1469 réponses à ce sujet

[Ashevajak]

Reported for personal attacks on Australians.

 

As an Australian, I encourage and support all attacks on other Australians.

 

There can only be one.

[rashie]

Reported for personal attacks on Australians.

Actually, that word refers to a genus of great apes that have been extinct for about 2 million years.

[Grieving Natashina]

I have to give the ME forums credit.  Some of the posters are great at creative insults.  

 

You guys make me laugh, I'll admit.   This has been quite the interesting conversation.  I don't think I've read the word "scrub" this much since I quit playing WoW a couple of years ago.  I am legitimately enjoying some of the history and philosophy chat though.  That had made the thread pretty worthwhile.  It's amazing what I learn on accident on the BSN, and at times for the better.  

 

Eh, here's a gif of an 8-Bit Version of a Reaper.  Enjoy.

[In Exile]

Hegelian dialectic.  Thesis-antithesis-synthesis.

 

Basically the Hegelian dialectic suggests a thesis (Organic life) that gives rise to a negative reaction or rebuttal (synthetic life) which is resolved via a process of reconciliation as a synthesis of the thesis and antithesis (green glowing eyes and happy endings for everyone).

 

Ah, I see it now. I never thought of it in those terms (not familiar with Hegel apart from his writings on the law). Thinking on it, there are at least two problems with how ME3 executes: (1) the series never actually establishes how the thesis gives rise to an anthesis properly defined, (2) the series does nothing to justify or set out the process of reconciliation. 

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I don't think I've read the word "scrub" this much since I quit playing WoW a couple of years ago.

 

In the ME 3 MP forums, the word "scrub" gets used in a way not unlike the Smurfs use the word "smurf."

 

There is nary a context in which we cannot find a way to use it.

[Ashevajak]

Ah, I see it now. I never thought of it in those terms (not familiar with Hegel apart from his writings on the law). Thinking on it, there are at least two problems with how ME3 executes: (1) the series never actually establishes how the thesis gives rise to an anthesis properly defined, (2) the series does nothing to justify or set out the process of reconciliation. 

 

To be honest, Hegel's apparent contribution to the Hegelian dialectic is a bit...suspect,but that's the name it's now stuck with.

 

And yes.  It almost seemed to come almost out of nowhere.  Retroactively you can look at the Geth-Quarian war, the "Metacon war", Project Overlord etc and similar hints, but they're never really made into series-defining issues and tropes, or linked back to the Reapers in any way.  So the sudden introduction of that reasoning, right at the end, feels incredibly contrived.

[Grieving Natashina]

In the ME 3 MP forums, the word "scrub" gets used in a way not unlike the Smurfs use the word "smurf."

 

There is nary a context in which we cannot find a way to use it.

So I've noticed.  

 

<shrug>  So long as folks are having fun, I honestly don't see what the big deal is.  The only reason why I can think of after a few months reading the ME forums as to why the rivalry is so bad is because of the original EMS requirements.  Sure, that would have made me upset, but I don't think I would have been on the forums over 2 years later flinging insults one way or the other.  

 

Some of the MP and SP people in this thread are the ones that recommended the games to me.  One of whom has been very vocal about disliking the ending to ME3, but isn't out bashing people that enjoy the game.  He's told me that he's happy for me that I ended up falling in love with the series, and is glad that I came around after EC/Citadel.  He can't touch the series again because of the pre-EC nonsense, but he's glad that I love it. 

 

Some of them I see in here that are MP players.  They also told me that the series was worthwhile and that I should try it for myself.  Since then, I've gotten Mark Meer's autograph and happily have a N7 hoodie in my coat closet.  Frankly, word-of-mouth as well as MP is what I think is keeping ME alive.  More people are enjoying this series and playing it, no matter the reason.  I think that should be the important part, not whether or not someone is supposedly intelligent/fast/or social enough to want to play MP.  Interestingly enough, the MP posters that recommended the series to me also aren't out constantly insulting people that prefer single player games.  Go figure.  

 

Weirdest thing I've gotten out of this:  Someone politely sent me a nice message telling me to try MP with them.  I have no interest, but I thanked them for the offer.  I do enjoy getting requests like that, so that wasn't the odd part.  I wouldn't be around the forums if I didn't enjoy meeting new people and geeking out with them.  Then they added in that I was "too nice for the SP crowd."  I was left genuinely confused by this.  Players are just players.  Some are jerks, some are anti-social, and some are nice and helpful.   While I'm usually very active on the forums, I know I'm not the only poster that prefers SP that could give two pigs and a flying pyjak about the MP vs SP debate.  I'm sure plenty of MP players are eating their popcorn while watching this too.

[Sylvius the Mad]

But it's also ridiculous and inconsisent with the genre convention.

While the rest of your post really makes me want to play the game to see for myself, I'm generally a big fan of messing with genre conventions.

Because some of them are stupid.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I'm sure plenty of MP players are eating their popcorn while watching this too.

 

That's more or less the entire point of this thread: Entertainment. ^^

[rashie]

 

I'm sure plenty of MP players are eating their popcorn while watching this too.

 

That's pretty much the point with this thread at times, there are more than a fair few people posting simply to troll this board.

 

[Grieving Natashina]

That's more or less the entire point of this thread: Entertainment. ^^

With some education.  Underneath some of the insults and mudslinging, there has been some good conversation going around.  I know the BSN is crazy sometimes, but I can honestly say that this isn't a stupid fanbase.  Okay, we all lose our heads sometimes and say silly or uneducated things, but this is overall an intelligent group of people.  I feel that way about the folks on my ignore list too, for the most part.

 

I've learned a lot on accident about history, philosophy, sexuality, society, science and other such topics since I've been active on the BSN/BF.  Tangential learning is the best kind of learning.  Anyhow, the smart outweighs the stupid on these forums, in my opinion.  However, stubbornness rules us all in the end.  

 

 

That's pretty much the point with this thread at times, there are more than a fair few people posting simply to troll this board. 

And occasionally, folks like me pointing out how kinda silly it all really is.  

[Ashevajak]

In the ME 3 MP forums, the word "scrub" gets used in a way not unlike the Smurfs use the word "smurf."

 

There is nary a context in which we cannot find a way to use it.

 

Scrub.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Scrub.

 

 

 

I couldn't decide between these two, so I used both.

[Paulomedi]

 

 

for your personal enjoyment.

[Lady Artifice]

I still don't understand the proper context for the word "scrub," but I wouldn't be surprised if it could apply to me. 

 

 

 

That's oddly cute. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

the series never actually establishes how the thesis gives rise to an anthesis properly defined

I don't think Hegel ever properly defined that either.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I still don't understand the proper context for the word "scrub," but I wouldn't be surprised if it could apply to me.

 

Basically... everyone is a scrub, was a scrub or will be a scrub. Anything but 100% perfect gameplay is scrubby. And "perfect" is judged by others, so you can never do it right.

 

You use a broken kit like AIU with incendiary Reegar? You're a scrub.

 

You die on wave 1? You're a scrub.

 

You nuke everything on extraction wave? You're a scrub.

 

You put a piercing mod on the Falcon? You're a scrub.

 

Etc.

 

Just found this and liked it:

 

Spoiler

 

[Steelcan]

can't believe I'm this late to the party

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I still don't understand the proper context for the word "scrub," but I wouldn't be surprised if it could apply to me.  

 

It does.

 

 

 

 

The way we use it, it pretty much applies to everyone.

[Hellamarian]

This is probably the greatest thread ever made in human history.

[Ashevajak]

I still don't understand the proper context for the word "scrub," but I wouldn't be surprised if it could apply to me. 

 

Jeremiah had a right idea.  A scrub is a guy that think he's fine and is Also known as a buster (buster, buster) Always talkin' about what he wants And just sits on his broke ass.

 

A scrub is a guy that can't get no love from me Hanging out the passenger side Of his best friend's ride Trying to holler at me

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Of course I was ninja'd. I wouldn't have it any other way.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Jeremiah had a right idea.

 

PEOPLE SHOULD ALWAYS BE SAYING THIS ALL OF THE TIME

[DaemionMoadrin]

Of course I was ninja'd. I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

 

Crazy typing skills, mate!

[AlanC9]

It's the genre convention. ME1 isn't a dark and gritty game that shows the real consequences of war and the reality of fighting an overwhelming foe. It's a B-movie plot about the ubermensch hero kicking ass and taking names. Like with any plot of that nature - see e.g. something like DA:O - the eldrich abomination is terrifying until it comes time to kill it, in which case you find the Macguffin of Villain-Slaying+1 and win out.

It's a bit like if Garraus, in one mission, just had his brains blown out all over a windshield with no warning and no follow up. That's realistic - that's how people die in war. But it's also ridiculous and inconsisent with the genre convention.

OK. I'm personally insensitive to this sort of thing because I like stuff that switches between genres. Orphan Black, for instance, where Katja and Alison are essentially on diffferent shows.

The problem isn't coming up with a motive for the reapers. It's coming up with a motive for the reapers that isn't pure, absolute and ireedemable evil. When your plot is Space Nazis who repeat their Final Solution to the Organic problem every 50,000 years, you're not writing about a morally complex problem with no easy solution and no obvious villains. When you ask the question "When is genocide, perpetrated by the means and technology more awful than what the Nazis used, OK?" you're not going to get a sane answer.

I don't think this is quite correct. Pure evil could have worked OK. The problem is coming up with something matching the facts that's both evil and rational. Space Nazis wouldn't have arranged for organics to develop to the point where they were a potential threat. They'd stomp them the moment they lifted out of their atmospheres, if not before.

As to your point, well, not exactly. "Organic" life, as I like to say, includes the intestinal fauna responsible for farts. But no one cares about saving the fart bacteria. What people really care about in these types of things is sapient life, and then you run into the problem of having to draw up a reason as to why this kind of sapient life is somehow more intrisically deserving of life than this other kind of sapient life, which ME3 doesn't do. ME3 wants to say that being made out of meat is special, without ever providing a reason as to why meat is special.

I think we were expected to think that meat is special because we're meat. I suppose you've seen me mention my proposed alternate Destroy Stargazer scene, where a couple of synthetics are seen praising Shepard for having the selflessness and vision to get out of the way of evolution.

The analogy to culling deer is just semantic; it's not an analytical parallel. (Edit: On second thought, it's not a semantic parallel either. Because the threat is hypothetical in the case of the reapers; it's "we'll exterminate organic life so that possible future synthetics don't end up exterminating organic life", but in the culling situation, inaction will lead to guaranteed extinction).

So the difference is that the worst case outcome is certain on one side, but only an unknown probability on the other. Note that the Catalyst doesn't talk like it's only a probability. I agree that he's wrong, but I don't find that significant.

Essentially, organic life has to be self-generating.

This strikes me as a fact of the MEU. If anything, the galaxy is getting more hospitable to life as the various cycles execute terraforming projects.

Second - and this ties in with the first problem - if organic life is self-generating, then there's how would it be "wiped out" even if an AI species killed of all the sapient organics it found? More organic life would just sprout somewhere else. The AI would have to be self-sustaining for eternity, and it would have to effectively go around exterminating all other forms of organic life until the end of time.

Well, the AIs could occupy the life-bearing planets and run them for their own purposes, precluding natural development. Though it's difficult to see why they'd want those planets. This made more sense in The Forge of God where a strict lightspeed limit made competition for resources more urgent.

Edit: I'm not sure this is the right thread for any of this.