831 réponses à ce sujet

[Valkyrja]

Because, of course, the Reapers are the absolute pinnacle of technology and it's impossible to ever develop a form of technology that's outside their understanding. That's why, as I keep saying, 1940s England could replicate Damascus Steel no problem, right? In-setting, this is why, for example, ME1 didn't have a planet of potentially sentient nanites. And it's absolutely why the plot of ME3 didn't revolve around building an artefact that was designed by multiple generations of organics and that the reapers themselves didn't, couldn't, and never would've built. 
 
There's no way to travel to Andromeda using conventional ME technology. Absolutely. But the idea that this conventional technology somehow exhausts all possible technology is, as I continue to say each time this topic comes up, absolute nonsense. It's not only nonsense from the more abstract perspective of how science works, but it's nonsense in-setting as well.

Sovereign even tells you that a purpose of the Relays and Citadel is to stagnate technological progression and direct it down a path that prevents organics from coming up with things that could take the Reapers by surprise.

[In Exile]

Sovereign even tells you that a purpose of the Relays and Citadel is to stagnate technological progression and direct it down a path that prevents organics from coming up with things that could take the Reapers by surprise.

 

Aww. I was going to save that for my reply. But, yes, the fact that mass relay technology is used in particular ways is meant to funnel races toward a single path of development. The Normandy, for example, was a technological marvel that was one-of-a-kind. No one had though to make a ship that silent - even the reapers had a hard time noticing it until it outed itself. 

[Yggdrasil]

I personally think this was the best option for them to continue the series and pretty brilliant on the devs' part.  It would be too unfair to choose a canon ending, and I like this option better than some secondary story running parallel to Shepard's.  Or some kind of prequel.  I actually thought they would have the story take place in a remote section of the Milky Way, but this puts even more distance between the new games and the previous trilogy.

 

I also personally wish Bioware would scale back the kind of decisions made by the player in their games.  Why can't player agency determine how we get to the ending, who we help or hurt along the way, rather than what the final ending turns out to be?  Why does the player have to determine every monumental decision or turning point shown in the game?  I don't personally find it all that satisfying, and all it really does is tie the hands of the writers and limit future plotlines.  Games are still fun even if the player isn't the center of the universe and the most important person that ever lived.

[Iakus]

Because, of course, the Reapers are the absolute pinnacle of technology and it's impossible to ever develop a form of technology that's outside their understanding. That's why, as I keep saying, 1940s England could replicate Damascus Steel no problem, right? In-setting, this is why, for example, ME1 didn't have a planet of potentially sentient nanites. And it's absolutely why the plot of ME3 didn't revolve around building an artefact that was designed by multiple generations of organics and that the reapers themselves didn't, couldn't, and never would've built. 

 

There's no way to travel to Andromeda using conventional ME technology. Absolutely. But the idea that this conventional technology somehow exhausts all possible technology is, as I continue to say each time this topic comes up, absolute nonsense. It's not only nonsense from the more abstract perspective of how science works, but it's nonsense in-setting as well. 

 

The Reapers have been around for over a billion years.  That's billion with a B.  This is before dinosaurs.  Before anyhting more advanced than algae existed on Earth.  They were harvesting organics back then.  

 

It doesn't matter if the Reapers are the pinnacle of technological advancement.  The idea of surpassing them in anything significant in a time period of something so tiny as a human lifetime, or even several of them, is pretty laughable,  If there was such a simple method, the Reapers would have found it long, long ago/

[In Exile]

The Reapers have been around for over a billion years.  That's billion with a B.  This is before dinosaurs.  Before anyhting more advanced than algae existed on Earth.  They were harvesting organics back then.  

 

It doesn't matter if the Reapers are the pinnacle of technological advancement.  The idea of surpassing them in anything significant in a time period of something so tiny as a human lifetime, or even several of them, is pretty laughable,  If there was such a simple method, the Reapers would have found it long, long ago/

 

The universe has existed for over thirteen billion years. The absurdity that the greatest achievement in technical progress vis-a-vis travel was done by a single race of megalomaniac and genocidal AIs in a remote corner of the universe is absurd.

 

The reapers didn't even manage to solve the problem of their whole "synthesis" thing beyond "turn organic sapients into slushees", and if we're really going to get into it, are responsible for every single synthetic vs. non-synthethic conflict we know, and otherwise operate on insane troll logic.

 

You don't have a leg to stand on here. Sure, humans can't develop this tech. But there's absolutely no reason some other undiscovered precursor race didn't solve this issue long ago, and - since they'd be more advanced that the reapers by necessity - you have an automatic reason for their non-discovery. 

[SubjectZer0]

I just joined this forum yesterday (hi =) ) and I noticed a lot of people are disappointed that Andromeda isn't going to be connected to the original trilogy and the protagonist is a human. I'm honestly happy that were getting a brand new story with brand new characters and a new part of the galaxy. It's gonna keep things interesting and Shepard's story is over and can only be interesting for so long so I think it's great that they've decided to move on with the story. Just like Dragon Age 2 and Inquisition showed there was more to Dragon Age than Grey Wardens and darkspawn, Andromeda is gonna show us there's more to Mass Effect than Shepard and the reapers.

And why are people upset about the protagonist being a human? Yes it would be cool to play as an Asari or a Krogan and make them the star of the story but i's not like Bioware ever said anything about playing as aliens in story mode so I don't know why so many people are so disappointed about that but I'm excited!

[Iakus]

The universe has existed for over thirteen billion years. The absurdity that the greatest achievement in technical progress vis-a-vis travel was done by a single race of megalomaniac and genocidal AIs in a remote corner of the universe is absurd.

 

The reapers didn't even manage to solve the problem of their whole "synthesis" thing beyond "turn organic sapients into slushees", and if we're really going to get into it, are responsible for every single synthetic vs. non-synthethic conflict we know, and otherwise operate on insane troll logic.

 

You don't have a leg to stand on here. Sure, humans can't develop this tech. But there's absolutely no reason some other undiscovered precursor race didn't solve this issue long ago, and - since they'd be more advanced that the reapers by necessity - you have an automatic reason for their non-discovery. 

You don't have to tell me the Reapers operate on insane troll logic.  I absolutely agree with that.

 

But you realize that, aside from the Leviathans, the Reapers are the precursor race.  They slusheed everyone else before they got anywhere near the reapers' level of technology.

[In Exile]

You don't have to tell me the Reapers operate on insane troll logic.  I absolutely agree with that.

 

But you realize that, aside from the Leviathans, the Reapers are the precursor race.  They slusheed everyone else before they got anywhere near the reapers' level of technology.

 

They're a precursor race. But it doesn't take a hand-wave to say that they just missed an abandoned outpost made by an even more advanced precusor race because [reasons]. Again, it didn't occur to me you were thinking about the plot issue here being humanity (or the Council races) building an ark. That would be stupid. I agree. I just don't see the issue with some other relic of a different precursor race - hidden from the reapers in virtue of being more advanced - would be a lore issue. 

[themikefest]

The Reapers have been around for over a billion years.  That's billion with a B.  This is before dinosaurs.  Before anyhting more advanced than algae existed on Earth.  They were harvesting organics back then.  

 

It doesn't matter if the Reapers are the pinnacle of technological advancement.  The idea of surpassing them in anything significant in a time period of something so tiny as a human lifetime, or even several of them, is pretty laughable,  If there was such a simple method, the Reapers would have found it long, long ago/

As was learned in ME3, the reapers are very stupid.

 

Why didn't they shutoff the relay that they came through before heading to Earth? The Normandy would've been stuck in our system. reapers win

 

Why didn't the reapers have some surround the Citadel to prevent any organic ship from leaving or entering?

 

Why didn't the destroyer fire horizontally at Shepard on Turchanka instead of vertically?

 

Why didn't the destroyer fire horizontally at Shepard on Rannoch?

 

Why didn't they post some reapers at the relay to destroy the allied fleets as they entered the system?

 

Why didn't they fire directly at the Crucible?

 

Why didn't they shutoff the beam going to London?

 

So I would say it would be easy for anyone to surpass them. Clearly we organics are more resourceful than was believed.

[Iakus]

As was learned in ME3, the reapers are very stupid.

 

Why didn't they shutoff the relay that they came through before heading to Earth? The Normandy would've been stuck in our system. reapers win

 

Why didn't the reapers have some surround the Citadel to prevent any organic ship from leaving or entering?

 

Why didn't the destroyer fire horizontally at Shepard on Turchanka instead of vertically?

 

Why didn't the destroyer fire horizontally at Shepard on Rannoch?

 

Why didn't they post some reapers at the relay to destroy the allied fleets as they entered the system?

 

Why didn't they fire directly at the Crucible?

 

Why didn't they shutoff the beam going to London?

 

So I would say it would be easy for anyone to surpass them. Clearly we organics are more resourceful then was believed.

No we're getting into which is better:  space magic or contrivance?

[Iakus]

They're a precursor race. But it doesn't take a hand-wave to say that they just missed an abandoned outpost made by an even more advanced precusor race because [reasons]. Again, it didn't occur to me you were thinking about the plot issue here being humanity (or the Council races) building an ark. That would be stupid. I agree. I just don't see the issue with some other relic of a different precursor race - hidden from the reapers in virtue of being more advanced - would be a lore issue. 

A precursor race with that kind of technology would not have been destroyed by the Reapers at all.

 

Heck why would the Reapers allow a race to get that advanced to begin with?

[Yggdrasil]

As far as the technology to get to another galaxy being justified in-game, it could be a simple plot device like a wormhole.  Look at Star Trek Voyager or the Stargate movie.  Or it could be addressed with multigenerational ships like with Firefly.  There's no reason that the protagonist can't be a descendant of the people who left the Milky Way.  Haven't the devs made a point that the action in the new game is chronologically much later than the trilogy?

 

The Reapers themselves had no need to develop new technology.  The technology they had completely served their purposes and was always orders of magnitude higher than anything the fledgling spacefaring civilizations had a chance to develop.  The knowledge of the Crucible was built over multiple cycles.  Plus, look at the Leviathans.  They never evolved culturally beyond "everyone else exists to serve us" despite millions of years of existence.  I think arrogance breeds stagnation.

[o Ventus]

The universe has existed for over thirteen billion years. The absurdity that the greatest achievement in technical progress vis-a-vis travel was done by a single race of megalomaniac and genocidal AIs in a remote corner of the universe is absurd.

 

The reapers didn't even manage to solve the problem of their whole "synthesis" thing beyond "turn organic sapients into slushees", and if we're really going to get into it, are responsible for every single synthetic vs. non-synthethic conflict we know, and otherwise operate on insane troll logic.

 

You don't have a leg to stand on here. Sure, humans can't develop this tech. But there's absolutely no reason some other undiscovered precursor race didn't solve this issue long ago, and - since they'd be more advanced that the reapers by necessity - you have an automatic reason for their non-discovery. 

 

 

They're a precursor race. But it doesn't take a hand-wave to say that they just missed an abandoned outpost made by an even more advanced precusor race because [reasons]. Again, it didn't occur to me you were thinking about the plot issue here being humanity (or the Council races) building an ark. That would be stupid. I agree. I just don't see the issue with some other relic of a different precursor race - hidden from the reapers in virtue of being more advanced - would be a lore issue. 

 

You're really pushing this whole "other ancient aliens" thing, aren't you? I mean, never mind that it sounds like it's ripping off of Halo by this point, but turning around and going "lol, ever bigger and more advanced than the Reapers" just makes the Reapers out to be insignificant.

 

Let's introduce the Flood and the Didact while we're here.

[Valkyrja]

As was learned in ME3, the reapers are very stupid.

 

Why didn't they shutoff the relay that they came through before heading to Earth? The Normandy would've been stuck in our system. reapers win

 

Why didn't the reapers have some surround the Citadel to prevent any organic ship from leaving or entering?

 

Why didn't the destroyer fire horizontally at Shepard on Turchanka instead of vertically?

 

Why didn't the destroyer fire horizontally at Shepard on Rannoch?

 

Why didn't they post some reapers at the relay to destroy the allied fleets as they entered the system?

 

Why didn't they fire directly at the Crucible?

 

Why didn't they shutoff the beam going to London?

 

So I would say it would be easy for anyone to surpass them. Clearly we organics are more resourceful than was believed.

 

Isn't there a massive plothole involving Sovereign, Saren, Citadel access, and the Conduit in ME1 as well?

[themikefest]

No we're getting into which is better:  space magic or contrivance?

The problem with the reapers was they were stuck with doing the same thing over and over again. They were limited by their programming.

[In Exile]

Isn't there a massive plothole involving Sovereign, Saren, Citadel access, and the Conduit in ME1 as well?

 

Yes. The plothole is that the whole find the Conduit plan is idiotic if Saren literally just needed to be in the chamber he always had access to as a Spectre. Whose job description was "do whatever with no oversight". 

[dragonflight288]

I'm not suggesting to carry on Shepard's story.  But why ignore all the established lore/history, just to "start clean"?

 

Think of it like this.  We (or most of us) weren't around for World War I or World War II.  Hell, rarely unless it's like some kind of remembrance day or something, do we even think about the events of those two wars.  Yet, our history is shaped by what happened during those wars.  So just because that story is over and we're writing our own story now, why should it be as though the two WW didn't exist?

 

Acknowledging and building upon what Shepard did doesn't mean you have to actually continue his story.  It just means that the events of that story aren't completely wiped out of memory.  Similar to how a hero today can have their own story and not "continue the story" of some hero from the year 1015, despite the fact you don't have to ignore/forget what the hero in 1015 did.

 

Who says they're throwing everything away or ignoring it? Where has that been stated?

 

All that's been confirmed is that we're leaving the Milky White galaxy, the setting will be far off in the future from the time of the Mass Effect trilogy, we'll have a new Mako and the N7 in the video is not the protagonist. 

 

We may not see Quarians, Geth or Krogan, but that doesn't mean they were thrown away. 

 

It doesn't mean they're kept either.

 

Very little has been confirmed, and there's a lot of assumptions and inferring what that must mean going on on the part of we, the fans. 

[shepskisaac]

Yes. The plothole is that the whole find the Conduit plan is idiotic if Saren literally just needed to be in the chamber he always had access to as a Spectre. Whose job description was "do whatever with no oversight". 

But Sovereign still wanted to find out why the Citadel signal was not working tho right? Hence Saren going to Eden Prime to check what the Protheans may have done.

 

Or am I trying to fill the plothole unconciously lol?

[Il Divo]

You're really pushing this whole "other ancient aliens" thing, aren't you? I mean, never mind that it sounds like it's ripping off of Halo by this point, but turning around and going "lol, ever bigger and more advanced than the Reapers" just makes the Reapers out to be insignificant.

 

Let's introduce the Flood and the Didact while we're here.

 

The Crucible itself did that pretty well, never mind we've been dealing with other ancient aliens via the Protheans, the Reapers, the Leviathans, and this hodge podge of races that helped develop the Crucibles. 

[In Exile]

But Sovereign still wanted to find out why the Citadel signal was not working tho right? Hence Saren going to Eden Prime to check what the Protheans may have done.

 

Or am I trying to fill the plothole unconciously lol?

 

I don't think so. He just needed to get to the Citadel I thought? The whole plot was really butchered in redos.

[dragonflight288]

The Reapers have been around for over a billion years.  That's billion with a B.  This is before dinosaurs.  Before anyhting more advanced than algae existed on Earth.  They were harvesting organics back then.  

 

It doesn't matter if the Reapers are the pinnacle of technological advancement.  The idea of surpassing them in anything significant in a time period of something so tiny as a human lifetime, or even several of them, is pretty laughable,  If there was such a simple method, the Reapers would have found it long, long ago/

 

The reapers aren't a self-advancing civilization making progress to advance their culture, make new medicines, forms of entertainment and adapting new technologies. 

 

They are the result of an artificial intelligence using the technology of its time to preserve organics by harvesting them, salvation through destruction as it were, and they have become very efficient at it, but at their core they are still following their programs, and have left the mass relays so new civilizations will develop on the technological paths they require before they harvest.

 

From what I can gather, this cycle was meant to be harvested before humans made it to the galactic stage, probably back when the Geth first revolted against the Quarians, or maybe even during the Rachni wars if the Queen is telling the truth in ME2 about them being forced to war, but the actions of the prothean survivors on Ilos kept them from pouring in from Dark Space.

 

They aren't the pinnacle of technology. They are the pinnacle they would allow following a very specific tech tree, as it were, and they usually strike when artificial intelligence is coming around and not long after they do and develop on their own like the Geth. 

 

The cycle during Shepard's time is full of anomalies the Reapers haven't dealt with yet, at least to our knowledge. 

 

And even then, it won't that big a deal because there already is an in-game example of new mass relays being built and not by Reapers, and that's the conduit built by the protheans as a prototype backdoor into the Citadel.

 

But the idea of the Reapers being the pinnacle of technology implies that there is nothing bigger beyond even them. And given enough time and resources, there may very well be, especially if there is no Reaper intervention harvesting life just as they start developing AI. 

[dragonflight288]

I don't think so. He just needed to get to the Citadel I thought? The whole plot was really butchered in redos.

 

Sovereign needed to get to the Citadel and override the controls the protheans changed in the Keepers to open up the Citadel and open the mass relay to darkspace where the rest of the Reapers were, and the protheans had built a prototype mass relay that was only one way onto the citadel, and Sovereign needed agents like Saren who could do grunt work where Sovereign couldn't be. 

[In Exile]

The other thing is that sci-fi is all about the mystery of the unknown. If the reapers are the absolute pinnacle, and there's no other new form of technology out there... then the setting loses that mystique about the unknown. 

[In Exile]

Sovereign needed to get to the Citadel and override the controls the protheans changed in the Keepers to open up the Citadel and open the mass relay to darkspace where the rest of the Reapers were, and the protheans had built a prototype mass relay that was only one way onto the citadel, and Sovereign needed agents like Saren who could do grunt work where Sovereign couldn't be. 

Right, but... Saren had access to the Citadel. That was his job. He could just park Sovereign inside the arms (look guys, found a huge ship! come onboard council members, take the tour!), indoctrinate everyone, and then merrily phone reaper home. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I just joined this forum yesterday (hi =) ) and I noticed a lot of people are disappointed that Andromeda isn't going to be connected to the original trilogy and the protagonist is a human. I'm honestly happy that were getting a brand new story with brand new characters and a new part of the galaxy. It's gonna keep things interesting and Shepard's story is over and can only be interesting for so long so I think it's great that they've decided to move on with the story. Just like Dragon Age 2 and Inquisition showed there was more to Dragon Age than Grey Wardens and darkspawn, Andromeda is gonna show us there's more to Mass Effect than Shepard and the reapers.

And why are people upset about the protagonist being a human? Yes it would be cool to play as an Asari or a Krogan and make them the star of the story but i's not like Bioware ever said anything about playing as aliens in story mode so I don't know why so many people are so disappointed about that but I'm excited!

They didn't have to leave the Milky Way to do those new stories. It'd be like if the next Dragon Age took place of a continent other than Thedas. Would there be interesting stories? Absolutely. But it causes a big disconnect for a lot of people. 

 

Bioware actually said they were going to look into race selection for Mass Effect: Andromeda, so many had their hopes up for nearly a year.