831 réponses à ce sujet

[von uber]

Just think - if they hadn't done a rgb ending but had your choices be reflected in how the ending played out (like a bigger suicide mission - after all its absurd that shep can basically wipe out entire races like the toaster faction ), then none of this would be an issue.

The crucible functioning purely as a reaper kill switch would have actually not been much different from what we got and yet would have at least left the door ajar for future money making.

That's why I agree with the sentiment that they wanted to end the mass effect series there and then, but too much money is involved.

A bit like the terminator series of films.

[dreamgazer]

Just think - if they hadn't done a rgb ending but had your choices be reflected in how the ending played out (like a bigger suicide mission - after all its absurd that shep can basically wipe out entire races like the toaster faction ), then none of this would be an issue.

Any hint of plot divergence whatsoever in the ending would have been an issue, something both lead writers for the series had planned. They'd still have to figure out what to do with the other variables created throughout the trilogy, too.

[von uber]

Yes I agree, but by making most of them personal rather than galactic wide it would be less of an issue.

But then that requires forward planning and a coherent idea of where they were going with it all, which does not appear to have been the case.

[DarthSliver]

Just think - if they hadn't done a rgb ending but had your choices be reflected in how the ending played out (like a bigger suicide mission - after all its absurd that shep can basically wipe out entire races like the toaster faction ), then none of this would be an issue.

The crucible functioning purely as a reaper kill switch would have actually not been much different from what we got and yet would have at least left the door ajar for future money making.

That's why I agree with the sentiment that they wanted to end the mass effect series there and then, but too much money is involved.

A bit like the terminator series of films.

 

This is the most logical arguement I seen for ME3 endings since ME3 ending debate. Of course I do favor the Indoctrination Theory, because that one could easily explain all the nonsense we saw in the end too lol. 

[DFMelancholine]

I think the thing people are most angry about isn't the fact that Bioware is sidestepping the terrible endings. They're angry because if Bioware hadn't messed up the endings of ME3 so badly and left the lore and universe in such a broken state, they wouldn't be forced to throw it all out and start over.

 

It's not the fact that they've moved on, it's the fact that it was the only option they had because they forced themselves into that position through their incompetent handling of the endings.

 

Had they not screwed up so badly, they could have moved on in a much more organic way, rather than the way they are now which feels like both a hail Mary and a copout.

 

The problem boils down to this: They didn't go to Andromeda because it was an exciting choice. They aren't going there because it makes sense or because it's the next logical step. They aren't going there because there was nothing left to explore in the Milky Way, physically or narratively. No, they went there because they broke the Milky Way as a setting so badly that they were screwed, so if they were going to continue the series, they HAD to move to a new galaxy. It's not organic. It feels forced and desperate, because that's exactly what it is. Grasping at straws and trying to make gold out of it. They didn't go there because it was an exciting choice, they went there because it was the ONLY choice.

 

If that doesn't encapsulate the scale of their blunder, nothing does.

THIS^^^

I said it earlier.Going to Andromeda in no way seems  and feels like an organic and natural way of progressing the narrative.It feels forced.

I bet that if the ending of Mass Effect 3 was better written.We wouldn't be having any issues now.

Better being two outcomes:

1) Shepard&Co story is over but in a satisfying way that makes sense.

2)Shepard&Co story is continuing.

 

What I am trying to say is that, the problem of fans moving on doesn't really lie with the fact that Shepard is over.That is not the problem and that is not really why people refuse to let go.People, myself included, refuse to let go because Shepard's story end does't make much sense and provides no real closure.

I am ok with Shep dying, it's just that the whole thing felt pointless.

(I am one of those fans who discovered Mass Effect series way after the ending even happened so I wasn't around during the outrage, the wound of ME3 is recent for me , that is another reason I can't let go, because I didn't have 3 years to get over it and heal)

 

It frees them to tell the story they want to tell within the idea of Mass Effect.

 

Lazy? Easy way out? Why make it harder than it needs to be? Should people walk on their hands to the bathroom in the mornings or shave using a Bowie Knife?

 

Shepard is done, there is a new hero who has a different mission and may not care about what happened in the past. Not everyone cares about history.

 

Sure, they could have made ME4, acknowledging all the previous choices and such, but why walk on eggshells during the whole development process when they can run free somewhere else?

 

More immersion? Sure, I can get that, but it's not like they are dismissing whatever history unfolded in the previous trilogy, they are just moving on and there is no need to bring up history... unless there is some history buff in the crew.

Shepard is done because "artistic integrity"...because they wanted the story done.Doesn't mean the story could have not been able to continue.

 

Endings of the Original Trilogy I believe will eventually have to be dealt with, I think people would much rather Bioware to canonize an ending and more forward then to sweep it under the rug. The METrilogy skeleton will still be sitting there in the closet to forever haunt Andromeda. I can understand them doing a soft reboot and not touching that skeleton now but it will eventually need to be touched. I don't believe they should've just left the Milky Way for Andromeda so I do hope there is a good story for how we got to Andromeda.

My thoughts there is maybe the people that made it to Andromeda were actually trying to go to an unexplored part of the Milky Way to hide from the Reapers and instead found a wormhole that led somewhere else as their instruments couldn't exactly read where it left but pointed to the direction they intended to go, away from the Reapers lol. But thats more or less of my crazy theory for if the Ark thing if it is real because we know in the Trilogy our tech wasn't that good. 

I kinda think this is how the story will go.It is a way easier cop out the having to write and explain as to how technologically the Milky Way races managed to go to another galaxy. 

 

It removed Shepard from the position where a lot of those choices would have had a greater impact.  Human Councilor, LI, Virmire Survivor, status of the Council, Wrex's situation, Garrus' situation etc.  As a Spectre and commander of the SR-1, these things would have had far greater consequences unless something was done to "shake things up"

 

And so Shepard got spaced. Granted it didn't have to be something quite so drastic (and it almost certainly would have worked better it it had been something less button-awesome) but Shepard could not remain in his/her current situation with so many points of departure. 

 

And in ME2 with a dozen companions that could be alive or dead (or even never recruited), with their personal issues solved or not, it gets even worse.

 

This is why Dragon Age is doing it better:  one story, one hero, keep moving around (though at least they're staying on the same continent so far) It's still not sustainable, but with less baggage to carry over each game it should last longer.

Dragon Age is indeed doing it better for what it is. At least we knew from the beginning that , new game=new protagonist=new story, no sequels is the model of DA.

But the DA model is not and was never the model of ME.I don't know how I will  feel about Andromeda, as I said earlier, I might love this game a lot BUT to me it will never reach the height of the original trilogy.As someone else said a few pages back.The characters of the new game/trilogy will forever be known and "the other guys"..."the other turian"..."that other krogan" etc.

 

I think they will be doing this moving on with Mass Effect series, sticking to Shepard wasn't completely bad it just how they went about it. Witcher series sticks to Geralt and I didn't see them run into that issue there lol

I will never understand why people find it so bad if they stuck with Shepard.The story from a narrative perspective wasn't exhausted and done.I believe the franchise would be able to handle one more Shepard game, a quadrilogy.Now if they kept making sequels upon sequels of meaningless crap then we would have the right to complain.

Look at Halo...Halo is Master Chief and Master Chiel IS Halo.Yes, we had spin offs with other protagonists and those games did great as well but the main series cannot just continue without its iconic protagonist.So why couldn't Mass Effect continue Shepard's story while producing spin-offs too?

Someone will argue, Geralt and John 117 are fixed protagonists while Shepard can be anyone, still though Shepard is iconic and will forever be iconic.

[AlanC9]

Yes I agree, but by making most of them personal rather than galactic wide it would be less of an issue.

Hadn't that ship sailed after Rannoch? Although, really, it sailed after Noveria, unless we were always going to stay close enough in time to ME1 that the rachni wouldn't be important.

[Avilan II]

I don't mourn Shepard. I am fine with the death of her*. 

I just find the ending lacking in skill, not idea.

 

Other than that, yes I agree. Andromeda does not feel like a natural continuation of the franchise, but a cop out because they couldn't figure out how to continue in the established world we love because of writing choices.

 

*I hear rumors that some people play a male Shepard, for some odd reason.

[MegaIllusiveMan]

They could have just made it a different kind of threat. 

 

1-Maybe make it more political. 

 

2-Maybe make the story more personal (someone's out to discredit N7 and you have to find out why). 

 

3-Maybe focus more on the exploration aspect. 

 

4-There are lots of ways they could have carried on in the Milky Way without having to come up with a new threat that's greater than the Reaper threat.

 

Well, Humans do have a larger role now in Galactic Society because of Shepard. But then? I don't think any race or anyone intelligent enough would be going against the Council again (Like Batarians in ME:Galaxy). And how would that work? Punch some diplomats, kill their mercenaries, Mission complete...

 -Plus, why would anyone want to turn against each other since "all of them together defeated the Reapers" ?

 

2-Again, why? N7 is a symbol of respect(again because of Shepard) in Post-ME Reaper War Universe.

 

3-The Devs said themselves. They made ME Trilogy Galaxy like it was already 100% explored with all those Clusters and Systems uncovered from Horizon to Illium and back to Earth. They are even working on a "minor" scale Map to sense that there is much yet left to explore

 

4-And IDK... Seeing as the Reapers were the only enemies in the whole trilogy, and all the havoc and Indocrination and bla bla, you can't really imagine anything worse than the Reapers, except for something that would look like the Reapers with the same reasons of the Reapers and thus, it would become Reaper Clones.

[von uber]

Hadn't that ship sailed after Rannoch? Although, really, it sailed after Noveria, unless we were always going to stay close enough in time to ME1 that the rachni wouldn't be important.

Yes, hence my point about such decisions being a power ****** fantasy, and a really bad design decision.

[Steelcan]

I don't mourn Shepard. I am fine with the death of her*. 

I just find the ending lacking in skill, not idea.

 

Other than that, yes I agree. Andromeda does not feel like a natural continuation of the franchise, but a cop out because they couldn't figure out how to continue in the established world we love because of writing choices.

 

*I hear rumors that some people play a male Shepard, for some odd reason.

cause Meer > Hale

 

other than that you're right

[Silvair]

 

 Maybe I've misunderstood that. Apologies

 

See, the thing is did Bioware already know or planned for a ME: Andromeda? Or you guys didn't see it coming? Because after the Reaper War, with Shep's Death, there is nothing left to do.

Stopping you right there.  This is incorrect.

 

They had fleshed out multiple races, significant events, ongoing dangers and criminal organizations.  Not every adventure has to be against an apocalyptic threat.

There's literally an entire GALAXY of stuff to do.  Which is why I'm so mad about Andromeda.

It'd be like if your parents took you to Disneyland for the first time, but only let you see Main Street and Adventure Land, then once you've seen everything there, just left the park and went to a new one under construction, instead of continuing on to see Tomorrow Land,  Frontier Land, Fantasy Land, Toontown, and California Adventure, but went out of your way to tell you all that stuff was there, anyway.

 

 

They still could've if they wanted to.  Pick a path and run with it, or jump ahead in the future into a unified world-state. They're choosing not to do that. 

Or just have it take place BEFORE Me3.

 

 

For me, the bolded isn't an issue because I don't see why the writers have to limit themselves to making every threat "THE GREATEST THREAT EVAH!".

 

They didn't have to top the Reapers.  They could have just made it a different kind of threat.  Maybe make it more political.  Maybe make the story more personal (someone's out to discredit N7 and you have to find out why).  Maybe focus more on the exploration aspect.  There are lots of ways they could have carried on in the Milky Way without having to come up with a new threat that's greater than the Reaper threat.

Exactly.

 

 

[Silvair]

cause Meer > Hale

 

other than that you're right

This too.

Can't stand Hale's voice acting (She's so monotone, and sounds utterly BORED reading her lines), or the derpy faces of femsheps, or the hideous soggy woodchip looking female hairstyles.

[Suron]

Because they are butthurt about it.

Oh stop with that nonsense.  It has nothing to do with the ending of ME3.  It has EVERYTHING to do with BioWare taking the cowardly way out by ditching the MWay just so they don't have to try and salvage the **** endings they gave us.

 

I'm fine with Shepard gone.  I'd prefer they canonized an ending (even if it wasn't MY choice.) than ditch our galaxy entirely just because they wrote themselves into oblivion but still want to make more ME so they can milk it.

 

I'd be willing to bet there was no plan for an ME4...till EA stepped in and wanted the franchise to continue....so BioWare takes the fail way out and ditches our galaxy.

 

I'm looking forward to ME:A I'm sure I'll still love it.  But that doesn't change facts.  Ditching the Milky Way because of their own crappy writing is a downright ******-poor way to continue the franchise.

[Suron]

Far as canonizing an ending, really the ONLY one I couldn't live with is synthesis.  For exactly the same reasons already brought up in this thread.  It's absolute rubbish and some of the worst writing I've seen.  Absolute nonsense.

 

But as I said.  That's not the issue.  People are mainly mad because BioWare doesn't have the gonads to fix their endings and stay in the Milky Way.  Which is where Mass Effect should stay.  It just adds more disconnect to the setting and characters as we're not even in our own Galaxy anymore.  I mean did we really need to go Star Wars with ME? A Long Long Time Ahead, in a Galaxy (only kinda) far away.

[Avilan II]

This too.

Can't stand Hale's voice acting (She's so monotone, and sounds utterly BORED reading her lines).

 

Funny thing is that those who prefer fem!shep has the exact same argument but the other way around. Meer is just so... BORING compared to Hale. Plus I kind of have a fetish for female superheroes and Dudettes. 

But yes I know it's just a matter of taste. 

 

Oh forgot:  As for derpy faces... what derpy faces?

[von uber]

This too.

Can't stand Hale's voice acting (She's so monotone, and sounds utterly BORED reading her lines), or the derpy faces of femsheps, or the hideous soggy woodchip looking female hairstyles.

 

 

 

GET. OUT.

[Spectr61]

I think the thing people are most angry about isn't the fact that Bioware is sidestepping the terrible endings. They're angry because if Bioware hadn't messed up the endings of ME3 so badly and left the lore and universe in such a broken state, they wouldn't be forced to throw it all out and start over.
 
It's not the fact that they've moved on, it's the fact that it was the only option they had because they forced themselves into that position through their incompetent handling of the endings.
 
Had they not screwed up so badly, they could have moved on in a much more organic way, rather than the way they are now which feels like both a hail Mary and a copout.
 
The problem boils down to this: They didn't go to Andromeda because it was an exciting choice. They aren't going there because it makes sense or because it's the next logical step. They aren't going there because there was nothing left to explore in the Milky Way, physically or narratively. No, they went there because they broke the Milky Way as a setting so badly that they were screwed, so if they were going to continue the series, they HAD to move to a new galaxy. It's not organic. It feels forced and desperate, because that's exactly what it is. Grasping at straws and trying to make gold out of it. They didn't go there because it was an exciting choice, they went there because it was the ONLY choice.
 
If that doesn't encapsulate the scale of their blunder, nothing does.

+1

"shat in their own hat" - so to speak.

Let's hope their recovery is indeed worthy of the trilogy, else I fear we may all be setting ourselves up for some major disappointment.

[Kelwing]

Too little info on ME:A for me to like or be pissed about anything yet. Someone let me know when there are facts to go on. Until then back to SWTOR.

[Silvair]

Funny thing is that those who prefer fem!shep has the exact same argument but the other way around. Meer is just so... BORING compared to Hale. Plus I kind of have a fetish for female superheroes and Dudettes. 

But yes I know it's just a matter of taste. 

 

Oh forgot:  As for derpy faces... what derpy faces?

From a profile view they almost always seem to have a simpsons style overbite and forehead, so when I see Femshep from the side it just looks like this to me

 

The neck aint too far off of femshep, either.

 

 

 

GET. OUT.

Oh hey, it's Megamind's sister!

 

 

lol just teasing.

Seriously though even my own attempt at Femshep only came close to "passable".  No matter how many times I tried to make a femshep (MANY MANY MANY tries), this was the closest I could get to looking "Normal", so I'm just dealing with it to finally play a trilogy run as Femshep.

 

 

I dunno.  In comparison to my Male shep, I just am never satisfied with femsheps.

 

 

 

(remade shep from 360 on PC from memory.  Kinda proud I got it like 99% right from 3 year old memory of playing.  I think SOMETHINGS off, like maybe I used a different shade for the stubble, or mouth may be different, but otherwise spot on, and I grew to love this as my "canon" shepard)

 

Anyways, I don't like the face models for custom femshep (or default femshep), and I don't like Hale's performance, nor do I like the usable hairstyles (Although the NPCs can have cool female hair, which just bugs me even more.)

[N7Jamaican]

Out with the old, in with the new? As long as the old isn't retconned like Disney did to the majority of the Star Wars universe then I'll be happy.  

[Sion1138]

Out with the old, in with the new? As long as the old isn't retconned like Disney did to the majority of the Star Wars universe then I'll be happy.  

 

Haven't been following that. What did they do?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Haven't been following that. What did they do?

All the books, games, etc are now non-canon, or at least the ones during or after the movies. The only things that are canon are the six movies and two television series, The Clone Wars and Rebels. The new trilogy will also be canon. 

[N7Jamaican]

All the books, games, etc are now non-canon, or at least the ones during or after the movies. The only things that are canon are the six movies and two television series, The Clone Wars and Rebels. The new trilogy will also be canon. 

Well, the book with Tarkin is still Canon. But yeah 6 movies, 2 animated series and the 7th movie is what's considered canon.

[Silvair]

Out with the old, in with the new? As long as the old isn't retconned like Disney did to the majority of the Star Wars universe then I'll be happy.  

That was ridiculously stupid, and I opt to largely ignore it (Like New52), especially since they tried to announce it while an MMO is still going on, BASED on the SWEU.  As for as I'm concerned, its disneys nonsense like Rebels, that's noncanon (Seriously that shows right up there with the Ewoks cartoon for sheer stupidity)

[Sion1138]

All the books, games, etc are now non-canon, or at least the ones during or after the movies. The only things that are canon are the six movies and two television series, The Clone Wars and Rebels. The new trilogy will also be canon. 

 

Oh. Thank you.

 

I don't know how I feel about that to be completely honest.

 

One thing I did hear about is that they'll be establishing back-story in comic form, to tie into the films. I do hope that's hogwash.