No, not really. I mean we all had a laugh about it, but the big debate was over whether the "Let the Council die" ending was total nonsense or not. Mostly it was the usual P/R fights of "Paragons are naive simpletons who can't make the hard choices" and "Renegades are unstable psychos who get off on violence!"
It was a happier time, where everyone got along with no fights, flame wars, or trolls. Before the dark times. Before the Empire.
No, not really. I mean we all had a laugh about it, but the big debate was over whether the "Let the Council die" ending was total nonsense or not. Mostly it was the usual P/R fights of "Paragons are naive simpletons who can't make the hard choices" and "Renegades are unstable psychos who get off on violence!"
Did people also laugh at the amazing writing with Matriarch Benezia?
"DIE" and "they always said there would be a light" lol.
Did people also laugh at the amazing writing with Matriarch Benezia?
"DIE" and "they always said there would be a light" lol.
I don't remember a lot of Benezia topics, but it was a loong time ago.
Did people also laugh at the amazing writing with Matriarch Benezia?
"DIE" and "they always said there would be a light" lol.
Ah, Benezia. The slight stain on possibly one of my favorite Bioware sequences. I'm not a huge ME1 fan, but I did absolutely love Noveria.
But that seems like a fundamental structural problem. If your villains need to hold the idiot ball for the plot to work, maybe the plot needs work.
Did people also laugh at the amazing writing with Matriarch Benezia?
"DIE" and "they always said there would be a light" lol.
And who can forget "Goodnight my Little Wing."
Ah, Benezia. The slight stain on possibly one of my favorite Bioware sequences. I'm not a huge ME1 fan, but I did absolutely love Noveria.
Canonize destory, other states are nonimportable
Fresh slate without deciding to abandon the galaxy
If they make it like 200 years in the future any ending can be canon except the ending which was added in the extended cut dlc where you chose to fight back (and lose). Of course symbiosis would be hard to implement, but they could just add shiny eyes and other implants to all the characters if you import a symbiosis save.
Think about it, you are not in milky way anymore, so it doesn't really matter which of the 3 endings you picked if its in a distant future.
Noveria's great. I'd play a standalone game based on that location.
Everything about Benezia and her boss battle was, uh, not.
They said there'd be a….bright light.
They still can use ME3 ending. Andromeda will be years after ME3... Bioware still can use Destroy and Control ending, just make dialogues and cutscenes. For example, sometime in the game, you have to build a ship, if you have chosen Control, reapers helps, if was destroy, other races help. Something like this would be awesome and its NOT impossible to make, its pretty viable. Synthesis is the problem.
New tech, new stories, new aliens, new locations...none of that bothers me. What would bother me is if they have humans using mass effect technology, and have (even if as relics) technology/equipment from the original trilogy unexplained. For me, personally, utter refusal to acknowledge or a hand wave is sloppy writing. Bioware wrote themselves into a corner by writing endings designed to ignore continuity consequences.
They should just canonize an ending and be done with it. The reapers were destroyed, gone, centuries ago in the (insert name of war here). What would bug me is to be using technology that dates back to being based off reaper technology, and the game never acknowledge that.
EXACTLY, thank you!
Actually the extended cut showed things like Tuchanka being rebuilt and Jake training her her students and the Quarians rebuilding their world so it's pretty clear everyone made it home.
Except that's silly because HOW?! I get that there'd be civilians left behind who can try to rebuild, but that still leaves everyone stranded wherever they were at the time.
The EC scenes were borderline nonsensical.
I was using the example of it being set in the same universe.
And Andromeda will have nothing to do with Shepard or ME3, it's is the very far future and in a separate galaxy, but my point was that if it follows the same rules as the Mass Effect universe we have come to know and love, with mass effect fields and drives, biotics, then it is a mass effect game. My post was in response to someone saying if it's not in the Milky Way and doesn't incorporate Shepard or the endings, it's not a Mass Effect game.
It is a Mass Effect game, but it's a separate story from what we've already been given.
And next to nothing is known about it other than it's in the far future, another galaxy, and the character in the trailer is not the protagonist. That's it.
But it's set in the same universe and thus has to follow the same rules set by the trilogy in regards to how things work.
After that, it'll be the quality of the writing that makes it a good game or not. KOTOR is a Star Wars game, but it's not even related to the movies or the books except that it follows the same rules as the universe. There are Jedi and Sith, the Force, and many of the same species, This'll be a Mass Effect game, but it will only be related to the trilogy in that it's the same universe, and thus open to the same rules as that universe.
I have no doubt that it's for marketing, but that does not take away that it's a Mass Effect game.
It is what it is. That was my entire point. I'm not commenting on whether it'll be good or bad, not enough intel.
But the writing is ALREADY bad, just from what little is shown in the trailer, was my point. Just the fact that they are using the EXACT same technology as from the original trilogy, is shooting themselves in the foot.
No. Mass Effect is, to me, a wonderful set of games with a subpar ending at the end with a strong protagonist that I came to recognize as unique to me based on the playthrough I went through, a cast of wonderful characters I came to care about, and a galaxy I loved to explore.
But the rules of the mass effect universe does mean it's impossible to step away from those characters I have grown close to. This upcoming game is going to be set in the far future, so I know I won't be seeing Garrus, Tali or Shepard again, and there's nothing wrong with that. There'll be a new and improved Mako, which I approve of, I won't be on the Normandy, which just means I'll get to enjoy a new ship. There will be new characters that I will either grow to love or hate, and a new story for me to judge based on the quality of the writing and how well it works in the Mass Effect universe.
If Bioware wants to expand on the Mass Effect universe, I have no problem with that. New characters, a new protagonist, and new places to explore. What will make it a Mass Effect game or not is its ability to stay within the rules of the Mass Effect universe, with the mass effect drives and fields, use of dark energy in biotics, element zero.
This game will be an expansion of what's already there, and one that won't have to deal with the baggage except what we the gamers bring with us, much like KOTOR was an expansion of the Star Wars universe, even though we never met Yoda, a Skywalker, flew the Millennium Falcon or that stuff, but it explored the planets, kept to the rules set by Star Wars in how its universe works, and because it separated itself from the movies, it was open to a whole new level of potential content that Bioware and LucasArts could work with.
I'm not saying it's a good idea or a bad idea, but one I can see the logic behind after the fiasco of the ending of ME3, and I'm willing to wait for more information before I pass judgment on whether it'll work or not.
Except Andromeda won't be any of that. It won't be expanding, because its an entirely different galaxy. Which raises the question of why we are seeing Milky Way races and tech, in which case, why bother moving the setting to Andromeda when you are going to treat it the same as Milky Way anyway?
Sovereign even tells you that a purpose of the Relays and Citadel is to stagnate technological progression and direct it down a path that prevents organics from coming up with things that could take the Reapers by surprise.
Which, again, raises the question of why technology is STILL stagnant, 800 years in a separate galaxy.
In theory. But if I remember right: he doesn't spend ME1 trying to discover why the signal didn't work. He and Saren spend it trying to find the Conduit, which is simply a back door to get Sovereign and the fleet onto the Citadel. That's what raises the question of why Saren doesn't just activate the Citadel Relay himself.
I think they were just being thorough by retracing the Protheans did to see EXACTLY how they sabotaged it. Wouldn't do much good to walk into the control room if they don't even know what's wrong. The whole point is Sovereign didn't KNOW what was wrong. That's why he resorted to personally attacking and just saying "Screw it" and doing things manually.
The whole deal is that the Prothean scientists made it to the control room of the citadel (I think the same room you find the Catalyst in 3), and sabotaged the Keepers to not send the signal. When you catch up with Saren, he's in the middle of trying to get INTO that control room, I believe. That and before that, he was investigating Prothean beacons to see what and how the protheans did to sabotage the citadel signal. It wasn't stupid because he was doing this as a spectre, and would have been able to simply stroll in when the time came. the kink in the plan was Tali saving some geth audio files (And the dock worker who saw Saren) which wasn't believed to be possible, which led to him losing his SPECTRE status. It was actually a solid plan before Tali threw a wrench in things.
Because we wouldn't have a game then.
Just like why the Reaper fleet didn't launch a surprise attack on the Citadel first and shut down the Relay Network, ensuring their victory in Mass Effect 3.
Reapers seem to be overly cautious against anything that shows resistance. Harbinger's attack on the Citadel may have spooked them from targeting it first. That OR they deliberately left it alone as a trap to funnel organic survivors to it for processing (Which seems to be the case, judging by the corpse piles at the end)
Or another option...
One of the Reaper's biggest flaws, is the inability to adapt. COuld be argued to be their entire reason for existing. They tend to ignore everything that's not an immediate threat, so they targeted the humans first, rather than the Citadel as usual, because Shepard and the Alliance proved to be a viable threat to them, the first ever (Ignoring whatever took out the derelict reaper)
You know, while hyped that we're getting another Mass Effect game (possibly another trilogy), I have to wonder why Andromeda or indeed any other galaxy whatsoever was chosen in the first place.
Less than 1% of the galaxy was explored by the events of ME3, so there's a tonne of exploration elements and material that would still be allowed even within the confines of the Milky Way, unless the idea is that Andromeda is sufficiently away to preclude any sizeable 'back up' from arriving in case something serious is found, in case any lasting alliances persist post-Reaper war.
Personally, canonizing one of the 3 endings of ME3 would be a good idea imo, or at least have a sense of 'origins' that evolves from one of the paths or whatever (although I should imagine destroying the Reapers would be the canon start if Bioware chose one). Alternatively, they could have one that blends elements of the 3 endings like DE:MD is apparently doing.
This is part of the problem with it, yes. There's no real reason to hop galaxies. The milky way is HUGE and largely unexplored.
Not sure why the game should acknowledge that mass effect technology is based on reaper tech without some sort of plot relevance. If the reapers are gone, there's no point in mentioning it.
"Hey, did you know this stuff is based on reaper technology?"
"Yeah, I learned that in third grade, now shut up about it already."
Not sure why the game should acknowledge that mass effect technology is based on reaper tech without some sort of plot relevance. If the reapers are gone, there's no point in mentioning it.
"Hey, did you know this stuff is based on reaper technology?"
"Yeah, I learned that in third grade, now shut up about it already."
Could refer to it in a Codex entry.
If they make it like 200 years in the future any ending can be canon except the ending which was added in the extended cut dlc where you chose to fight back (and lose). Of course symbiosis would be hard to implement, but they could just add shiny eyes and other implants to all the characters if you import a symbiosis save.
Think about it, you are not in milky way anymore, so it doesn't really matter which of the 3 endings you picked if its in a distant future.
The destroy ending just seems the easiest for the writers to use, while at the same time giving (most) fans a satisfying heroic ending to the Shepard trilogy. With destroy, the writers for the new game(s) don't even have to worry about the Reapers or long-lasting effects of what happened afterwards. With that dumb synthesis ending, the writers would have to somehow incorporate into the story why people have glowing green eyes, or why everyone is half Princess Leia and half C-3PO.
The destroy ending just seems the easiest for the writers to use, while at the same time giving (most) fans a satisfying heroic ending to the Shepard trilogy. With destroy, the writers for the new game(s) don't even have to worry about the Reapers or long-lasting effects of what happened afterwards. With that dumb synthesis ending, the writers would have to somehow incorporate into the story why people have glowing green eyes, or why everyone is half Princess Leia and half C-3PO.
Yes they do. An entire species can be wiped out in Destroy with the Geth being caught in the blast. Nothing is more lost-lasting than an extinction.
Silvair, I think you've jumped to conclusions about what the game will and will not be like.
Try to keep an open mind and not write this off mere moments after it's been announced.
There is a lot of that going on. Just because they could have written a story set in the Milky Way doesn't mean they cannot tell a story set in the Andromeda system either. Without knowing why they are there, the best you can do is speculate. And as most of the speculation seems to result in more speculation, that only see's a negative consequence, then people should perhaps have some patience?
There is no reason to assume that the original games and their impact will be ignored. There is no reason to assume that intergalactic travel couldn't be feasible. Our limited understanding of the ME universe may suggest it isn't possible, but let's wait and see how they explain it. There is no guarantee that this is the proposed Space Ark game, there could be other reasons for the venture. If you have made your mind up that this game isn't for you then nothing is going to win you over. If you are keeping an open mind and think that the game is pants when it launches then I'll apologise for trying to remain positive at this time.
Yes they do. An entire species can be wiped out in Destroy with the Geth being caught in the blast. Nothing is more lost-lasting than an extinction.
I would imagine the geth wouldn't be showing up in andromeda. No reason to worry about them being extinct.
I think they were just being thorough by retracing the Protheans did to see EXACTLY how they sabotaged it. Wouldn't do much good to walk into the control room if they don't even know what's wrong. The whole point is Sovereign didn't KNOW what was wrong. That's why he resorted to personally attacking and just saying "Screw it" and doing things manually.
The whole deal is that the Prothean scientists made it to the control room of the citadel (I think the same room you find the Catalyst in 3), and sabotaged the Keepers to not send the signal. When you catch up with Saren, he's in the middle of trying to get INTO that control room, I believe. That and before that, he was investigating Prothean beacons to see what and how the protheans did to sabotage the citadel signal. It wasn't stupid because he was doing this as a spectre, and would have been able to simply stroll in when the time came. the kink in the plan was Tali saving some geth audio files (And the dock worker who saw Saren) which wasn't believed to be possible, which led to him losing his SPECTRE status. It was actually a solid plan before Tali threw a wrench in things.
That's a huge bit of speculation regarding the Protheans reaching the Catalyst. We'd need more data to support it, especially since no mention is made of it by the Catalyst. Actually, I believe it states that Shepard is the first Organic to reach him.
Also when you catch up with Saren, he's not trying to get into the Control Room. He states that Shepard is too late and in a few moments Sovereign will have control of the entire station allowing him to open up the Citadel Relay.
Not sure why the game should acknowledge that mass effect technology is based on reaper tech without some sort of plot relevance. If the reapers are gone, there's no point in mentioning it.
"Hey, did you know this stuff is based on reaper technology?"
"Yeah, I learned that in third grade, now shut up about it already."
.... BIOWARE PLEASE LET THE OPENING SEQUENCE INVOLVE OUR PROTAGONIST LEARNING ABOUT SHEP AND THE REAPERS IN THIRD GRADE!
Might be difficult tho.... "And then Commander Shepard may or may not have killed the reapers using a blue attack or a red attack which resulted in a blue, red or green explosion.... the details are vague, let's sum it up as: some weird-ass **** happened in the milky way long ago."
That said:
I see some solutions regarding space travel between galaxies, but I still have one important, unanswered issue: doesn't the synthesis ending affect all sentient beings in the milky way? And during the time of the reaper invasion every sentient being, including humans, was centered in the milky way as they couldn't travel outside the milky way then. So people in Andromeda should've been affected as well since they're descendants from the people who went through the solution to the reaper invasion, right? So shouldn't the species in Andromeda have green glowing eyes, green circuits and be half organic, half synthetic?
If they canonize the ending from ME3 it kind of removes the choices in that particular trilogy from the player's hands. IE if you choose synthesis and they canonize destroy, what did your choices matter from that series? Let's just say that the journey to Andromeda was initiated before the Reaper War ended, basically a secondary plan to save certain species if the Reapers won the war. ME:A would still be tied to Mass Effect events but removed from the endings.
Why not start with a clean slate? You have a new protagonist, a new crew, probably new enemies, new planets to explore. You have to remember if Bioware canonizes an ending from ME3 then your choices in that series didn't mean a damn thing.
If they canonize the ending from ME3 it kind of removes the choices in that particular trilogy from the player's hands. IE if you choose synthesis and they canonize destroy, what did your choices matter from that series? Let's just say that the journey to Andromeda was initiated before the Reaper War ended, basically a secondary plan to save certain species if the Reapers won the war. ME:A would still be tied to Mass Effect events but removed from the endings.
Why not start with a clean slate? You have a new protagonist, a new crew, probably new enemies, new planets to explore. You have to remember if Bioware canonizes an ending from ME3 then your choices in that series didn't mean a damn thing.
We can't "Just say" anything happened, because we haven't written or seen the story. I can accept any backstory for how they got there, so long as it's consistent and doesn't ignore the lore's history.
@Tevix: I agree with you, but I think the better canon ending would be... "The Reapers did their job and cleansed the Milky Way". BUT - thanks to Shepard's efforts... these people escaped to the Andromeda Galaxy.
This galaxy can even have an "Andromeda Citadel" to monitor that galaxy... only, the refugees know what it is.
Heck, maybe they even stop the pre-existing Andromedian races before they use this Citadel... and the Reapers never show even though they are "out there".
We can't "Just say" anything happened, because we haven't written or seen the story. I can accept any backstory for how they got there, so long as it's consistent and doesn't ignore the lore's history.
If the rumbles about this being (or at least starting) concurrently with ME3 are true, then none of that silly stuff has even happened yet.
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