No, one doesn't have to make any argument to make assertions. Either way, they're more than assertions. From Lazarus to the Crucible and now to worm-holing to another galaxy. I'm simply stating I'm not in favor of their use of plot devices in order to run away from established events.
Unless I'm misreading your post, how exactly do you plan to pull this off without a world state? You claimed that Bioware said with ME that "choices would matter".
I'm gona give you a short version because we already spent like 2 months debating it over the ME3 scuttlebutt forum.
So there's an Ark that leaves to Andromeda before the Curcible fires, all species stored on it. Taking into account stuff like rouge Geth, Quarian exiles and potential later cure for the Genophage it doesn't have to address anything from ME3.
I didnt even notice the topic title changed...
Which still makes it horribly wrong. Without tropes of any kind you simply don't have a story, period. What matters is how a trope is handled, and for what creative property its being used for.
Not comparable.
The Lazarus project? Yeah, that's utter nonsense.
So what then, we need even more monumental galactic nonsense to hammer it home, eh?
Mass Effect is utter nonsense from start to finish.
Almost none of the technology shown has any chance of working. Ever. Unless you change all the scientific laws. The relays? Millions of years old relics that each hold energy comparable to a super nova... and they never ever run empty, no matter how much traffic they handle. Oh, and they accelerate ships to far beyond lightspeed... how exactly? There is no warp bubble, there are only mass effect fields which are dark energy manipulated with electricity to generate gravity effects. Somehow. That's like saying a wizard absorbs mana from the environment, stores it in himself and transforms that mana into destructive fire spells. Neither has any basis in reality. It's pure fantasy.
You can easily deconstruct every single piece of technology presented in Mass Effect, almost all violate at least one law of thermodynamics. Especially the weapons.
There are certain tropes we accept, tropes we can suspend our disbelief for. For example... scanning planets from orbit and getting accurate data instantly. Tropes like that are okay.
But magic space Jesus saving the galaxy by spreading his molecules throughout the relay network and transforming everyone into a organic/synthetic melange? Yeah... that makes no sense at all. Not even remotely. Or Control ending, where you have to be disintegrated to be uploaded as AI. Because a dying organism makes for such a good template to copy from...
Seriously, I could drown this thread in examples, so let's summarize: Mass Effect is futuristic fantasy. It is not science-fiction. That's not good or bad, it just is. Personally, I had fun playing the trilogy over and over again (ME3 only twice though). It's similiar to Star Wars, which is mindboggling stupid... and still totally awesome. Because it's fantasy. In space. And not science-fiction.
But magic space Jesus saving the galaxy by spreading his molecules throughout the relay network and transforming everyone into a organic/synthetic melange? Yeah... that makes no sense at all. Not even remotely. Or Control ending, where you have to be disintegrated to be uploaded as AI. Because a dying organism makes for such a good template to copy from...
Hey I thought the same thing.
That's why I'd like it thrown out instead of escaped from via more of the same.
No, one doesn't have to make any argument to make assertions. Either way, they're more than assertions. From Lazarus to the Crucible and now to worm-holing to another galaxy. I'm simply stating I'm not in favor of their use of plot devices in order to run away from established events.
It's you and others who have hostility and make accusations instead of discussing your own take on the use of said tropes/plot devices.
Don't know why anybody thinks this is bait. Anybody who's been on the Mass Effect boards for the past 3 years, knows that's not what I'm about. I simply stated my opinion. Clearly you don't want to state yours on the topic at hand. Maybe seek other threads.
You think wormholes are a stale plot device?
Newsflash: the reason wormholes get thrown around a lot in sci-fi is because actual theoretical physicists (who are all probably vastly more intelligent than any of us here) postulate that wormholes are one of the few ways in which we might actually travel through the universe without taking an ungodly amount of time to get from Point A to Point B.
If you're taking a hard sci-fi approach (or something close to hard sci-fi) as a writer, then you might just pick wormhole-based travel as being a means by which people get around in your story. Even if we could travel at light speed or FTL, it's still not going to be enough to travel between galaxies quickly (unless I'm grossly mistaken here). You might have to travel on generation ships or use cryogenics or figure out a way to warp spacetime itself. So, are you going to start accusing anyone who chooses any of those things of being hacks? Are you going to start accusing physicists of being hacks because they have not - as yet - come up with even newer and more exotic ideas for interstellar travel?
After having basically accused the devs of having a complete dearth of imagination (I still haven't forgotten your original thread title saying that BioWare was continuing its "descent into hack writing"), I'd very much like to see you suggest a plausible fictional technology that would allow us to cross light-years of space in an instant - all while basing your amazing idea on current physics theories/models.
As soon as you can figure out something that doesn't involve total handwaving or outright magic, do let me know. As far as Mass Effect goes, if they actually have employed a wormhole tech in ME:A, it'd probably be more believable than mass relays are - just saying.
No, one doesn't have to make any argument to make assertions.
What is this even I can't brain blblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblbl
I didnt even notice the topic title changed...
Which still makes it horribly wrong. Without tropes of any kind you simply don't have a story, period.
I didn't change it.
No, it still makes sense. The overuse of a trope makes it a cliche. Maybe that should've been the title: "Bioware's Use of Cliches to Disregard Established Lore".....
And yes, a well written story does without cliches just fine, period.
You think wormholes are a stale plot device?
Newsflash: the reason wormholes get thrown around a lot in sci-fi is because actual theoretical physicists (who are all probably vastly more intelligent than any of us here) postulate that wormholes are one of the few ways in which we might actually travel through the universe without taking an ungodly amount of time to get from Point A to Point B.
If you're taking a hard sci-fi approach (or something close to hard sci-fi) as a writer, then you might just pick wormhole-based travel as being a means by which people get around in your story. Even if we could travel at light speed or FTL, it's still not going to be enough to travel between galaxies quickly (unless I'm grossly mistaken here). You might have to travel on generation ships or use cryogenics or figure out a way to warp spacetime itself. So, are you going to start accusing anyone who chooses any of those things of being hacks? Are you going to start accusing physicists of being hacks because they have not - as yet - come up with even newer and more exotic ideas for interstellar travel?
After having basically accused the devs of having a complete dearth of imagination (I still haven't forgotten your original thread title saying that BioWare was continuing its "descent into hack writing"), I'd very much like to see you suggest a plausible fictional technology that would allow us to cross light-years of space in an instant - all while basing your amazing idea on current physics theories/models.
As soon as you can figure out something that doesn't involve total handwaving or outright magic, do let me know. As far as Mass Effect goes, if they actually have employed a wormhole tech in ME:A, it'd probably be more believable than mass relays are - just saying.
Plus, as Interstellar has shown, you can do some of the most visually impressive and absolutely daring things with well-grounded hard sci-fi concepts (which Interstellar toned down a bit to simplify - just read about the original idea for how Gargantuan would work).
You think wormholes are a stale plot device?
As soon as you can figure out something that doesn't involve total handwaving or outright magic, do let me know. As far as Mass Effect goes, if they actually have employed a wormhole tech in ME:A, it'd probably be more believable than mass relays are - just saying.
Wormholes? Maybe not. An "Ark Ship"? Very much so.
From a narrative/plot aspect, I wouldn't leave/runaway from the Milky Way to begin with. So, nothing need be hand-waved on that front seeing as how they have already established a rich setting fertile for plenty of more stories within our own galaxy.
I couldn't care less about how much more realistic the wormholes are than Mass Relays (and I never implied such). But I'd prefer they'd stick to their established lore instead of defaulting to the most commonly used work-around.
Into the brain of any organic sentient. Except not precisely, since you need some mystical mumbo-jumbo to be able to completely understand it.
You guys are trying to delegitimize a concept by using words like mystical mumbo-jumbo. You're not making an argument. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguable from magic. Just because we can't understand it, doesn't mean its mystical mumbo-jumbo. The cipher is basically a language pack that allowed an individual to interpret a message recorded by an alien civilization.
Apples and oranges.
The milky way has the potential to tell a lot of stories, its just going to be a huge waste of that potential if Bioware decide to ditch it for good.
You act like the stories you're envisioning are only possible if they're set in the Milky Way. As if without the same setting the writers are stifled in their creativity and vision. Your concerns and complaints make no logical sense.
You guys are trying to delegitimize a concept by using words like mystical mumbo-jumbo. You're not making an argument. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguable from magic. Just because we can't understand it, doesn't mean its mystical mumbo-jumbo. The cipher is basically a language pack that allowed an individual to interpret a message recorded by an alien civilization.
thank you for repeating the single most overused quote that has ever been used to describe ME
Those are Deus Ex Machinas(DEM). I said there was no way without using that plot device.
Come on. That's just ridiculously unfair arguing.
What, is it supposed to be implied that they'll be preserved until the very end of time?
Quote the opposite.
Today's reveal confirmed Bioware's continued dependency on taking overused sci-fi tropes and implementing them as plot devices in order to handwave/disregard the previously established universe.
1. Find me a single trope in existence that is not "overused". Their being "overused" is what makes them tropes.
2. Find me a single trope in existence that does not function as a plot device.
1. Find me a single trope in existence that is not "overused". Their being "overused" is what makes them tropes.
2. Find me a single trope in existence that does not function as a plot device.
1. so you're agreeing with me and simply questioning how I worded it or what?
2. I find the use of said tropes displays their lack of creativity, seeing as how they're using an ark ship through a wormhole to runaway from the established universe. Make sense?
From a narrative/plot aspect, I wouldn't leave/runaway from the Milky Way to begin with. So, nothing need be hand-waved on that front seeing as how they have already established a rich setting fertile for plenty of more stories within our own galaxy.
Oh, imagine the reactions if the story actually does provide us a reason, and it turns out that the Milky Way races had no choice but to leave because it's either dead or dying rapidly, much like Haestrom's star was.
Oh, imagine the reactions if the story actually does provide us a reason, and it turns out that the Milky Way races had no choice but to leave because it's either dead or dying rapidly, much like Haestrom's star was.
Ha. They bring up the much beloved dark enegy plot anyway.
Oh, imagine the reactions if the story actually does provide us a reason, and it turns out that the Milky Way races had no choice but to leave because it's either dead or dying rapidly, much like Haestrom's star was.
Dark energy wouldn't affect just one galaxy
Ha. They bring up the much beloved dark enegy plot anyway.
That would be worth it just for the **** storm that would inevitably follow.
1. so you're agreeing with me and simply questioning how I worded it or what?
2. I find the use of said tropes displays their lack of creativity, seeing as how they're using an ark ship through a wormhole to runaway from the established universe. Make sense?
1. You imply that Bioware is lazy for using "overused" tropes, when tropes are by definition overused. You're acting as if the use of tropes is somehow inherently negative, when it's not. Your previous statement, on that basis, is daft and free of meaning.
2. Considering that literally every narrative story in the entire history of mankind is built from the same set of established tropes.... You try inventing a new one?
Dark energy wouldn't affect just one galaxy
It doesn't matter. The reaction would be stellar.
1. You imply that Bioware is lazy for using "overused" tropes, when tropes are by definition overused. You're acting as if the use of tropes is somehow inherently negative, when it's not. Your previous statement, on that basis, is daft and free of meaning.
2. Considering that literally every narrative story in the entire history of mankind is built from the same set of established tropes.... You try inventing a new one?
1. Weird. Seems on the other thread that you're not okay with them leaving the Milky Way. Yet here, you're actually defending their use of a cliche (once again) so that they can leave the Milky Way.
2. Sorry, I can't get behind this mentality that you and some others believe. I.e. that every story is a cliche. There are plenty of completely original stories out there.
1. Weird. Seems on the other thread that you're not okay with them leaving the Milky Way. Yet here, you're actually defending their use of a cliche (once again) so that they can leave the Milky Way.
2. Sorry, I can't geg behind this mentality that you and some others believe. I.e. that every story is a cliche. There are plenty of completely original stories out there.
1. My criticisms of the plot so far are that the plot so far sounds idiotic and stupid, not because of "tropes".
2. Cliches and tropes are different terms with different meanings. And no, there hasn't been a totally original story in a very, very, very long time.
How can anyone be arguing about Andromeda's story, plot, anything?
We barely know anything about the game.
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