands we have a enemy but still).
It's clear that Mass Effect borrows, or steals depending on your viewpoint, from several sources, most notably the Matrix.
Matrix? Bah. Far more Revelation Space and Babylon 5 in it than The Matrix. Wanna talk about "borrowing"?
https://en.wikipedia...evelation_Space
Matrix? Bah. Far more Revelation Space and Babylon 5 in it than The Matrix. Wanna talk about "borrowing"?
What isn't borrowed nowadays 
Well I can see you laughing at Shepard's line but Sovereign made that scene a high point of the entire series. The Reapers were never more intimidating than at that moment.
It's fine if you thought they were intimidating. To me, that scene made the reapers a joke. Everything about them - this pointless bluster took them beyond even a B movie villain. It's just incomprehensibly pathetic. Why is this supposedly nigh immortal AI ****-talking an ant?
It's just overwritten bluster that tries to impress the player with hot air while dodging the need to explain anything in detail. Of course we now know why.
I'm not sure why people saw it as so "Cthulu-like" or "alien," yeah Sovereign says something about how "you can't comprehend!!!" like five times but he is still calling you on Skype and talking in English.
It's also a little odd that people took Sovereign for his word instead of considering that maybe just maybe he was trying intimidate you with bullshit.
The ending, for the lack of a better term, could have used more explanation and extrapolation as to the use of the word "chaos". However, this doesn't justify you berating the other two games simply because he didn't explain it.
So excited for the next Mass Effect installment!
It's just overwritten bluster that tries to impress the player with hot air while dodging the need to explain anything in detail. Of course we now know why.
I'm not sure why people saw it as so "Cthulu-like" or "alien," yeah Sovereign says something about how "you can't comprehend!!!" like five times but he is still calling you on Skype and talking in English.
It's also a little odd that people took Sovereign for his word instead of considering that maybe just maybe he was trying intimidate you with bullshit.
Shepard: You're just a machine, and machines can be broken!
Sovereign: What you say, b****? Come offline say that to my face see what happens.
simple comparison,
Humanity undoubtedly sees itself as superior to all other life on Earth but we don't inherently seek to destroy all other living things simple because they aren't like us, this is a simple truth that even animals seem to understand, which is why I said the supposed superior intellect/evolved being that Sovereign claims to represent doesn't make sense and is flawed. Compassion is a basic emotion as well as idea, and we know the reapers can expression such things as they have expressed curiosity, anger and contempt. so how could they be devoid of compassion, (of course it's because plot demands we have a enemy but still).
Reapers are, or at least were in Mass Effect, machines, not people. There's no reason for them to be like us. Secondly, there are plenty of people who look down on those less powerful than them and lack compassion.
It's fine if you thought they were intimidating. To me, that scene made the reapers a joke. Everything about them - this pointless bluster took them beyond even a B movie villain. It's just incomprehensibly pathetic. Why is this supposedly nigh immortal AI ****-talking an ant?
There's nothing pathetic about it, though you may find it silly I suppose. However your question is a fair one. I always saw it as arrogance and a feeling of invincibility because it had gone through this so many times. However I also expected both Shepard and the current cycle to somehow surprise the Reapers in a "pride comes before the fall" way and for the Reapers to not be quite so powerful as Sovereign claimed, meaning he was just trying to intimidate Shepard there. Even if they made the latter false, and the Reapers really that powerful, the story should have been about the former.
It's just overwritten bluster that tries to impress the player with hot air while dodging the need to explain anything in detail. Of course we now know why.
I'm not sure why people saw it as so "Cthulu-like" or "alien," yeah Sovereign says something about how "you can't comprehend!!!" like five times but he is still calling you on Skype and talking in English.
It's also a little odd that people took Sovereign for his word instead of considering that maybe just maybe he was trying intimidate you with bullshit.
Well the way he cuts off the conversation definitely made me think it was just bluster, but then the attack on the Citadel showed that he really was that powerful and a large number of these things would be unstoppable. Remember that the only reason we beat Sovereign was because he shut down after we destroyed his thrall. Too bad that concept never came up again. In fact you mow down Harbinger's thralls in the very next game.
Hey, first post...ever! 
When I read up on 'ME:4' last year, I'm sure I read that it would be difficult to make a sequel to ME:3 as you would have to choose 'cannon' choices that the player would of made ie saving the council etc
So Andromeda will be"taking place far away from and long after the events of the original trilogy"
Will we get background info on whats happened in the Mass Effect Universe between ME:3 and ME:A. Such as going into the codex to find out what happened after the war? Did the Krogan try and conquer the other races? The council, the Terminus systems, The Geth and the Quarians. So many questions that I would hate to go unanswered.
Thanks
PS Cannot wait for ME:A or the rumoured ME Trilogy Remastered...... 
Will we get background info on whats happened in the Mass Effect Universe between ME:3 and ME:A. Such as going into the codex to find out what happened after the war? Did the Krogan try and conquer the other races? The council, the Terminus systems, The Geth and the Quarians. So many questions that I would hate to go unanswered.
Thanks
PS Cannot wait for ME:A or the rumoured ME Trilogy Remastered......
Welcome to the forums! 
We don't know how much (or little) we'll know about the galaxy we leave behind, but I wouldn't expect detailed codex entries on the Milky Way - if we even get any at all. Expect them to focus completely on Andromeda and you can only be pleasantly surprised
Also, in regards to a remastering: the latest word is that there are currently no plans. Sorry
There's nothing pathetic about it, though you may find it silly I suppose. However your question is a fair one. I always saw it as arrogance and a feeling of invincibility because it had gone through this so many times. However I also expected both Shepard and the current cycle to somehow surprise the Reapers in a "pride comes before the fall" way and for the Reapers to not be quite so powerful as Sovereign claimed, meaning he was just trying to intimidate Shepard there. Even if they made the latter false, and the Reapers really that powerful, the story should have been about the former.
I dont understand why they just don't over turn Casey's ending and open up Andromeda with you picking the ending you selected in ME3 and showing how no matter which one you picked the reapers are destroyed either immediately or over time, and Shepard either being saved (via destroy), or being honored via Control (despite them his new VI ordering all reapers to suicide run into the sun.), or the hybrid synthesis not holding over to the next generation and ultimately fading away entirely and the Reapers become inert and get harvested for parts and melted down for scraps. there, all the loose ends tied up.
Hey, first post...ever!
Welcome, sir.
Hey, first post...ever!
When I read up on 'ME:4' last year, I'm sure I read that it would be difficult to make a sequel to ME:3 as you would have to choose 'cannon' choices that the player would of made ie saving the council etc
So Andromeda will be"taking place far away from and long after the events of the original trilogy"[/size]
Will we get background info on whats happened in the Mass Effect Universe between ME:3 and ME:A. Such as going into the codex to find out what happened after the war? Did the Krogan try and conquer the other races? The council, the Terminus systems, The Geth and the Quarians. So many questions that I would hate to go unanswered.
Thanks
PS Cannot wait for ME:A or the rumoured ME Trilogy Remastered......
It's absolutely pathetic. It's like someone yelling at trees that "humans are beyond their comprehension" before starting to clear cut. It's absolutely ridiculous.
When I'm about to kill a spider I don't rant at it that humans "have no beginning", that we are "legion", that our numbers will "blot out the sky" and then mush it.
It's ridiculous to say that Sovereign would give it any weight at all.
Man, that made me laugh so much.
Sovereign, and all the Reapers really, reminded me of Father from Full Metal Alchemist when he says: "When you notice an insect on the ground, do you stop to consider it a fool? The life of an insect is so beneath you that it would be a waste of your time to even consider judging it. That would be an accurate summation of my feelings towards you humans."
I dont understand why they just don't over turn Casey's ending and open up Andromeda with you picking the ending you selected in ME3 and showing how no matter which one you picked the reapers are destroyed either immediately or over time, and Shepard either being saved (via destroy), or being honored via Control (despite them his new VI ordering all reapers to suicide run into the sun.), or the hybrid synthesis not holding over to the next generation and ultimately fading away entirely and the Reapers become inert and get harvested for parts and melted down for scraps.
Because that's awful? Canonizing Destroy is one thing, saying that all the endings end up working just like Destroy is quite another.
Plus, what do you gain from it when you're just going to Andromeda anyway? The entire point of Andromeda is to start fresh with the added bonus of not risking the wrath of people who would hate seeing their ME3 endings treated the way Animedreamer suggests. It's just drawing a lot of fire for no reason whatsoever (and think of the pacing: you'd have to explain to a new player what these events were, before you jump to a new galaxy where none of it matters anyway).
I dont understand why they just don't over turn Casey's ending and open up Andromeda with you picking the ending you selected in ME3 and showing how no matter which one you picked the reapers are destroyed either immediately or over time, and Shepard either being saved (via destroy), or being honored via Control (despite them his new VI ordering all reapers to suicide run into the sun.), or the hybrid synthesis not holding over to the next generation and ultimately fading away entirely and the Reapers become inert and get harvested for parts and melted down for scraps.
How exactly can you reconcile "Refuse" with an ending where we survive and somehow magically destroy the Reapers afterward?
(And yes, for me Refuse is the canon ending. It's the only one where I can actually stay in character as my canon Shep during the finale).
Because that's awful? Canonizing Destroy is one thing, saying that all the endings end up working just like Destroy is quite another.
How is that awful in comparison to actually having a ending that allows you to stay in the Milky Way galaxy and not potentially have to give up the entire Galaxy you were building and the races there in simply because, "Well some people might like to be hybrid techno-organic lifeforms so we have to build 3 potential games in one in every sequel until the franchise dies." and control is no different as it would require now having to explain why VI Shepard isn't saving the day whenever a new crisis arises, and like i said still requiring you to make 3 Games in one every single sequel that takes place in the Milky Way Galaxy's present and thereafter future.
It doesn't, you are actually saying. "I'm okay with killing this galaxy and them having to do a rewrite or entirely new franchise with the same name and some borrowed ideas but basically in another galaxy, aka Star Wars."
How exactly can you reconcile "Refuse" with an ending where we survive and somehow magically destroy the Reapers afterward?
(And yes, for me Refuse is the canon ending. It's the only one where I can actually stay in character as my canon Shep during the finale).
You'll note that I didn't, because you already have Andromeda, hint hint, its just as likely a ending that leads to Andromeda, also there is no need to reconcile it because everyone is dead. Basically its the same with ME2. If you let Shepard die at the end of ME2 (no one pulls them on to the Normandy) then that was the end of your ME Saga, you now have the option of not playing ME3, Reapers win same outcome, you can now play ME4 and feel that your story is still canon you are now simply playing a entirely new game. If you played ME3 you already are accepting that you aren't playing your original ME2 Shepard who you canon wise let die, if you choose refuse in this one. like I said you have Andromeda no need to reconcile anything.
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