That would be pretty awesome if shepard was the villain. Definitely somthing different that other franchises haven't done.
MechWarrior 4 did.
The base game Vengeance has you play as a Duke reclaiming his planet from usurpers. The expansion pack Black Knight reveals that your former protagonist has become a power mad dictator and has you play as a mercenary working to overthrow him. Complete with killing your former self and companions.
Obscure example though, and the only one I've got.
Important? You mean like Major Coats was "important" to the story of ME3?
He didn't have a ship to control, anyway.
He is a person. Who that person is, we'll find out on a later date.
He is a person. Who that person is, we'll find out on a later date.
Or not at all.
Or not at all.
Dun Dun Duuuuun
Is anybody else thinking "Apocalypse Now" or is it just me?
Heart of Darkness, Apocalypse Now, Spec Ops: The Line...sure.
Is anybody else thinking "Apocalypse Now" or is it just me?
Beat you to it by a page or so (though I went for the original, Heart of Darkness) 
If he isn't a placeholder, my guess is that could be the PC's superior officer. I'm suspecting that we aren't the N7 character, because we're in training and we haven't been promoted that far yet. I could see the PC has seen some battle, but aren't experienced enough for N7 yet. Anyhow, with the male character that was shown, I could see him being kinda like with Nihilis, only he actually lives past the first mission.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
MechWarrior 4 did.
The base game Vengeance has you play as a Duke reclaiming his planet from usurpers. The expansion pack Black Knight reveals that your former protagonist has become a power mad dictator and has you play as a mercenary working to overthrow him. Complete with killing your former self and companions.
Obscure example though, and the only one I've got.
Same with Diablo.
That's an interesting idea, but I think if there is a superior officer character then they'll be fairly absent in terms of the story.
I think Bioware games struggle with hierarchy and the way it limits player agency though, it's difficult to implement a narrative where players have to follow somebody else's orders while also catering to the people who want absolute freedom in the story.
Even when we did have a superior officer in the ME series (all those Alliance admirals) everyone deferred to Shepard's orders to a fairly ludicrous degree. It was kinda dumb that a Lieutenant-Commander was ordering everyone around by virtue of being ~a chosen one~ or whatever, even if they did have experience fighting Reapers.
Inquisition sidestepped this by having us earn command through story events, but it was fairly unsatisfying at the beginning when companions who had decades of leadership experience were apparently willing to submit to our command for no apparent reason, just because the player has to drive the story in Bioware's games.
I still think the N7 soldier will be somebody under our command, however - the trend in Bioware's recent games and also the marketing survey leak was that players have control and leadership over an entire organisation, and I don't really see that changing in the final version of MEA.
Inquisition sidestepped this by having us earn command through story events, but it was fairly unsatisfying at the beginning when companions who had decades of leadership experience were apparently willing to submit to our command for no apparent reason, just because the player has to drive the story in Bioware's games.
Forgive the snipping and I do agree with you (out of likes, will toss you one when I can,) but the writers had a reason for Leliana, Cullen and Josie deferring to the Inquisitor: They could never agree on anything. I asked that specifically of Cass when I was playing my mage a couple of weeks ago (which I will be returning to by Monday.) It was pretty silly and outright childish considering that Leliana is a veteran of the Blight, Cullen is an experienced (former) Templar; Cass is a long-time Seeker; and Josie has been a diplomat for several years.
I still think the N7 soldier will be somebody under our command, however - the trend in Bioware's recent games and also the marketing survey leak was that players have control and leadership over an entire organisation, and I don't really see that changing in the final version of MEA.
Honestly, I hope not. I do think you're right, but I'd rather be a lower ranking person starting from closer to the bottom. As I've mentioned before, as a BioWare player in the last 18 months, between stopping the Blight and saving the world (Origins,) preventing the end of galactic civilization as we know it (ME series,) and saving both the Fade and Thedas from the apocalypse (DA:I,) I could use a smaller scale story.
ME was never about a smaller story, and I know it. I keep the smaller "hero's journey" requests primarily for the DA forums, since it's probably true that such a story would work better there. However, if they go into any new trilogy, I wish we could start off a little less important this time. Someone not as important, who has to work his/her way up. I agree that the way folks starting deferring to Shepard in ME was over-the-top. I found it the silliest in ME1, before s/he becomes a Spectre. It makes a little more sense after that, but I agree it's overkill.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I'd prefer them breaking from formula..
But when they've done that, a lot of people hate them (see DA2). Not with this particular formula, of course.. I just mean the narrative structure and sense of heroics was different.
Honestly, I hope not. I do think you're right, but I'd rather be a lower ranking person starting from closer to the bottom. As I've mentioned before, as a BioWare player in the last 18 months, between stopping the Blight and saving the world (Origins,) preventing the end of galactic civilization as we know it (ME series,) and saving both the Fade and Thedas from the apocalypse (DA:I,) I could use a smaller scale story.
ME was never about a smaller story, and I know it. I keep the smaller "hero's journey" requests primarily for the DA forums, since it's probably true that such a story would work better there. However, if they go into any new trilogy, I wish we could start off a little less important this time. Someone not as important, who has to work his/her way up. I agree that the way folks starting deferring to Shepard in ME was over-the-top. I found it the silliest in ME1, before s/he becomes a Spectre. It makes a little more sense after that, but I agree it's overkill.
Yeah. I hope we don't start off as someone super important. I'm perfectly happy becoming one over the course of the game, but I'd like to earn it somewhat rather than having it handed to me on a platter. Particularly if ME:A is intended to be the start of a new trilogy (or other length multi-game series), having the first game being about how your character becomes a major player would be much more interesting to me.
Yeah. I hope we don't start off as someone super important. I'm perfectly happy becoming one over the course of the game, but I'd like to earn it somewhat rather than having it handed to me on a platter. Particularly if ME:A is intended to be the start of a new trilogy (or other length multi-game series), having the first game being about how your character becomes a major player would be much more interesting to me.
Right. Being a "Chosen One" is pretty fun, and I have enjoyed my experiences with it. I am a little tired of it though. Rather than just being an unlucky bastard and standing too close to the orb/beacon/have a sudden savior (Duncan,) I'd like to see the PC really dig in and earn that.
You know how we got to pick Shepard's history? Well, rather than just picking something like that and jumping to just before the Life Altering Event happens, show us those kinds of experiences. With a new galaxy and a focus on exploration, it would be a welcome change.
I know that if the leak continues to prove true, this is very unlikely going to happen. It won't disappoint me too much if I'm wrong, but I've got nothing but time to speculate and hope.
Hell, you can even still be the "Chosen One" in this kind of story we want. You just don't have to discover that fact about you until well into the game.
edit - thought of something more to say!:
Perfect Bioware example? Baldur's Gate. For most of the first game, you're nothing special at all, just an an adventurer who's doing a good job of solving the problems in the Sword Coast region. Towards the end of the game, you discover that you are something special, and that you are connected to the big bad in more ways that just wanting revenge on him, but even then, you're special nature isn't essential to your success. Come BG2, and you being special is centre to the plot. The new big bad's actions for a good portion of the game are centered around what makes you special. This idea is then taken even further by ToB.
That's the way I wish BW would approach this kind of story, at least for a significant part of the game/series. With it being about the player discovering things about themselves that make them special, and/or earning their place as leader. Not you being told how you're the last hope to save the country/world/galaxy/universe within the first hour of the game and then everyone blindly following you.
Same with Diablo.
Also Torchlight, now that you mention it.
Honestly, I hope not. I do think you're right, but I'd rather be a lower ranking person starting from closer to the bottom. As I've mentioned before, as a BioWare player in the last 18 months, between stopping the Blight and saving the world (Origins,) preventing the end of galactic civilization as we know it (ME series,) and saving both the Fade and Thedas from the apocalypse (DA:I,) I could use a smaller scale story.
ME was never about a smaller story, and I know it. I keep the smaller "hero's journey" requests primarily for the DA forums, since it's probably true that such a story would work better there. However, if they go into any new trilogy, I wish we could start off a little less important this time. Someone not as important, who has to work his/her way up. I agree that the way folks starting deferring to Shepard in ME was over-the-top. I found it the silliest in ME1, before s/he becomes a Spectre. It makes a little more sense after that, but I agree it's overkill.
To add to that, I don't think high leadership roles play to BioWare's typical game design. It's pretty obvious in Inquisition where the player character rides out with their three best friends and goes around helping local villagers and throwing themselves at demons - and at the same time the game adds next to nothing which actually reflects the massive jump in rank over previous games.
Shepard started out in a good place to make narrative decisions and lead a small squad while keeping the plot going in the right direction with orders from superiors, but things soon escalated.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Someone set me straight earlier about this..
Bioware just can't do this right. You'll just get another Chosen One. "They're just not that good." And even when they are, people hate them for it.
Heartbreaking revelation. lol
ME was never about a smaller story, and I know it.
Not really. ME2 was about romancing alien teammates with saving some colonist in between.
Someone not as important, who has to work his/her way up.
Judging by what we know there will be no time for that. I'm sure we won't start as Andromeda conquerer right away, but transition will be quick. I really hope it will be more smooth than akward initial obedience in DAI.
Someone set me straight earlier about this..
Bioware just can't do this right. You'll just get another Chosen One. "They're just not that good." And even when they are, people hate them for it.
Heartbreaking revelation. lol
I don't think it's a bad story concept. I do enjoy it, and I'm not complaining about that part. I find the character that goes from Hero to Savior of the World/Galaxy in one cutscene a little over done on BioWare's part. If we are a "Chosen One," I'd rather not have it start on such a grand level as ME or DA:I did. Something smaller like Neverwinter Nights or KotoR or even DA2 (which did have a decent story premise, even if the execution is flawed,) is more of what I'm thinking. Sure, you're the "Chosen One," but it takes time and gameplay to show it in a grand manner.
I also wouldn't hate BioWare for it. I mean, if we go from zero to Chosen in one cutscene, then I'll just roll with it. If you're addressing my posts, then I have to wonder where you got that from. Besides, like I mentioned, a smaller scale story would work much better in the DA games, since we go from hero to hero instead of having a set character. I suspect that ME:A is kicking off a new trilogy.
@Ahirman: Um, I think the Reapers and the Collectors were a bigger part of the plot than just saving some colonies. By far. If you're going to use that logic, it's better applied to ME1.
We know...what? We know very little, outside of a leak that still might have the details wrong. We're reading a lot into elements that are largely unconfirmed and could very well be placeholders. Also, even this late in development, certain plot elements could be dropped or changed. Just look it at the "uncomfortable sex in the Fade" sequence for DA:I that was talked about at GaymerX in the summer of last year. That was dropped in the handful of months before release.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
No, I mean when they try something different, they just get kicked in the ass for it.
No, I mean when they try something different, they just get kicked in the ass for it.
That's any game company. "It's needs to change!" "No, you changed too much!" I've heard it about Blizzard and Square for years now. <shrug>
Besides, if you ever want to find the most loudest and unhappiest of a small sample of the fanbase, look no further than the official forums for that company. The BSN is outright warm and shiny compared to some forums, like battle.net
Guest_StreetMagic_*
That's any game company. "It's needs to change!" "No, you changed too much!" I've heard it about Blizzard and Square for years now. <shrug>
Besides, if you ever want to find the most loudest and unhappiest of a small sample of the fanbase, look no further than the official forums for that company.
Yeah, but it's resounding condemnation in this case. Like I said, look at DA2. A lot are glad to see it gone. Even Aaryn Flynn, when accepting awards for DAI, called it a "return to form". As if they sucked before or something.
I liked DA2 myself.
To add to that, I don't think high leadership roles play to BioWare's typical game design. It's pretty obvious in Inquisition where the player character rides out with their three best friends and goes around helping local villagers and throwing themselves at demons - and at the same time the game adds next to nothing which actually reflects the massive jump in rank over previous games.
Shepard started out in a good place to make narrative decisions and lead a small squad while keeping the plot going in the right direction with orders from superiors, but things soon escalated.
I love Inquisition, but I agree here. Origins and DA2 both did a better job of showing how the Warden and Hawke earned their respect. The only difference that I see that could possibly explain the power jump is the ability to open Rifts. Which is silly, considering that the IQ is either going to become a NPC or go missing in the next game.
I agree, but it just ramped up too fast. It's a personal opinion.
Yeah, but it's resounding condemnation in this case. Like I said, look at DA2. A lot are glad to see it gone. Even Aaryn Flynn, when accepting awards for DAI, called it a "return to form". As if they sucked before or something.
I liked DA2 myself.
I liked DA2 quite a bit. The gameplay problems are pretty bad, but I have more completed Hawkes than completed Wardens. I know that's blasphemy around here, but it's true. Both are good games, and I do wish that DA2 wasn't as hated as it largely is. Don't worry my friend, you aren't alone on that one. <hugs>
As far as Aaryn goes, I think they felt like they did a better job with more time, not that DA2 was as terrible as some of the fans think. DA2 was painfully rushed and the devs have made it no secret that they wished they could have given the game a lot more time and care that it needed. I don't think the problems behind DA2 would preclude either (Canadian) BioWare studio from trying a smaller story like Hawke's again. I just don't see it happening in a ME game. They tend to start with colony destruction and scale up quickly from there. 
There are too many possibilities who he could be and I'm glad for it. I just hope it's not too cliché like he's your dad, vanishes under mysterious circumstances and now you're looking for him.
There are too many possibilities who he could be and I'm glad for it. I just hope it's not too cliché like he's your dad, vanishes under mysterious circumstances and now you're looking for him.
My brain went somewhere weird. Now I'm thinking of a plot like the Hangover, only with the ME setting.
"What happens in Andromeda, stays in Andromeda!"
I think I need some coffee.
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